I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. – M. Cole
The weather here in south central PA has been good to our garden. Enough rain has made everything grow like crazy. Thanks to our new camera, I have some nice photos of what is currently growing.
A variation of a carnation, also known as a pink.
Another of the variations on a carnation.
So many different colors of green in the ferns and hostas
white irises
Our roses
a small pink/orange rose called “Christopher Marlowe”
A white rose spattered in red.
A simple red rose
Some random photos of things in the garden
A hanging basket of fuschia
Leo, a relatively friendly feral cat
In western PA, a pipe flowing with water is a common sight. it’s our own version of a water feature
Convinced? Okay, then as I have asked, please do demonstrate how you know that “neither of you will put the old Dodge into gear.” We have shown your claims to be wrong with links and facts. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for your claims.
Let this poor gal, who supposedly has a “life without technology”, tell you how to solve your difficulties on how to find your very own comments on a page and remove yet one more excuse proffered by a theist.
Now, assuming you have a Windows based computer, there is a lovely ability to do a search. A combination of keys, control and F, will bring up a search box (Safari also uses this. And I believe Mac does something similar, but surely since anyone who knows less than you about technology is a coward and “without technology” you know this if you have a Mac). You can type any word in there and it will be found on a page that you are on. You can even use parts of words in case you might have forgotten the exact tense that you used. You can also type in your very own screen name and search for every post that you have made on a page because your screen name is on that page with every comment you made.
Congrats, Robin. An utterly meaningless set of words. What about this “Guy with an MA in Ed. Tech., Ed.D. C/I. working on the dissertation.”? And oh if I had a nickel for everyone who said that they were “working” on a dissertation. Hmmm, an appeal to authority? How nice.
Thought I would clarify the “poor gal” gender (since you had it wrong) and my ability technologically, since you got that insult so terribly wrong also. It was just an FYI for you. for your sake I hope you don’t carry.
“Thought I would clarify the “poor gal” gender (since you had it wrong) and my ability technologically, since you got that insult so terribly wrong also. It was just an FYI for you. for your sake I hope you don’t carry.”
Well, let’s look at what I said “Let this poor gal, who supposedly has a “life without technology”, tell you how to solve your difficulties on how to find your very own comments on a page and remove yet one more excuse proffered by a theist.” Now this is referring to me since you claimed that I had a “life without technology” when your post got shot to my spam folder. I then proceeded to tell you how your excuse about not being able to find your own posts to be ridiculous and to tell you how to solve your difficulties in finding your own post. Reading comprehension, it’s a great help.
Let’s see what you said, something that you now claim that I got the “insult so terribly wrong”. I do love when theists try to retcon what they said.
“She apparently has a life without technology. That “standard” setting discourages validating sources in conversation. Responsible, truthful blog owners disable that setting.
Citing your own works as validation for your own “facts” concerning a 4 year old event is another tactic that allow invented facts to stand uninvestigated. If you assertion is valid, cite a neutral reference that is respected by all parties.”
You also said this which got through with no problem. ““Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Coward.” You see, Robin, I have a very liberal post policy. I give you all of the rope you need to hang yourself.
So I had “poor gal” wrong? How does that work since I was referring to *myself*? Hmm, yep, boobs, vagina, I’m a gal. I was the person you reffered to in your insult trying to cover up how silly you looked when whining about your post not appearing immediately. I don’t think I got your little insult wrong at all. You wanted to claim that I had no technology in my life, trying to ignore John’s explanation, and it’s just one more claim from you which can always be counted on to be wrong. And oh I don’t need a gun, I can always take one off someone who has one. As my dear husband has said “I’ve never been so frightened that I needed a god or a gun.” I’m a very good shot, better with long arms than pistols, and so is my husband, thanks to the US Army. Always helps being a rural kid who grew up with guns. I am finding it very funny that you seem to be afraid of people acknowledging your attempts at insults and doing your best to run away from them. So “truthful and responsible”, eh?
it’s also nice to see utterly baseless claims that “Responsible truthful blog owners disable that setting.” Oh, so show this to be true, Robin. Hmmm, what would happen if I found a fellow Mormon’s blog that has the setting active? What if I could find that even your fellow Mormons have such things enabled? http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/06/08/council-of-fifty-minutes/#comment-331070 does exactly that. More than a link and the post vanishes. Are they not truthful or responsible bloggers? I guess so, Robin said that was the case. Or maybe the LDS doesn’t allow comments at all? Shucks, it seems so right here: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/blog/ Yep, a blog with *no* comments. They must be really untruthful and irresponsible.
It’s always so fun to watch a theist insist that only those who agree with him are “responsible and truthful” and still have no more evidence of this than for their gods.
“Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
And this quote is in reference to what? Ah yes, to make believe that you are right if someone shows that you are wrong. it’s hilarious to see that “Godds” typo. Now, let’s look at that quote applied to various people. Does this meant that Hitler was as “successful” as you are trying to claim to be? That’s the problem with clever little aphorisms, they can be applied to anyone, even if that application is less than appealing to the one using the aphorism.
This is all that a theist has, attempts to claim that since they have no evidence that means that they are somehow magically “right”. Unfortunately, the silliness of this claim can be shown by your own disbelief in other religions and similar silly claims. If a Muslim says that he has succeeded because you disbelieve in him and that he has been courage in keeping his beliefs, does that mean his religion is as true as yours? How about a Shintoist? A Wiccan? An atheist? 🙂
“Does this meant that Hitler was as “successful” as you are trying to claim to be? That’s the problem with clever little aphorisms, they can be applied to anyone, even if that application is less than appealing to the one using the aphorism.”
Sigh. Robin, you quoted something that said ““Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
Now, this is usually quoted by people who have failed but who want to pretend that they succeeded. It tries to redefine success, aka actually achieving something, by saying that anyone can “succeed” as long as they remained committed to their claims. It does not consider that these claims can be completely false and wrong. That’s the problem with simplistic little sayings, they can apply to situations that are less than palatable to the person using the quote. If “success” is defined by not what you accomplish, but by the opposition you’ve encountered and the committedness you had to an idea, then Hitler is just as successful as you are. He encountered the opposition of most of the world and remained committed to his ideals to the very end, to the point he committed suicide rather than being captured and tried for his crimes. Many religious people claim that they have “succeeded” because they have encountered people who can show their claims to be lies. You can remain as committed as you want to a lie but that will *never* make it true. Considering that you and no theist can show any evidence that your religion is true, this shows again and again that religions are nothing more than inventions of mankind, no more true than the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
And no, I’m not living on the Bundy ranch. Clive Bundy is a coward and a thief who tried to get away without paying for something he took. He’s a sad little man who is supported by more sad little men who need guns to feel big and strong and who often think that Hitler was a great guy, like Clive himself and his racist antics. Indeed, by the quote you used, Clive Bundy and his stupidity is very “successful” if defined by the silliness that Marden tried to claim.
Do you think Hitler and Bundy are “successful”? Why not if they have a lot of opponents who can show that they are wrong and that they are committed to their beliefs?
Hitler and Bundy do not figure into the quote. The presumption of the quote requires a foundation of integrity which includes honor to moral, ethical, and spiritual values and principles (1). If we have taken the time to know and live by such things, Bundy and Hitler are not brought into the conversation.
1. Killinger, B. A. (2010). Integrity: Doing the Right Thing for the Right Reason. McGill-Queen’s University Press. ISBN 9780773582804. Retrieved 2014-6-11.
Robin, you are the one who mentioned Clive Bundy in relation to your own quote after I pointed out that it fails miserably. You asked if I was on the Bundy ranch.
The presumption of the quote is the presumption of someone reading this quote who wants simple answers to complex problems and who wants to pretend that success isn’t actually succeeding. Now your quote from Dr. Killinger is a generic quote about integrity from her book and is directly from the Wikipedia article on integrity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity You might want to be more careful with your quotes because your addition to your claim about presumption makes it seem like Dr. Killinger is agreeing with you. You need to put quote around her words. Her entire quote is “Integrity is a personal choice, an uncompromising and predictably consistent commitment to honour moral, ethical, spiritual and artistic values and principles.” It is not limited to one set of such values or principles. Integrity is also not synonymous with beneficial or good.
Let’s look at the quote again. “Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
It says that success is not measured by actually accomplishing anything. Success, per you and Marden, is measured by the opposition *you* (this is the generic you) have encountered, e.g. acts and beliefs contrary to *yours*. So, we can say that anyone who encounters an act or belief contrary to theirs is “successful” per this quote. The quote goes onto say that success is also measured by how *you* have maintained the struggle against this opposition and the courage that *you* used to do this. Again, we can say that anyone who continually works against those who oppose him/her is also successful per this quote.
Again, there is no presumption that can be seen in the quote, it simple tries to redefine success for those who have failed. I do understand that you and others want to place your own presumptions on the quote because you want to pretend that you don’t have to actually succeed in anything as long as you can claim that your success is really how much opposition you got to your ideas and claims. It makes it very easy then to not acknowledge your failure. I also know that people who like this quote can’t stand when it is applied to people they don’t like.
Unfortunately for you, there is no reason to say that Hitler, Pol Pot, etc are not just as worthy as you to have this quote applied to them. You want to pretend that it is only *your* ethics, morals, etc that apply and theirs don’t. However, the quote does not specify what is believed in. Hitler encountered the acts and beliefs of millions that were contrary to his. This makes him successful per you and Marden. He had plenty of courage in maintaining the struggle against overwhelming odds, which also makes him successful per you and Marden. Every bigot can claim “success” because people will stand against him and he can claim he is “courageous” in standing firm in his beliefs. The quote applies to Hitler and Bundy as well as it can apply to you or me or any religion in the world. It depends on presupposition that one’s beliefs are true and that everyone else agrees with you.
So many Christians, and other theists, want to pretend that they are courageous and successful because people show them that they are wrong and they keep believing. It boils down to “If people say I’m wrong, I must be right.”which is simply silly. Matthew 5 and John 15, D&C 101, are great ones for that, trying to convince believers that they should not believe anyone but the religious master, that anyone who says that they are wrong are not to be believed. It’s like an adult saying that he is a better person than everyone else because he still keeps the faith in Santa Claus.
I do love your continued attempt to insult me, Robin. I do live with plenty of moral and ethical principles. Most, I’m guessing, are the same as yours. Claims that the sky is falling and that everyone but *you* is lacking moral, ethical and “spiritual” (and of course spiritual values of only one kind of religon), is nothing more than trying to scare people and of course drive up self-help book sales. Happily, reality shows that humans have indeed gotten better with their ethical values, that we don’t have slavery all over the place any more. That racist garbage is recognized for what it is. That religions and tribal nonsense are being seen as harmful when they try to say someone is better than someone else. We sure as heck aren’t perfect but we are a lot better than what we were.
Now, you may tell me how Hitler and Bundy don’t figure into the quote. Tell me why it can’t apply to them considering that the quote specifies no value set.
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Club Schadenfreude 
Ah Spring! Pray for us, we’re heading into winter down here 😦
BTW, awesome reply to Robin. I’m starting to suspect he’s just a brilliant troll.
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Heh. 🙂 Well, from what he’s written on my blog comments, he’s not so brilliant. He could be a heck of a Poe but I’m not betting that way.
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I’m quite convinced that neither of you will put the old Dodge into gear.
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Convinced? Okay, then as I have asked, please do demonstrate how you know that “neither of you will put the old Dodge into gear.” We have shown your claims to be wrong with links and facts. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for your claims.
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A seminal moment…
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A seminal moment in showing how theists make false claims and are unable to answer questions put to them? Nah, that happens all of the time.
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Brilliant in the deception. I’m probably wrong, but when you encounter “Robins” our brains try all sorts of inventive ways to explain their oddity 😉
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…Not to mention trying to navigate through the river of comments to find my comments….
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Can be difficult, but to be fair, the river is only this deep, and this wide, because of your fine dredging work 😉
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Poor thing. 😀
Let this poor gal, who supposedly has a “life without technology”, tell you how to solve your difficulties on how to find your very own comments on a page and remove yet one more excuse proffered by a theist.
Now, assuming you have a Windows based computer, there is a lovely ability to do a search. A combination of keys, control and F, will bring up a search box (Safari also uses this. And I believe Mac does something similar, but surely since anyone who knows less than you about technology is a coward and “without technology” you know this if you have a Mac). You can type any word in there and it will be found on a page that you are on. You can even use parts of words in case you might have forgotten the exact tense that you used. You can also type in your very own screen name and search for every post that you have made on a page because your screen name is on that page with every comment you made.
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Guy with an MA in Ed. Tech., Ed.D. C/I. working on the dissertation.
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Congrats, Robin. An utterly meaningless set of words. What about this “Guy with an MA in Ed. Tech., Ed.D. C/I. working on the dissertation.”? And oh if I had a nickel for everyone who said that they were “working” on a dissertation. Hmmm, an appeal to authority? How nice.
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Thought I would clarify the “poor gal” gender (since you had it wrong) and my ability technologically, since you got that insult so terribly wrong also. It was just an FYI for you. for your sake I hope you don’t carry.
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“Thought I would clarify the “poor gal” gender (since you had it wrong) and my ability technologically, since you got that insult so terribly wrong also. It was just an FYI for you. for your sake I hope you don’t carry.”
Well, let’s look at what I said “Let this poor gal, who supposedly has a “life without technology”, tell you how to solve your difficulties on how to find your very own comments on a page and remove yet one more excuse proffered by a theist.” Now this is referring to me since you claimed that I had a “life without technology” when your post got shot to my spam folder. I then proceeded to tell you how your excuse about not being able to find your own posts to be ridiculous and to tell you how to solve your difficulties in finding your own post. Reading comprehension, it’s a great help.
Let’s see what you said, something that you now claim that I got the “insult so terribly wrong”. I do love when theists try to retcon what they said.
“She apparently has a life without technology. That “standard” setting discourages validating sources in conversation. Responsible, truthful blog owners disable that setting.
Citing your own works as validation for your own “facts” concerning a 4 year old event is another tactic that allow invented facts to stand uninvestigated. If you assertion is valid, cite a neutral reference that is respected by all parties.”
You also said this which got through with no problem. ““Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Coward.” You see, Robin, I have a very liberal post policy. I give you all of the rope you need to hang yourself.
So I had “poor gal” wrong? How does that work since I was referring to *myself*? Hmm, yep, boobs, vagina, I’m a gal. I was the person you reffered to in your insult trying to cover up how silly you looked when whining about your post not appearing immediately. I don’t think I got your little insult wrong at all. You wanted to claim that I had no technology in my life, trying to ignore John’s explanation, and it’s just one more claim from you which can always be counted on to be wrong. And oh I don’t need a gun, I can always take one off someone who has one. As my dear husband has said “I’ve never been so frightened that I needed a god or a gun.” I’m a very good shot, better with long arms than pistols, and so is my husband, thanks to the US Army. Always helps being a rural kid who grew up with guns. I am finding it very funny that you seem to be afraid of people acknowledging your attempts at insults and doing your best to run away from them. So “truthful and responsible”, eh?
it’s also nice to see utterly baseless claims that “Responsible truthful blog owners disable that setting.” Oh, so show this to be true, Robin. Hmmm, what would happen if I found a fellow Mormon’s blog that has the setting active? What if I could find that even your fellow Mormons have such things enabled? http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/06/08/council-of-fifty-minutes/#comment-331070 does exactly that. More than a link and the post vanishes. Are they not truthful or responsible bloggers? I guess so, Robin said that was the case. Or maybe the LDS doesn’t allow comments at all? Shucks, it seems so right here: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/blog/ Yep, a blog with *no* comments. They must be really untruthful and irresponsible.
It’s always so fun to watch a theist insist that only those who agree with him are “responsible and truthful” and still have no more evidence of this than for their gods.
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“Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
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And this quote is in reference to what? Ah yes, to make believe that you are right if someone shows that you are wrong. it’s hilarious to see that “Godds” typo. Now, let’s look at that quote applied to various people. Does this meant that Hitler was as “successful” as you are trying to claim to be? That’s the problem with clever little aphorisms, they can be applied to anyone, even if that application is less than appealing to the one using the aphorism.
This is all that a theist has, attempts to claim that since they have no evidence that means that they are somehow magically “right”. Unfortunately, the silliness of this claim can be shown by your own disbelief in other religions and similar silly claims. If a Muslim says that he has succeeded because you disbelieve in him and that he has been courage in keeping his beliefs, does that mean his religion is as true as yours? How about a Shintoist? A Wiccan? An atheist? 🙂
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wow. I like the water feature 😛
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Thanks. We love it. it reminds us of where we grew up.
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“Does this meant that Hitler was as “successful” as you are trying to claim to be? That’s the problem with clever little aphorisms, they can be applied to anyone, even if that application is less than appealing to the one using the aphorism.”
HUH? You living on the Bundy Ranch? 🙂
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Sigh. Robin, you quoted something that said ““Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
Now, this is usually quoted by people who have failed but who want to pretend that they succeeded. It tries to redefine success, aka actually achieving something, by saying that anyone can “succeed” as long as they remained committed to their claims. It does not consider that these claims can be completely false and wrong. That’s the problem with simplistic little sayings, they can apply to situations that are less than palatable to the person using the quote. If “success” is defined by not what you accomplish, but by the opposition you’ve encountered and the committedness you had to an idea, then Hitler is just as successful as you are. He encountered the opposition of most of the world and remained committed to his ideals to the very end, to the point he committed suicide rather than being captured and tried for his crimes. Many religious people claim that they have “succeeded” because they have encountered people who can show their claims to be lies. You can remain as committed as you want to a lie but that will *never* make it true. Considering that you and no theist can show any evidence that your religion is true, this shows again and again that religions are nothing more than inventions of mankind, no more true than the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
And no, I’m not living on the Bundy ranch. Clive Bundy is a coward and a thief who tried to get away without paying for something he took. He’s a sad little man who is supported by more sad little men who need guns to feel big and strong and who often think that Hitler was a great guy, like Clive himself and his racist antics. Indeed, by the quote you used, Clive Bundy and his stupidity is very “successful” if defined by the silliness that Marden tried to claim.
Do you think Hitler and Bundy are “successful”? Why not if they have a lot of opponents who can show that they are wrong and that they are committed to their beliefs?
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Hitler and Bundy do not figure into the quote. The presumption of the quote requires a foundation of integrity which includes honor to moral, ethical, and spiritual values and principles (1). If we have taken the time to know and live by such things, Bundy and Hitler are not brought into the conversation.
1. Killinger, B. A. (2010). Integrity: Doing the Right Thing for the Right Reason. McGill-Queen’s University Press. ISBN 9780773582804. Retrieved 2014-6-11.
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Robin, you are the one who mentioned Clive Bundy in relation to your own quote after I pointed out that it fails miserably. You asked if I was on the Bundy ranch.
The presumption of the quote is the presumption of someone reading this quote who wants simple answers to complex problems and who wants to pretend that success isn’t actually succeeding. Now your quote from Dr. Killinger is a generic quote about integrity from her book and is directly from the Wikipedia article on integrity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity You might want to be more careful with your quotes because your addition to your claim about presumption makes it seem like Dr. Killinger is agreeing with you. You need to put quote around her words. Her entire quote is “Integrity is a personal choice, an uncompromising and predictably consistent commitment to honour moral, ethical, spiritual and artistic values and principles.” It is not limited to one set of such values or principles. Integrity is also not synonymous with beneficial or good.
Let’s look at the quote again. “Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming Godds.”Orison Swett Marden
It says that success is not measured by actually accomplishing anything. Success, per you and Marden, is measured by the opposition *you* (this is the generic you) have encountered, e.g. acts and beliefs contrary to *yours*. So, we can say that anyone who encounters an act or belief contrary to theirs is “successful” per this quote. The quote goes onto say that success is also measured by how *you* have maintained the struggle against this opposition and the courage that *you* used to do this. Again, we can say that anyone who continually works against those who oppose him/her is also successful per this quote.
Again, there is no presumption that can be seen in the quote, it simple tries to redefine success for those who have failed. I do understand that you and others want to place your own presumptions on the quote because you want to pretend that you don’t have to actually succeed in anything as long as you can claim that your success is really how much opposition you got to your ideas and claims. It makes it very easy then to not acknowledge your failure. I also know that people who like this quote can’t stand when it is applied to people they don’t like.
Unfortunately for you, there is no reason to say that Hitler, Pol Pot, etc are not just as worthy as you to have this quote applied to them. You want to pretend that it is only *your* ethics, morals, etc that apply and theirs don’t. However, the quote does not specify what is believed in. Hitler encountered the acts and beliefs of millions that were contrary to his. This makes him successful per you and Marden. He had plenty of courage in maintaining the struggle against overwhelming odds, which also makes him successful per you and Marden. Every bigot can claim “success” because people will stand against him and he can claim he is “courageous” in standing firm in his beliefs. The quote applies to Hitler and Bundy as well as it can apply to you or me or any religion in the world. It depends on presupposition that one’s beliefs are true and that everyone else agrees with you.
So many Christians, and other theists, want to pretend that they are courageous and successful because people show them that they are wrong and they keep believing. It boils down to “If people say I’m wrong, I must be right.”which is simply silly. Matthew 5 and John 15, D&C 101, are great ones for that, trying to convince believers that they should not believe anyone but the religious master, that anyone who says that they are wrong are not to be believed. It’s like an adult saying that he is a better person than everyone else because he still keeps the faith in Santa Claus.
I do love your continued attempt to insult me, Robin. I do live with plenty of moral and ethical principles. Most, I’m guessing, are the same as yours. Claims that the sky is falling and that everyone but *you* is lacking moral, ethical and “spiritual” (and of course spiritual values of only one kind of religon), is nothing more than trying to scare people and of course drive up self-help book sales. Happily, reality shows that humans have indeed gotten better with their ethical values, that we don’t have slavery all over the place any more. That racist garbage is recognized for what it is. That religions and tribal nonsense are being seen as harmful when they try to say someone is better than someone else. We sure as heck aren’t perfect but we are a lot better than what we were.
Now, you may tell me how Hitler and Bundy don’t figure into the quote. Tell me why it can’t apply to them considering that the quote specifies no value set.
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