Not So Polite Dinner Conversation: the problem of suffering and how a Christian excuses his god

not so polite dinner conversation, Uncategorized 6 Minutes

A fellow who I’ve crossed swords with before has listed 7 reasons why his god, one of the versions of the Christian one, isn’t a bastard for allowing suffering in this world. I asked him about how heaven fits into all of this and it quickly became an excuse fest that this god “could” create a world without suffering, but didn’t for some mysterious reason. It also ended up in a rather strange claim that there are “classes” of angels, which means rank is important to a supposedly omniscient/omnipotent/benevolent god. Where is that lovely equality that so many Christians claim? I suspect the answer would be that the angels are “satisfied” with their position. Seems I’ve heard that argument somewhere else….

Where is an omnipotent god that can create a world without suffering and with free will? Why is this god now limited? As for my opponent’s claims that it is not immoral to create a world with the possibility of suffering, he has one problem: the question is missing something. What the question should be: Is it immoral to create a world where it is guaranteed, perhaps not for a certain individual, but for someone else? Shall we not care what happens to our fellows? As I have observed before, Christianity is a religion based on selfishness. Everyone is out for his own place in heaven.

BTW, there is nothing new here in content. If you are a frequent reader, you’ll see the same points again.

  1. Free will necessitates the possibility of suffering.

The first problem here is that the bible doesn’t support free will. As soon as the bible claims that everything is this god’s will and plan, free will ends. As soon as this god interferes with any human action, free will ends.

He also tries to claim that suffering is “always a possibility” if free will exists. Nothing supports this either. As for refusing to follow this god’s directives, do tell what those directives are since Christians do not agree on what their god wants. If they have no idea what this god wants, then there is no way to “cause unnecessary suffering” by not doing something.

  1. God’s plan of redemption and glory far outweigh all suffering.

A baseless assumption since there is no evidence of this god nor that any plan that it might have exists. This is to make a promise that never can be checked out, something quite necessary for a charlatan. The fraud selling his miracle elixir to a townsfolk is never around to be held accountable if the liquid doesn’t do what is promised.

My opponent tries to claim that some suffering results in improvement, which is true for a few things. The problem is when the suffering serves no purpose at all. Recently, a poor fellow’s 5 month old baby died of brain cancer. To try to claim that the suffering was beneficial is simply a sycophant’s excuse for his tyrant. The reward is never always greater.

“God’s promised eternal glory is more than enough to inspire faithful, joyful perseverance.” A promised never fulfilled is worthless. And since this promise is also accompanied with threats of eternal torture, it is nothing more than the actions of an abuser.

  1. God’s just judgement will right all wrongs.

Another baseless claim and we can see from the bible, that justice is not important to this god at all. Justice is based on fairness, equalness in treatment. This god has no problem at all in harming humans for the actions of others. There is nothing “just” about killing a child for the actions of its parents, nor damning an entire species for the supposed actions of two of them. If we are held accountable for things we cannot change, then free will is again destroyed.

Our Christian tries to claim that this god somehow takes into account what we could/would have done, and nothing in the bible supports that invented bit of nonsense. This was made up in order to invent a new Christian god, one that isn’t the vicious one in the bible. If this bit of nonsense were the case, it makes no sense for this god to hold all humans responsible for “original sin”, since if it takes other realities into account, it would be negated for everyone.

He also tries the claim that suffering can “create space for greatness” aka “builds character”. Nothing shows that this is needed, especially in the bible where Job got no better from being abused by this god.

  1. Suffering is not evil in itself and can actually be a means for good.

Hmmm, tell that to the 6 million+ who died in the Holocaust. Do they say how great it was to suffer and they would have preferred it not be “easy”?

No.

And if suffering is so great, again, how does heaven fit into this apologetic excuse? Why should a child starve in some country and I have no problem in gorging myself to repletion? Per our Chrsitians argument, the child should be happy for the misery.

They aren’t. What we have is an apologetic made up by a first world Christian who wants for nothing, and piously tells others how they should be happy to suffer. Gee, it must be god’s plan for this to happen, and then our Christian doesn’t have to feel responsible.

  1. Suffering teaches important lesson.

See the argument against this pious bullshit above. That a god has to harm people to teach others is nothing more than a tyrant making an “example” of some people to keep the others in line. To say that this god makes harm happen so we are dependent on it shows this god to be no more than an abusive parent or spouse.

This argument is where the Christian thinks he is so important that other people deserve to be harmed for his benefit. Someone can starve to death so he can learn compassion. Someone can be killed by terrorists so he can learn to not be complacent.

Again, the selfishness inherent in the religion rises again.

  1. God shared in the suffering of his creation.

Actually, no it didn’t, not even per the bible. At best, this god had an uncomfortable weekend when it decided it needed to have itself killed by a blood sacrifice by torture to make itself happy.

There was no loss, and per the gospel of John, not even a moment of fear. I do love the hilarious list of what this imaginary character went through. Poverty? No. Shame? No. Ridcule? Per the bible, he didn’t care. Physical pain and torture? Depends on what gospel you read. Death? Nope, he didn’t die at all, but just kept on living. Difficult travel? Nope, nothing supports that even in the bible. Isolation? Nope. Abandonment? Again, depends on what gospel you read. Rejection? Didn’t care. Danger? He managed to get out of situations by just disappearing. Emotional stress? Again, which gospel? Celibacy? Per the bible, this is the best thing to do, so no suffering presented. Ignorance? Well, that’s not limited to this god or ol’ JC, and again, rather hard to be ignorant if it is omniscient. Homelessness? Not at all, he was always welcomed unlike most homeless now. The struggles of fame? Depends on what story the Chrsitian wants to claim: either everyone knew ol’ JC or no one did. The loss of a loved one? He just raised them from the dead, rather impossible for humans. Submiting of one’s will to God the father? He is this god and again, per John, no problem with this at all.
This god stepped into nothing at all and deserves no respect for a blood sacrifice by torture that was needed by it because its failure in Eden.

  1. God could morally create an almost limitless number of possible worlds, this is just one of them.

Rather curious that a Christian would try the multiverse hypothesis to try to claim that it’s okay that this god causes suffering here because maybe in the next one over, it’s just fine. Doesn’t do much for the person suffering from intractable pain here. Immorality doesn’t change if you happen to do a benevolent things somewhere else. Hitler may have liked dogs, but he still was an immoral bastard.

It ends with the Christian being aghast that someone might look at suffering “negatively”. Yep, we should all just ignore how this god fails so we can keep thinking we get our magic presents.

Sorry, I’m not that immoral. If a human tried offering any of the above excuses for malevolent actions, they would be laughed at and scorned. That such excuses are okay for a god shows how followers don’t question tyrants, either imaginary or real.

For more on the problem of suffering, John Loftus has compiled a new book “God and Horrendous Suffering”. It’s a little salty in price, though I’ll probably get it, but you can see some of the arguments on his website, Debunking Christianity.





Published by clubschadenfreude

intelligent, female, atheist, science fiction fan, great cook, excellent alewife, cat lover

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81 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation: the problem of suffering and how a Christian excuses his god”

  2. 1. Free will necessitates the possibility of suffering.

    That one is easily refuted under their own system. Is there suffering in Heaven? Every christian I have talked to will say “no’. Well, is there free will in heaven? If the answer is “yes” then their god is perfectly capable of creating a system that has both free will and no suffering. And if the answer is “no”, then their god is taking away a part of each person’s mind when they enter heaven, so how are they still themselves? A Heaven full of arse-kissing robots would not be heavenly at all.

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    1. I do not believe that you can have “free will” with an omniscient, all-knowing god. If god knows everything, which I’ve been hearing since a Catholic student in Brooklyn, NY, everything your thinking, even dreaming, and certainly your actions before you even are them, then I do see how you can have free will. He knows everything you’re going to say before you even say it, precludes the concept of free will.

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      2. There is no “free will concept beyond mortals”. This is just more of your vague nonsense, invented to excuse your god’s failure.

        As usual, we have a Christian, Arnold, who has invented his own version, and can’t even get his fellow Christians to agree with him.

        This is from his blog “Sins–war, genocide, slavery, rape–reveal the behaviors of men without God.”

        funny how his god required all of these and approved of them.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. God shared in the suffering of his creation
    But in the case of god dying, we are told he knew he would be back to partying with his friends in 3 days which is unlike the suffering all of us go through. We see no end nor benefit in our suffering.

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  5. To me, the Bible’s ambiguity invites serious doubts about its accuracy and relevance. And no wonder–it’s written by sinners who believed in one God. Step 1 is believe, step 2, turn. Therefore, Jesus Christ.

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      6. Arnold, there is no “christ”, other than an imaginary character that each christian invents in their own image in order to feel special. It’s very intoxicating to pretend that some magical being agrees with you and only you.

        From reading the bible, I see it presents several different “christs” in the set of contradictory stories. We have the human christ that weeps in Gesthemane, one that cares about all humans, one that says that anyone who doesn’t worship it should be brought before it and slaughtered, etc. There are thousands of different Christianities, all contradicting each other.

        you are indeed all “schumcks” and frauds, not one of you able to do the things promised to any true believer in the bible.

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    2. Arnold, the fact that the Bible references gods at all is enough to put it solidly into “fiction” territory for me.

      As for Jesus, was he a real person? Maybe. Did he perform the miracles attributed to him? I doubt that very much. Did he come back from the dead? No, I don’t think so. Did he have a special message? Nothing that hadn’t already been said multiple times by various philosophers and religious figures.

      The main draw of the character seems to be an appeal to emotion, commiserating with the suffering Jesus . You don’t need a real person for that; it happens all the time in fiction.

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      1. I know I know I know!
        However.
        The protagonist has flesh. And blood. And a spirit. I see him the same way I see you. And I believe he took responsibility for this mess. In the cross.
        To me, I know the story’s true–to you it’s fiction. And the ending hangs in the balance.
        Thanks for your respectful reply.

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      2. there is no evidence that either Jesus Christ, Son of God or a possible delusional rabbi aka “historical Jesus” existed. So, no “flesh” or “blood” or “spirit”.

        There is no mess to take responsbility for, and no sacrifice at all. Sacrifice requires loss, which is notably missing from the jesus story.

        Since you have no evidence for your nonsense, just like any theist, you cannot show your myths true. It remains fiction and there is no magical ending, just the sadistic fantasies of sad little people who need to pretend that anyone who disagrees with them will be eternally punished for it.

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      4. And there we go, ladies and gentlemen. Arnold has admitted that he has nothing to support his claims: “Evidence schmevidence- God is outside the box.”. The claim of “god is outside the box” is a typical theist bit of nonsense, very much in line with Sagan’s dragon in the garage that is claimed to exist but has no attributes to be noticed.

        Here’s a nice article on why theists find they need this nonsense: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage

        it’d be so nice if these silly Christians could agree on what lies they want to tell to excuse their god’s failure. So many claim that there is plenty of evidence, which they can’t produce, and then we have Christians like Arnold claiming that they are liars.

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      7. Okay — then that interaction would create and leave evidence.

        Club is perfectly correct to ask you for this evidence… without you trying to hide your god away.

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      9. And yet we have this god doing parlour tricks on demand to convince people of his existence. The altar challenge detailed in 1Kings is a veritable song and dance routine, complete with props and a sceptical audience.

        Seems you don’t quite know your bible… or your god.

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      12. Indeed, he’s both hidden AND revealed. Luke 10:

        “.. you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.”

        Awkward?

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      13. “Indeed, he’s both hidden AND revealed. Luke 10:

        “.. you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.”

        Awkward?”

        Unsurprisingly, Arnold now changes what he’s claimed before: ““God requires faith- he hides himself. And that irks people.””

        So Arnold, you lie. If this god supposedly hides itself because it doesn’t want to “force” belief, then it can’t decide to show itself. Luke 10 is a variant of Matthew 13, and again shows how Christians fail and how this god has nothing to do with free will.

        “21 At that same hour Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. 22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.””

        You repeatedly make false claims about what the bible says, Arnold. You claim that this god somehow can’t affect the world, except though Jesus, but funny how it had no problem in the old testament. You try to claim that this god must remain hidden, but it doesn’t do that at all, with this character JC saying that miracles are directly from this god and are to show that this god exists. So much for this hiddenness argument.

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      15. “God knows we like a good story, and riddle. See Jesus’ parables.”

        hmmm, and yet more made up nonsense from the desperate Christian. Again,

        Now, why did Jesus use parables? Per the character himself, he used them to prevent people from understanding so they couldn’t believe him. Matthew 13 is quite clear on this, that this god/jesus has decided to let only certain people be able to accept it and then damn the rest for no fault of their own.

        “10 Then the disciples came and asked him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered, “To you it has been given to know the secrets[b] of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 13 The reason I speak to them in parables is that ‘seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand.’ 14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah that says:‘You will indeed listen, but never understand, and you will indeed look, but never perceive.15 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and their ears are hard of hearing, and they have shut their eyes; so that they might not look with their eyes, and listen with their ears, and understand with their heart and turn—and I would heal them.’”

        So much for “free will” and so much for your invented claim to excuse your god.

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      16. I don’t know about “desperate Christian,” however, I am obsessed with the Lord Jesus. All wisdom is in him (including the silly free-will issue).

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      17. Arnold, it’s rather amusing that you now find the issue about “free will” to be “silly” since your can’t show it to be true nor can you show any of your claims to be true.

        You are indeed obsessed with your religion; just like any cultist. You need to pretend some imaginary being agrees with you so you can pretend your opinions are “wise”.

        They aren’t.

        It is indeed Christmas Eve, a date that has nothing to do with your religion, other than show that it has no problem in stealing holidays of other religions to try to get more members. Nothing like promising bread and circuses to the masses to get approval. it’s also the eve of the official recognization of the cult of Sol Invictus by the Romans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

        Gee, that god must be real too!

        addendum:

        Funny how early Christians just took what they wanted from other religions:

        “But night fears the light, and hiding itself in terror, gives place to the day of the Lord. Sleepless light is now over all, and the west has given credence to the east. For this was the end of the new creation. For the Sun of Righteousness, who drives His chariot over all, pervades equally all humanity, like His Father, who makes His sun to rise on all men, and distils on them the dew of the truth. He has changed sunset into sunrise, and through the cross brought death to life; and having wrenched man from destruction, He has raised him to the skies, transplanting mortality into immortality, and translating earth to heaven — He, the husbandman of God,”

        https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/020811.htm

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      20. “God requires faith- he hides himself. And that irks people.”

        Funny how it didn’t feel the need to do so per your bible, Arnold. And funny how Christians themselves don’t agree on this “hiddeness”. We get claims all of the time about this god doing miracles, etc.

        So, which Christians are lying, Arnold?

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      22. “I’ve already told you that we’re all frauds. “No one is good, except God.””

        Yep, you’ve repeated this garbage several times. You somehow think it is soemthing you can use as an excuse on why you are a complete failure when it comes to being a christian. Alas, for you, your bible has no problem in promising that humans, supposedly not “good”, can do all sorts of magic if you just believe in the right way.

        You have a problem, Arnold. Are you claiming your bible is wrong?

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      24. “The Bible, right or wrong, points to Christ- he’s my claim.”

        ROFL. Oh my. so if the bible is wrong, then your claim is a lie. How nice. And which version of this christ, Arnold?

        It’s grand to see you have absolutely nothing to support your claims, Arnold. Every single one of them you’ve made here has been shown to not even be supported in your bible much less in reality. You are a perfect example of how Christianity is just humans making things up in their image.

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      28. “Have you not read that Jesus Christ is ‘the beginning and end, Alpha and Omega, first and last?””

        Yep, and it’s completely baseless bullshit. I’ve also read that Mohammed is the one true prophet and it’s just as much bullshit as Christian claims.

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  6. You believing other than me doesn’t name you a liar. People have opinions. Notwithstanding, to me “outside the box” infers “above and beyond you and me,” but by revelation. In Jesus Christ, God reveals. That’s my opinion, and I’m acting on it.

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    1. yep, you are right, simple disagreement doesn’t make someone a liar. Making false claims makes you a liar.

      Nothing new about the claim of some god “above and beyond you and me”. Alas, you can’t show this to be the case. It’s just your imaginary friend, and worth no more consideration than that.

      Every Christian claims that their god reveals the “truth” to them. Funny how none of you can show that your version is the right one, all contradicting each other with your lies. It’s nothing shocking that none of you can do what your bible has JC promising every true believer in him can do. You are all frauds.

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      2. yep, and yet one more Christian who has either no idea what his bible says, or is trying very hard to pretend it doesn’t say what it does.

        Mark 16, John 14 and james 5. Do read those chapters and then we can talk.

        Now cue the excuses on why poor Arnold can’t do what is promised.

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      3. You refer to asking anything, and receiving it, in his name? I do when I’m in him, in his will. For example, I love my church family, and help bear their burdens.
        Jesus said, “Love one another.” And I do. I’m not big on hugs, but I know how to love because I ask- in his name. In him. He demands it.

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      4. That’s one of the instances I am referring to, John 14. You have two more to make excuses for.

        As you admit, John 14 says that asking for *anything* will be answered. There is not one word about it having to be in this god’s will. You’ve added that. It’s always fun when a Christian claims that prayers are only answered if they are what this god would do anyway. It makes prayer completely worthless and free will impossible.

        Most humans have no problem helping their families, no god needed. And no god needed to love at all. It’s always rather pathetic when a Christian thinks that he and those who agree with him are the only ones who love.

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      5. ‘In my name’ is, ‘my Father’s will’ is, ‘in the Spirit:’ the good news is that ‘Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.’ My flesh.

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      6. I should preface with John 3, ‘You must be born again.’ Born of God, born sons and daughters of God. The cross is God’s order, to heap sin and death on the unblemished son of God. On himself.

        And bury him. And raise him up so that by faith you and I can receive his selfsame Spirit. Christians do have differing opinions but the new birth is God’s claim: “I will put my spirit within you.”

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      7. Arnold, you are so bible-indoctrinated that it boggles my mind! In fact, you are so entrenched in it that you can’t even speak plain English! I can only assume that somewhere along the way you were told/taught that “God’s Word” has power … so you think by speaking “scripture-talk,” you will reach some poor lost unfortunate soul. SMH

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      8. And now Arnold, you try to lie again. “In my name” does not mean “by god’s will”. It’s always great fun to see how Chrsitians must try to change the meaning of words to excuse their god’s, and their, failure again.

        As for being “born again”, funny how Christians don’t agree on what that means, nor who is actually born again. You all are sure that you are the TrueChristians(tm), and again, not one of you can do what the bible has JC promise. Unsurprisingly, you desperately try to ignore what Mark 16 and James 5 say. Why is that, Arnold?

        Why can’t you or any other Christian do any of these things?

        “17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes in their hands,[e] and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”” Mark 16

        “13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5

        You’ll note that this god’s will isn’t mentioned at all for Christians to be able to do these things. So your prayers aren’t powerful or effective.

        You are a fraud.

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      9. Everyone’s a fraud! Jesus said, “There is only One who is good.” Cleaning up doesn’t cut it- it’s still doing without God. ‘Everyone that hates me loves death.’ Proverbs 8

        ‘When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, I will return unto my house whence I came out.’ Luke 11

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      10. Yep, your ignorant bible claims that there is only one person that is good. Alas, Christians can’t agree on what “good” is.

        Luke 11 is a lovely one. It has a Jesus who is evidently too stupid to know that the miracles he does are signs and who makes supposed prophecies that never happen, incoherent nonsense about the “queen of the south”. I find the whole nonsense about demons rather funny since it shows that even ol’ JC can’t keep evil spirits out. So much for an omnipotent god. Unsurpsingly, you didn’t finish the paragraph from Luke 11 you quoted. Here is it in the entirety: “14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute; when the demon had gone out, the one who had been mute spoke, and the crowds were amazed. 15 But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.” 16 Others, to test him, kept demanding from him a sign from heaven. 17 But he knew what they were thinking and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself becomes a desert, and house falls on house. 18 If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? —for you say that I cast out the demons by Beelzebul. 19 Now if I cast out the demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your exorcists[g] cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out the demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his castle, his property is safe. 22 But when one stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his plunder. 23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

        24 “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it wanders through waterless regions looking for a resting place, but not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ 25 When it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. 26 Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and live there; and the last state of that person is worse than the first.”

        Sucks to be worse off after Jesus than before.

        Luke 11 is also a great one for this failed promise “9 “So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for a fish, will give a snake instead of a fish? 12 Or if the child asks for an egg, will give a scorpion? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

        hmmm, so again we see that this god promises to give anything asked for, not giving something else instead, as modern Christian try to claim in order to excuse their god. It promises a quick answer to prayer, not the ‘wait’ excuse given by Christians. The door opens immediately, not waiting years as Christians will try to claim to excuse their god.

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      11. ‘Dissolution by analysis;’ you’re on an ancient path, reasoning the LORD (Jesus Christ), out of the picture.

        Remember Cain in Genesis 4:

        13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. 16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

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      12. Yep, people have been showing that myths are complete nonsense for quite a long time.

        The story of cain is quite an interesting one, and no, that set of verses shows no “dissolution by analysis”. It’s a moronic tale about a god that couldn’t make what it wanted known, and shows pointless preference for one sacrifice over another, just like any incompetent parent. It knew what would happen and did it anyway.

        we also have the stupidity in the bible where there are other humans who have nothing to do with Eden despite the claim that the only humans around were Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel. Cain picks up a wife somewhere. Christians of course have to make up all sorts of excuses for how *that* happened, to excuse the incompetent story tellers. And of course, their arguments all contradict each other.

        poof goes truth again

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    1. Way too many examples. Besides, I’m quite sure that to YOU they make perfect sense so it’s understandable why you’re puzzled that others would think you’re speaking gobbledy-gook.

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    2. Arnold, your claims are the typical ones that a Christain invents, and amusingly all contradicting the claims of other Christians. You all insist that your version of Christianity is the only real one. You think that your “scripture-talk” is impressive. You can’t even convince other Christians you are right.

      I was a Christian. I’ve read the bible. You have a god that is a failure, as ignorant as the humansn that invented it. You have no evidence for its existence. Your religion is based on the idea that having a blood sacrifice is just great so you don’t have to be responsible for your own actions. You also have a god that is dependent on its supposed arch-enemy, with your god trying to impress Satan like a school girl in Job, needing this character for its blood sacrifice to happen, and then in revelation, we have this god forcing humans to work with satan for its supposed “plan” and then having to release satan to corrupt Christians, since this god already murdered everyone else. Must suck to be the christians that this god throws under the bus.

      I’ve very glad I have better morals than worshipping an idiot like that.

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      2. yes, I do see right through you. Still avoiding those other bits of your bible, I see.

        Now, I’m sure you don’t honestly mean what you’ve said. Interesting tactic for a Christian whose god says never to lie, not even if you think you are lying *for* it.

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      4. Arnold, you now offer yet another common theist bit of nonsense. When the bible makes no sense, or clearly says something that the christian doesn’t like, they insist they just can’t explain it. But then they have no problem in insisting they know exactly what this god wants, that they have the only right version, etc.

        I don’t know if I’m the first person to make the reference, having made it for a rather long time: you all simply have your own magic decoder rings when it comes to interpreting the bible.

        Your bible is quite clear: if you are a true believer in Christ as personal savior, you will be able to do miracles like JC, etc.

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    1. funny how JC had no problem making miracles and directly says that one should accept the miracles even if they don’t believe him.

      ““Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If those to whom the word of God came were called ‘gods’—and the scripture cannot be annulled— 36 can you say that the one whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world is blaspheming because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” John 10

      and then Luke ““This generation is an evil generation; it asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”

      Again, we see the gospels directly contradicting each other.

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      2. “The Bible’s full of contradictions; here’s one: Jesus was the “son of Joseph,” and “the Son of God.””

        Yep, that’s quite a contradiction and it makes the supposed prophecies about jesus a complete mess. The jewish messiah was supposed to be of the family of David, and surprise, JC can’t be since he has no daddy except this god. Ooopsie!

        The bible is a set of contradictory books that Christians have created a whole industry for “correcting” aka apologetics. So much for your “perfect” god.

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  9. On December 22, Arnold said “Everyone’s a fraud! Jesus said, “There is only One who is good.”

    You mean, the “One” that supposedly created a hell to torture sentient beings forever? Ah. This is obviously some strange new definition of “good” that I wasn’t previously aware of.

    I think I’ll stick with imperfect but real human goodness and skip the Biblical version, thankyouverymuch.

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  10. “real human goodness” Oh this is rich, it’s hilarious that these words come from the mouth of debauchee women who don’t accept any ten commandments from Bible.

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    1. I am letting this comment through from “Anantadhaya” aka “d-man” aka “ST” aka “spartan theist” and now aka “arjun” through as a lovely example of how a self-described christian is a liar and how religion is rather hilarious. It’s so sweet to see that this twit from India has no problem ignoring his supposed god when he finds he needs to bother me and repeatedly tries and tries and tries, failing every single time. I guess the poor dear is sure that his god is stupid enough not to notice repeated lies in his attempts to try to sneak in a comment under a false name.

      Alas our failure isn’t too bright when it comes to email and IP addresses. Tsk. Shall we show some verses that he should know? Of course.

      “There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.” Proverbs 6

      “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” John 8

      “Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” Romans 12

      no additional posts from this idiot will be shown.

      Liked by 1 person

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