Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – christian excuses about prayer

John Clayton, a christian who tries to claim that science agrees with his religion and that prayers work, has failed a couple of times recently.

In one post we have this:
“It is interesting that the more vocal atheists of our day spend a lot of time talking about prayer. Many of them became atheists because when they were younger, God didn’t answer a prayer as they thought He should. The death of a family member, especially a mother or father, is the most common story we have heard as a reason for not believing in God. The common phrase is, “Why didn’t God answer my prayer? If He really exists, why did He let my child (or mother, father, spouse) die?’

The songbook we use at our worship time contains 45 songs about prayer. Eleven of them promise that God will take care of you and not deny anything you ask. Skeptics have said the song “God Will Take Care of You” by Civilla and Walter Martin “is an outright lie.” Atheists often quote the line, “Nothing you ask will be denied.”

The other side of this issue is what we should legitimately pray for. My wife recently lost a hearing aid. She prayed for several days about the loss, and just when she had given up, the hearing aid appeared on the seat of our car. Does God micromanage our lives to help us find lost objects?”

So, John has that “many atheists” have ditched the cult since our prayers weren’t answered. In my experience that is one of the least cited reasons, since if you don’t believe in a god, one doesn’t believe it grants wishes either. Per John’s magic book, this god promises to fulfill *any* prayer of a true believer, with no excuses or exceptions.

We see that christians have no problem with this promise since they write hymns about it. It’s just when those promises fail miserably, that the chritian must give excuses why this god doesn’t do what it promises. John has to claim that only certain prayers are answered, like his wife’s prayer for her hearing aid. You know, something important, not like feeding the starving, healing amputees, healing burn victims, etc.

Even John admits that his god failed him miserably, but John has to ignore that because John thinks he will get magic prezzies after he is dead if he sucks up to the imaginary tyrant enough. It’s the typical selfish cultist. No wonder John doesn’t allow comments on his nonsense.

Then we have this as a follow up:

“Both atheists and believers have many misunderstandings about prayer:
#1) God cannot eliminate our purpose for existing by answering a prayer that takes away the human ability to choose between good and evil.“

Nothing more than the free will excuse. Alas, for John, his religion doesn’t support free will. Matthew 13 and Romans 9 are clear that this god has already chosen who it will allow to accept it and then damns the rest for no fault of their own.

#2) Galatians 6:7 tells us, “A man reaps what he sows.” There will be consequences when we do what God has told us not to do. If you jump off a cliff, you can’t expect God to prevent you from hitting the bottom.

Interesting claims since this god has repeatedly killed people for things they didn’t do. John fails yet again.

#3) As humans, we don’t always know what to ask for, and we don’t know the collateral damage of things we ask for. Garth Brooks has a wonderful song titled “Unanswered Prayer.” Listen to the words and be aware of their message.

Actually, we do know what to ask for, since most humans are empathic beings. Asking for misery to be ended isn’t a bad thing, but John would have everyone think so to excuse his god from its inaction. If this god is omnipotent, there by definition can’t be any “collateral damage”. Of course, this idiot god repeatedly causes collateral damage per the bible since it isn’t smart enough to do something that doesn’t, oh, pointlessly kill all the animals on earth when it just wants to murder all of the humans.

#4) We tend to experience an answer to prayer by assuming the answer was a product of chance or human wisdom. Does a medical cure for something mean that God had no role in the healing? Most doctors will tell you that they don’t cure diseases. They help the body fight off the cause.

Yep, a medical cure means that your god had no role in healing. If your god intentionally kept back cures from people, it is no more than a monster. Once upon a time, humans thought the gods caused illness by their “wrath”, and surprise, us humans found out that was complete garbage.

#5) God doesn’t do for us what we can do for ourselves.

This is a common bit of nonsense used by many christians. Nowhere in the bible does it say “god helps those who help themselves”. It always says, trust in this god and it will provide what you need and protect you.

It fails massively on both counts.

What would be the result if God answered every human whim and desire? I was in a church service where a farmer prayed for rain. Later, another member prayed it wouldn’t rain on his daughter’s wedding. During the Civil War, people on both sides prayed for victory for their side.

Yep, as John notes, it makes no sense at all to have a god answering prayers.

Does God answer prayers? Most 12-step participants, most of us who have sought a purpose for existing, most of us who have prayed for personal peace and comfort, and most of us who have struggled with our approaching death can tell you that prayer helps in obvious ways. Our misunderstanding of why God wants us to pray prevents us from comprehending the value of prayer.”

No god needed to have a purpose to exist. No god has ever given peace or comfort. No need to be afraid of death. All John has are fear and ignorance to follow the cult. From what John writes, all this god wants is humans to beg and to waste their time.