Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – reducing a conservative Christian to incoherence

I think I may have broken our favorite unfunny Christian comedian, John Branyan:  “I would consider the stopping of the earth’s rotation as evidence you have a husband.”  Now, since no one ever claimed my spouse could stop the earth from rotating like the bible claims this god can stop the “sun” aka stop the earth from rotating, how can that be evidence of a 50+ year old Army veteran who is married to a 50+ year old me?  Of course, JB’s Amanda, has such a good time trying to claim I’m not human *but* she’ll be “forced” to vote for Trump because of me.  Such a pair of conservative Christians.

Poor JB, he has ended up here after thinking that it’s funny to be misogynistic just like Donald J. Trump, whom it seems to be living up to his claims of being an sexual abuser.  Oh well, that’s all he has, the “comedy” of a bully, who doesn’t like it at all when he’s called on it.  This is what conservative Christians are.

Tsk.

In other news, I have a momma cat and her kittens in my backyard.  The momma cat lets me pick her up and pet her. Now begins the process of taming the four kittens.  I discovered, again, that kittens have claws with monomolecular points on them.  🙂

 

 

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What the Boss Likes: claims, reasons and evidence

When I discuss religion here, it is usually about claims that theists make based on their respective religions. In most cases, those claims and religions get their details from what are deemed “holy books”.   These can be anything from how the universe came to be, to how one should eat, or how one should treat other people, etc.

Many theists want to start with a presupposition, that their holy book is true. What they forget is that to everyone else but a believer, it is a set of claims.

The Department of Communication at University of Pittsburgh has a great explanation of how claims, reasons and evidence works. Claims aren’t evidence of themselves like the theist presupposition requires.  They can be evidence that people did indeed believe such things, but they are not evidence that the events happened or the beings existed.

Addendum:  if you want to see me discuss this with a Christian, go to Joe’s blog here: https://trueandreasonable.co/2014/12/23/no-evidence/   At this moment, if my posts are still up, Joe is trying to use trial lawyer arguments for evidence for his god.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Well, we got the truth on what some Chrisitans really want -A theocracy and a war.

this god kills kids to show off

This morning I read The Friendly Atheist’s (aka Hemat Mehta) post on Patheos: “WA Lawmaker Attends Fundraiser for Liberty, a Proposed 51st State for Christians”   Of course these idiots think that they can just take other people’s land, up in the northwest US and that the US Constitution will allow this.   That won’t happen. Now, perhaps they can just go Alabama since Christians have been trying to make that a theocracy repeatedly. But they of course don’t want a coastal state since it’s hot, going to suffer from the climate change they deny, and will get nailed by hurricanes that they always claim come because of someone else’s “sin”.

We’ve seen nonsense like this before with the founder of Domino’s Pizza, Tom Monaghan, (one of the rabid Catholics with Opus Dei) wanting a Catholic town. He did get it, calle Ave Maria, Florida. Ah, only in Florida. The Wikipedia article says this about it “Ave Maria has a severe mosquito problem and has been sprayed more than 30 times via airplane with pesticides by the Collier Mosquito Control District in 2015 with organophosphates and pyrethroids,[21] making it the most sprayed area in Southwest Florida.” Seems they have their own version of the ten plagues.

For the war bit, I read an opinion piece in my local Sunday paper by Chistine Flowers. You’ve seen her name on this blog before because she is a Roman Catholic apologist, who does get upset when the truth is told about her ignorant religion. She’s at it again, with her op-ed piece “With new abortion legislation, America is on the right track”. This is what she claims right off “’ I’m here to dispense with the niceties of “can’t we all get along?” No, we can’t. The fight for the right to life is a war.”

Oh my, how silly. Ms. Flowers certainly wants a war, doesn’t she? Alas, she’s declaring war against the United States of America, the vast majority who doesn’t agree with her religious ignorance and demands for a theocracy. Poor Ms. Flowers, she has declared that unless she gets her way, no exceptions for abortion and her theocratic nonsense in place, she’ll become John Brown at Harper’s Ferry. Now, it seems either Ms. Flowers isn’t so pro life since she seems to be so ignorant about John Brown, because the truth of that particular story is that John Brown was an incompetent man who got people killed and failed at what he claimed he was trying to do.

Ms. Flowers is “relieved” that men are taking away health care choice from women who dare to disagree with Ms. Flowers. She has no problem with laws being made with ignorance of basic medicine, having no problem with nonsense like claims that ectopic pregnancies can be “fixed” as the claims in the Ohio legislation. She goes on to lie about Rep, Brian Sims being “aggressive” to anti-choice protestors (an “older white woman and three teenagers” as Ms. Flowers strangely specifies) when he said this “”Shame on you. What you’re doing here is disgusting. This is wrong. You have no business being out here,” and you can watch it here: https://www.pscp.tv/BrianSimsPA/1BRJjvOnrzwJw   Hmmm, compare this to accusations of murder and false information that Ms. Flowers advocates to be told to women who choose to get an abortion and the murders of people that anti-choice have been doing for years, bombing clinics, and putting up lists of doctors to be killed, etc. It seems that yet again, Ms Flowers gets offended to have the truth be shown about her religion and her attempts to control people because of it. It isn’t very flattering to be shown to be wanting the same sharia law that Ms. Flowers and other conservatives keep trying to lie about being used by Muslims in the United States.

Ms. Flowers goes on to laud that some of our conservative Christian legislators here in PA decided to show how wonderful they are by voting on a bill called The Downs Syndrome Protection Act, that they invented to try to claim that abortions were doing done left and right for fetus’s with downs syndrome. They of course forget to mention that Downs Syndome is not the media version of the happy child that is affected by a mild form. Down’s Syndrome can manifest many ways, and not all parents can handle children with this syndrome. She also forgets that the Republicans in the legislature of PA have consistently voted to cut help to mental health and medical support for those afflicted by such problems. It takes a lot of hypocrisy to try to use people with Down’s Syndrome to try to legislate your religion in to law.

Ms. Flowers is happy that Alabama has passed a bad on abortion that will force rape victims to keep the pregnancy forced on them by violence and a child to keep the pregnancy forced on them by a relative. “And that brings me to Wednesday when the Alabama legislature passed their own abortion ban which makes no exception for rape or incest.

Alabama State Sen. Clyde Chambliss, who sponsored the bill, characterized the legislation as a necessary government intervention to protect human rights. “When God creates the miracle of life inside a woman’s womb, it is not our place as human beings to extinguish that life,” Chambliss said.”

What a pathetic human being, Ms. Flowers is, for all of her claims of being “pro-life” but intentionally wanting to force a woman to risk her life because Ms. Flowers thinks her god wants it this way.

Despite her claims that the “pro-life” movement should be more than “pro-birth, Ms. Flowers doesn’t care as long as she gets her way, and she’s threatening to go to “war” for it. Hmmm, who else has said that? Ah yes, the fighters who want an Islamic Caliphate, to control people by their hate-filled and ignorant religion who murdered people who didn’t agree with them. Well, Christine, the folks who are in ISIS want to tell you how much they approve of you. Just put in a burka and you’ll be all set.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation– a festive blend of opinions on food, politics, religion….

Here’s a post about random things. Opinions about food, religion, politics etc are freely mixed.

I’ve a new follower “God’s Geological and Math Signs”. Oh my, this person’s website is utterly hilarious. For a religion that is supposedly followed by faith and no evidence needed (as told to me repeatedly by various Christians), this individual certainly is desperate for evidence that s/he is right. As an actual geologist, I find this utterly ridiculous. Perhaps only the classic nonsense by self-claimed prophets and liars like Falwell, Robertson, Graham are more pathetic. This poor individual claims that Alpha Centauri is the “same size” as our sun, which is it not, and seems to have no idea it is a multi star system. He also seems to think that it’s amazing that he can draw crosses all over the place. Note the Holy Cross Chile pepper So many Christians are walking talking examples of the Dunning Kruger effect. This person is also one of those who seems to think that all other religious believer “really” agree with him, by insisting that all religions are about his god (ignoring his bible as convenient, including Exodus 12:12)

Otto’s Pub & Brewery has a great new Cherry Wheat beer. It’s so much better than the Sam Adam’s version, with a good cherry nose and a color tending toward red. We stop when we can on our way back from visiting relatives. I got the gyro (about the size of two) and my spouse got the braised beef sandwich. The food is always fabulous there.

The nonsense in American politics is pretty much all right now about the Mueller report. We have a AG who is intentionally lying to Congress which is pathetic since we now have most of the report and can read it, and it seems we’ll shortly have Mueller testifying. We also have a orange moron who is desperate to hide his financials. Hmmm, now he has said that only the guilty hide things. I’m guessing he’s hiding money laundering and/or showing he doesn’t have the money he claims, and banks will never deal with him again after his presidency. Mueller found that Trump didn’t collude; but indicted how many of his minions for other crimes found, and we still have the Trumpies never reporting to the FBI that they were approached by the Russians and Trump who exhorted the Russians to attack the US’s IT systems. I’m personally supporting Elizabeth Warren, who is one of the democratic candidates.

I’ve made another batch of beer. It’s “Don’t Be Mean to People – a Golden Rule Saison” from Northern Brewer. It was created in support of LBGT folks in North Carolina when their state gov’t decided to get involved in people’s bathroom choice. I had the kit sitting around and hadn’t realized how long. The malt powder became large blocks of hard malt. I melted them and things seem to be proceeding apace. Should be bottling in a week or so. They don’t have it in stock anymore.

That’s it. Have a nice weekend!

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Moving the goalposts, prayer as a weapon, ignoring questions and the usual theist nonsense

Well, I finally have some time to write a blog post. Between work, and painting, and simply being disgusted with the world, I put this off.

I did do a couple of craft shows with my alcohol ink paintings and I sold one thing on Etsy. Made back my entrance fee and then some, so I’m happy about that. I decided to start trying to sell my art since it was starting to overrun the house.

Now, back to my favorite topic, Christians behaving badly.

Here in PA, we had a particularly virulent TrueChristian™ make a scene when Rep. Borowicz tried her best to convince her god that it wasn’t her fault that the PA voters elected a woman who happens to be Muslim to the state legislature.   She gave the opening prayer at the legislature and was a wonderfully bigoted twit, ignoring her bible when it says don’t pray on street corners. She claims she prays like this “all of the time”. Sure, dear, I have no problem that you are a jackass whenever you do much of anything.

I have also been kibitzing on various blogs where a theist, usually a Christian, is making false and/or baseless claims about atheists or the universe in general. When the theist responds to a post, it’s amazing how quickly they end up attacking their fellow Christians, when I point out how much they don’t agree. For a religion of supposedly “billions”, they show quite definitely that Christianity isn’t one religion but many very small ones. I had one fellow “Triggerman” insist that Baptists aren’t Christians by definition “A Christian can be a Baptist, just like a Christian can be a Methodist, or a Presbyterian or a Catholic or even a Pentecostal or a non-denom. However, just being a Baptist, etc, doesn’t make anyone a Christian.”, that Catholics aren’t Christians at all and that Christians who don’t agree with his version are “Free to think whatever they want and impose all of the FALSE standards they want to.” Tsk. I asked poor TM how does his god choose who to damn and who to allow to believe in this god if not randomly. It’s always fun to watch them insist that they do know but when it comes to saying how, there’s not an answer to be had except an attempt to redefine the word “random”.

A friend has a new website up with the more vile words of a Christian I’ve also crossed swords with, John Branyan. You can find it here. It is holding Christians accountable for their claims and beliefs.

I also found Caroline again, a Christian who has occasionally shown up (just search “caroline” in the search box in the upper right to see all of the instances) on this blog, making her usual false claims about morality and how great her morality is. She is a great example of someone using about ever poor apologist bit of nonsense in her arguments. There are no comments allows on her blog if you don’t agree with her (though she has let me post in the past), but I did happen to find her on facebook. Again, it ended up with her not answering some very basic questions: “why is objective morality “better” than subjective morality” and “why is stealing from someone wrong?”. My comments still there if you are interested (you’ll see posts from Jane R., that’s me). I find it very funny that she calls herself “friendlier theist” there. This comes from a theist who said this to me “Enjoy your Godless life…while you can.” She claimed to be arguing just for “theism” and not Christianity.

This attempt to move goalposts isn’t a new thing at all. It’s nothing new that Christians claim that those other Christians aren’t really Christians at all. There is not one new bit of evidence to support the existence of any of the billions of versions of the Christian god nor for any other god. It’s the same old arguments. The most recent one might be the argument from complexity, and that’s only because we could start to see that complexity. The rest, the early church fathers would recognize.

With Easter coming up, a lunar and fertility holiday that moves all around thanks to other religion’s beliefs, we see again that it’s been 2000+ years and still nothing has changed. No miracles, no baptized believers in JC as savior doing miracles as promised, no elders of the church doing miracles, no JC descending from the clouds in his end times return. Just lots of failed stories and baseless claims. And no god serving as back up to a lot of incompetent apologists. People ask, why do I bother? Well, I don’t like liars and I don’t like people who think it’s their right to harm people in trying to take away their ability to make an informed decision.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – the usual idiocy in the US thanks to conservative Christians

Here in the US, we certainly do have a pile of idiots who voted for a moron and now we all get to suffer for it.

This week, during the remembrance services for the first president Bush, we got to see just how ridiculous it is for Christians to follow a man who has no idea about the first things of their religion. It’s also most curious that we haven’t had the excuses that fountain up out of the millionaire pastors usually insisting that it’s okay to worship a liar, an adulterer, a self-confessed sexual abuser, a cheat, a supporter of murderous dictators, etc. There’s not been a peep about Trump’s failure with the apostles creed. I might think that they are just hoping this will all go away soon but why stop excusing an idiot now?

We also have a Christian pastor caught trying to rig the vote, and again funny how this god does nothing to stop its supposed leaders from being idiots? One might try to claim “free will” but if one actually reads the bible, this god had no problem murdering people who didn’t do what it wanted. So are we to think that this god wants lies? Well, the bible says it has no problem with lies, just as long as it is the one deceiving people.

And then we get the orange moron wanting to appoint another moron, one who thinks that D-Day was a great moment between Germany and the US. Hmmm, is this a blonde useless woman who used to be on Faux Noise? Why yes, yes it is.

There is a woman who is an illegal alien, but more courageous than most to call out the hypocrite Trump who has employed her. And Tillerson who was a failure, and now is finally getting a spine it seems.   As for Kelley, well, the babysitter in chief seems to have failed.

Mueller seems to have his ducks in a row. Pence is in the crosshairs as is everyone else associated with these vermin. No one will be sad when Trump dies. No eulogies praising him, just his family skulking about, hopefully in lovely orange jumpsuits to remind them of their failures.

I’ll be dancing in the streets.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – two questions answered

In my last post, I wrote about abortion rights. I haven’t heard anything from any abortion opponents yet to answer my questions. However, I did note that the pastor I addressed has two questions for health choice advocates to answer on his blog. Unsuprisingly, Pastor Dave does not allow comments on his website. You can contact him through his contact page (complete with false claims about commenters being “aren’t so much interested in engaging thoughtfully” and bearing of false witness as commenters are not “genuine”, offered as excuses) , but it’s random if he bothers answering or not. I find it telling that I have no problem in allowing comments and that a pastor does.

The pastor has these two questions.

  1. When does human life begin?
  2. Who has the right to take life?

Dave believes that life begins at conception. Why? Because the bible tells him so. He also claims that “science and ethics point us”. Ethics has nothing to say about when life begins. And science doesn’t support his claim either. The concept of when life begins is still debated. Why he chooses to make unsupported claims is beyond me, other than to spread misinformation for his own benefit.

A fertilized egg cannot live on its own without support. Indeed, myriads of fertilized eggs never make it to the implantation stage and are simply expelled from the body. Myriads are aborted later by the failure to be viable. If it is killing when a fertilized egg is expelled, then this god is responsible for a very very large number of killing “children” as the anti-abortion folks want to claim per their own argument.

Dave, along with a lot of people against healthcare choice, quote the following: ““The scientific answer is that the embryo is a human being from the time of fertilization because of its human chromosomal constitution. The zygote is the beginning of a developing human.” Keith L. Moore, T.V.N. Persaud, Mark G. Torchia, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 8th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2013. p.327 (happily Amazon’s look before you buy has this excerpt)

What they don’t quote is the information around this, demonstrating the usual intent to spread misinformation: “There are differences of opinion on when an embryo becomes a human being because opinions are often affected by religious or political views. The scientific answer is that the embryo is a human being from the time of fertilization because of its human chromosomal constitution. The zygote is the beginning of a developing human. Some people think that the embryo becomes human only after birth”.

Now, this is not true. There is no consensus that the embryo is a human being; in the literature it is called a human embryo, not a human being. It is considered a potential human being even by anti-abortion activists in their propaganda, not a human being. (see here) Acorns aren’t any more oak trees than a human embryo is a human being.

This god doesn’t even consider them human beings, considering its commands here:

“When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.” – the punishment for killing a human being is not applied.

If the age is from one month to five years, the equivalent for a male is five shekels of silver, and for a female the equivalent is three shekels of silver.” – there is no value assigned for a child less than one month old, and it is not considered

15 Enroll the Levites by ancestral houses and by clans. You shall enroll every male from a month old and upward.” Males less than one month old are not considered human beings to be counted in a census and females aren’t to be counted at all.

Now, Dave goes on to excuse this god because of the classic “might equals right” argument. It’s okay for this god to murder children for the sins of their parents. It’s fine to kill women who are with child during this god’s genocides.  So much for Dave’s claim of “The Christian Gospel points to a God who unconditionally loves us and through Jesus’ death on the Crosstakes away all our guilt and covers our shame.”  Quite a few conditions given by this god, and it certainly doesn’t love those who don’t obey it.

And it’s mighty fine to harm a woman and her fetus if the husband is jealous. No evidence, just jealous.

“The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 12 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; 14 if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself; or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself; 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman’s hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, “If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you,” 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—“the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children.

29 This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife; then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.

This god has the right to kill anyone and anything because Dave believe it created them and creators have the unquestionable right of destruction. I suspect he might disagree with this when it comes to the church he preaches from, a hospital, the roads through his local town, etc. It becomes no more than special pleading on Dave’s part. It is only hypocrisy when these self-declared “pro-lifers” insist how bad abortion is. Might equals right is all they care about. Funny how even this god doesn’t believe that the fetus is made in its image, or it doesn’t care. Yep, Dave, you don’t get much more vulnerable than a fetus. Now, why does your god destroy so many if we are to believe your bible? So much for your plea for “struggling emotively”.

Considering the vileness of what you claim to believe, Dave, I know that I am far more committed to improving medical care for women and indeed everyone than you are, when you have made false claims about how allowing abortions somehow interferes with medical progress.

I am far more committed to protecting women from the bullying, abuse, sexual violence than you are since you have chosen to lie to women about abortion.

I am far more committed to standing up for asylum seekers who come to escape abuse, torture, rape and FGM from people who concur with the vile laws in your bible that you claim your god came up with.   Your god repeatedly approves of the murder of women, the murder of women who are raped and who didn’t scream lough “enough”, and forcing women to marry their rapists. It approves of enslaving people if the father doesn’t want to abandon his enslaved wife and children. We also hear little to nothing about parents who after they have had children, and who have murdered them on the pyre of their religion when they don’t get them treated for curable diseases. We only hear demands for “religious freedom” in those cases.

Such are the crocodile tears of a TrueChristian(tm).