Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – nothing new, a Christian apologist fails

Many of my blog visitors will recognize the failed apologist SpaniardVIII.  He, in the typical apologist arrogance, offered to answer any questions about his version of Christianity.    I asked him some questions about bible verses to see what excuses he would offer, and I wasn’t disappointed, getting a great set of examples of how Christians respond when their bible is inconvenient in its contradictions and in its less than admirable god.

The first  question I asked was about the contradictory claims in Exodus 20 and Ezekiel 18 where this god is described as punishing descendants for the actions of their ancestors and where it says this god will never do that.    

Unfortunately for span, it doesn’t just “seem” like this god will punish descendants, it says that quite literally.  We also have that confirmed in the Christian claims of “original sin”.    These are the verses:

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.”  Exodus 20 NRSV

Span uses the Berean Study Bible for his translation.  That is claimed to be “. An interlinear Bible to directly follow the Greek and Hebrew texts.2. A literal translation to take the reader to the core of the Greek and Hebrew meanings.3. A modern English translation, effective for public reading, memorization, and evangelism.4. An annotated translation to bring out the full meaning and intensity of the original texts.”  Funny how all bibles claim to be exactly this, with the exception of the good ol’ KJV since it is still in Elizabethan English. Christians still can’t agree on what version is the “right one”, and it seems that not a one of them can get their imaginary god’s stamp of approval. 

This is what the BSB has “ 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments. “

If we look at the underlined words, the father’s descendants are cursed since they are continuing to practice their father’s wickedness which in this case is idolatry. If a son imitates his father’s sins, he will be found guilty in God’s eyes. However, in Ezekiel 18, God makes it clear that if the son sees all of his father’s wickedness but decides not to do them but rather, obey the LORD, he will not pay for his father’s sins. God judges everyone’s personal decisions either to believe in God and follow His Word or to disobey Him and live in sin.

The LORD’s desire is for people to repent from their sins and change their ways and obey His Word.

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn’t I prefer that he turn from his ways and live? -Exodus 18:23 BSB

His bible doesn’t say that the children of the parents who disobey are also disobeying at all.  This demonstrates either Span’s ignorance about how grammar works or that he is attempting to lie.  What the sentence says is that the children will be punished because of the actions of the parent, not their own actions.  If one writes this out without the clauses, it comes out like this “You shall not bow down to them or worship them.  I am a jealous God and I visit the iniquity of the fathers who hate me on the third and fourth generations of their children.   I show loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.” 

there are actions by this god in these sentences.  This god “visits” (in this context meaning “to afflict with; to avenge (to exact satisfaction for (a wrong) by punishing the wrongdoer – merriam webster which uses this verse as an example)” the iniquities of the parents on the children for the actions of the parents.  There is no hate shown by these children toward this god.  This god also acts on those that love him, all of them.  

Unsurprisingly, span is also wrong about Ezekiel 18.  It mentions nothing about a son seeing the actions of his father.  “ 1The word of the Lord came to me: What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? As I live, says the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person who sins that shall die.” Ezekiel 18 NRSV

This goes on to mention a son who does bad things, and says that a father wouldn’t be held accountable, and that if a father does bad things, a son would not be held accountable. And again, it repeats “20 The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.” 

span tries to mention Ezekiel 18, where this god claims to be interested in people coming to it.  “23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that they should turn from their ways and live? 24 But when the righteous turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity and do the same abominable things that the wicked do, shall they live? None of the righteous deeds that they have done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which they are guilty and the sin they have committed, they shall die.”

Now, consider this “David said to Nathan, ‘I have sinned against the Lord.’ Nathan said to David, ‘Now the Lord has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord,[a] the child that is born to you shall die.’ 15 Then Nathan went to his house. The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became very ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child; David fasted, and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood beside him, urging him to rise from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died.” 2 Samuel 12

hmmm. Span still has a contradiction in his bible and we also get to see this god lie when it comes to David’s son.

The second response is even better.  

“The second question:

“If this god hates Satan, why does it show off to satan like a [the phrase was removed for being disrespectful] and allow a family to be murdered?”

God gives all of His creatures free will. For example, God has allowed you (clubschadenfreude) to mock and malign God without being judged immediately for your contempt. You and the rest of the atheists are very fortunate.”


the phrase removed was that this god shows off to satan like a besotted schoolgirl.   Poor god, just so impotent and fearful, it can’t take being described accurately.  My question here is referring to events in the book of Job.  It’s no surprise that span didn’t quote that here, since it shows he’s wrong again.  There is no mention of free will, and a complete disregard for free will when this god says that satan can do whatever he wants with these humans “ The Lord said to Satan,[g] ‘Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!’” Poof goes their free will.  And alas, for span, this god doesn’t allow me to do anything at all.  This imaginary god can’t do anything, and all poor span has is an impotent threat that will never come true.  I’ll never be judged by his bogeyman at all.   

“The third question:

“If this god hates satan, why did it allow satan into the garden? or couldn’t it keep it out?”

God’s judgment on Satan and his fallen angels will take place at the end of the world when they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with those who refuse to put their trust in Jesus Christ.

God allowed Satan to test Adam and Eve to see if they would choose to obey God or listen to Satan. It is no different for us today. We are given the choice to follow Jesus or to follow Satan through atheism, cults, and the occults.”

Span tries to claim that an omnipotent and omniscient being has to “test” people for some reason.  Being omniscient means you don’t have to test someone; you know already what will happen and what people will do.  This depowering of a god isn’t anything new for Christians to do.   They just don’t think their excuses through. 

“The fourth question:

“If this god hates satan, why did it need satan to have its blood sacrifice by torture work?”

I’m not sure what she is trying to say with this question. It doesn’t make any sense. I will try anyways.

I’m assuming she is referring to Jesus’ death on the cross. So what she is asking is, why did Jesus need Satan to put Him on the cross? Jesus didn’t need Satan to put Him on the cross. There is no such reference in Scripture even remotely to that effect. Judas Iscariot opened up the door to Satan by being a thief, see John 6:70-71, giving him access to his life. Satan hated Jesus and wanted to stop Him since Jesus was reclaiming the souls that Satan had captured to do his bidding. When he saw that Judas didn’t give his heart to Christ and was stealing from Him, Satan saw his opportunity and took it.

This is for the second part of her question. The reason Jesus had to die on the cross for the sins of the world was that sin brought about death for all mankind. The payment for our sins was for someone sinless, Jesus Christ, to die in our place and pay our debt in full. God had to deal with humanity’s sins first before He could forgive them. Once God punished sin, forgiveness can now be extended to all.”

Poor span, he can’t grasp what I’ve asked here.  If this god hates satan, why does it need satan’s action for its plan to come true?  In the gospel of Luke, there would be no blood sacrifice by torture of Jesus if there wasn’t a betrayal done by Satan.  No blood sacrifice, no salvation. So, yep, this god needs satan.  Judas didn’t open up anything at all.  That’s a common false claim by Christians who haven’t read their bibles, but believe the mangled version given to them by priests and pastors who don’t like when this god works with its archenemy.  This claim that somehow satan took over also shows that free will is again not in the bible.  If humans can be taken over, poof goes free will. As for why JC had to die, it was to make god happy, nothing more or less.  And there was no payment since there was no loss.   It’s also unsurprising that, again, span must depower his god.  By definition, a god doesn’t have to deal with anything, especially when it put the rules in place. 

Then we get to the most interesting response:

“If this god hates satan, why does it kill all non-christians and then free satan to corrupt the christians that are left?”

“This question is misleading as it is incorrect from the start, assuming that everyone will be a Christian at that time. The question is about the End Times, in the Book of Revelation when Jesus comes down to fight against the Antichrist and his army. The non-Christian she refers to is the Antichrist and his army who will come to fight against Jesus Christ and His saints. So, the non-Christians are Satan worshippers, who received the mark of the beast. After the Antichrist is defeated, Jesus throws him and the false prophet into the Lake of Fire, and Satan is chained up and thrown into the bottomless pit for the time that Jesus rules on earth. When Jesus wins the battle, He comes down and reigns for a thousand years with His saints, and true peace permeates through the world.

When the thousand years are over, Jesus lets Satan loose for a short time, and it becomes apparent in Revelation 20:7-9, that even though Jesus will be here on earth physically, people will still refuse to believe in Him. So not everybody will be a Christian. Those are the ones that Satan gathers up to go to war for the last time. Fire comes down from heaven and devours Satan’s army who came to destroy the people in Jerusalem. Satan is thrown into his eternal place which is the Lake of Fire. Everyone at that time that ever existed will be judged. Everyone in Hades will be brought back to face God’s judgment and will end up in the Lake of Fire which is the second death. The righteous will be judged for the things they did for Jesus while on earth. Those are the ones who will enter heaven.”

Here again, the bible shows that span is wrong and that’s why he doesn’t quote it any longer in this post.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, ‘Come, gather for the great supper of God, 18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders—flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.’ 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against the rider on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur. 21 And the rest were killed by the sword of the rider on the horse, the sword that came from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.”

Span chooses to try to ignore what the verse actually says, “the flesh of all” and “the rest were killed”.  So everyone is dead except Christians, per the bible itself.     

then we have “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and locked and sealed it over him, so that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be let out for a little while.”

So, we have the nations of Christians kept safe from satan so “true peace” will reign.  If there are non-christians, this couldn’t happen per the lies of Christians like span who want to claim we are all just such horrible people.   There is nothing in Revelation 20:7-9 that there are still anyone other than Christians left.  “When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, in order to gather them for battle; they are as numerous as the sands of the sea. They marched up over the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from heaven[b] and consumed them. 10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

what we have is that satan is freed to corrupt the Christians who are the only ones left, the ones that are now deceived.  If this weren’t the case, this would mean that Jesus failed to conquer the beast, the false prophet and those who worshiped them in Chapter 19.  Hmm, how does a perfect being fail?

Span also gets it wrong that people will be in heaven.   Alas, only a few humans get to go there, and Christians don’t agree on just how one figures that bit of nonsense out.   the rest get the tacky city of heaven on earth where we see a god obsessed with worldly wealth. 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – an update on those Christians who want a new waste of money

I found out that some Christians, rather than helping women and children, and being all “pro-life” are exactly the opposite, wanting to build yet more worthless buildings to their greed and ignorance. I signed up on their mailing list to see what these idiots are up to. You can see how some Christians reveal just what they stand for here.

This is what I got recently. I do like that right off, poor ol’ God is left out. How pagan!

“Dear Friend of Jesus and Mary:

My heartfelt thanks to all of you who have reached out to me regarding your prayerful interest in the proposed shrine to the most holy Mother of God in thanksgiving for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.  Since my appearance on Matt Fradd’s Pints with Aquinas a couple of weeks ago, the outpouring of support for this project is beyond humbling.  Please know that your support, especially your prayers, are a crucial part of our discernment as we explore the possibilities of carrying out this noble undertaking.   God’s will be done. 

I wanted to simply send you an update to where things stand with this project as we take the first moves forward with this call ‘one step at a time’.  In the past couple of weeks I have:

  • Assembled a dedicated, visionary team who will assist me in promoting this cause and God-willing, making it a reality.
  • Made contacts with two very talented and faith-filled architects who have generously offered their abilities to produce an initial, proposed model for the building.  This will be crucially necessary at this initial, exploratory phase of the project.
  • Sought out a prospective site for the construction of the shrine in the idyllic and rolling hills of Southwest Pennsylvania (in the Pittsburgh metropolitan area).  
  • Taking the steps to formulate a 501c3 organization for this ongoing project.

Glory to God! The pieces are coming together!  I want to sincerely thank you again for your interest and prayerful support of this undertaking.   You will be hearing from me soon as we traverse the path on which Our LORD and Our Lady continue to lead us.   Continue to keep this project in your prayers!

Yours in Christ,

Fr. Jason Charron

PS — Please see the attached file with this email — a photo of the Majestic St. Michael’s ‘Golden-Domed’ Monastery in Kyiv, Ukraine — our architectural inspiration for this project.

I do live in PA, so I find it hilarious that they think they can build such complete crap here, considering how many catholic parishes have died out in the very region they want to pollute witih their golden lies. I also have to wonder about Catholics, who have long been hating the Orthodox churches using such a classic Orthodox design. They could alway refurbish one of the abandoned ones in Pittburgh or the surrounding area or reconsecrate one. Of cousre, being selfish Christians, they must have a “new” one.

https://architecturalafterlife.com/2019/03/our-lady-help/

https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/silentsanctuaries/

https://triblive.com/local/valley-news-dispatch/work-to-refinish-new-kensington-churchs-onion-dome-continues/

Not So Polite – you’d think they’d learn, yet another set of “questions for atheists”

So, a Jewish fellow, actually a Christian, since he is one of those “jews for jesus” ignoring how Jesus failed as the messiah, has asked yet more questions of atheists. (I’m found this nonsense on Bruce’s blog)They always claim not to be asking to shore up their faith or being antagonistic, etc. This has never been the case in my experience but we’ll go with this as it is offered.   I’m also going to guess that Brown has never ever read a single counter-apologetic.   If he had, then he’d not have needed to ask these questions.  I’m guessing also that Brown only wants ask question so he can play the martyr.  I could be wrong, but these things usually end with whines of “but but you didn’t respect me!” 

Damn right I didn’t. 

“First, would you say that you are (or, were) an atheist based primarily on intellectual study or based on experience? Or did you never believe in God at all?”

Both study and experience.   I was a Christian, read the bible, realized it was no more true than other myths.   The fact that there is no evidence for any of the essential events in it is part of the reason I don’t believe the claims of Christians, including you (I find your need to claim you are a Jew who follows Christ amusing since the Jewish messiah doesn’t need a do-over per the prophecies. The website Jews for Judaism is a nice read).  I also know that Christians don’t agree on much of anything about their religions, so there is no reason to not think you are making all of this up.   The bible says true believers of this supposed messiah can do certain things and unsurprisingly, you can’t. 

After the question, you try to use some standard tactics to excuse why you religion doesn’t work, like blaming “organized” religion, which is just religion.  You also try the “oh you were just angry because this god didn’t give you want you want” excuse to try to claim that atheists only realize that religion is nonsense because of emotional reasons.

“Second, would you say that even as an atheist, you still have a sense of purpose and destiny in your life, a feeling that you were put here for a reason and that you have a mission to accomplish? Or is it primarily people of faith who feel like this, since we are simply the products of an unguided, random evolutionary process?”

Yep, have plenty of purpose in my life.  I make my own.  Don’t need a “destiny”.  I’m not that sadly needy to pretend I’m ever-so special.  Alas, for you, I’m not here randomly. You show that you have no idea what evolutionary theory says.  It isn’t “random” or “unguided” in the way you tries to pretend.   When theists attack evolutionary theory, they should actually know what it is rather than choosing to intentionally lie or remain willfully ignorant. 

“Third, would you say that you are 100 percent sure there is no such being as God – meaning, an eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing being? Or would you say that, for all practical purposes you have concluded that this God does not exist, although it is impossible to prove such a negative with absolute certainty?”

Yep, I am 100% sure that any god described by humans is entirely imaginary.  These has distinct attributes that can be proven or disproven.  There is no evidence for such nonsense. We have no evidence that any of the supposed events caused by said magical being happened.  What we do have is at any date claimed by a Christian, we can show that entirely different things were happening.  So evidence of absence and absene of evidence.  Now, if you want to make up some vague and baseless claims as your god, then it becomes harder for you to show it exists at all.  Can you?  I’ll be waiting for an answer to that. 

“Fourth, do you believe that science can provide answers for many of the remaining mysteries of the universe, including: how the universe began (including where matter came from and where the Big Bang derived its energy); the origin of life; and DNA coding?”

Here, your assumption is that humans will never do another bit of research so your baseless claims about your god will remain untouched.  Even if we never figure out various things, there still is no evidence for your god.  Most if not every religion claims that its god/gods were the creator, and gee, not one of them can show this, despite most of them claiming “look the universe *my* god did that”.  

And yes, I do think that humans will figure out most of these things.  Then you and those like you will have to make up excuses yet again, with those gaps you need for your god growing smaller every day. 

You also seem to forget that DNA constantly screws up.  This would make your god incompetent. You may try to claim that the “fall” caused DNA to screw up, but this would show that Christian claims of “fine-tuning” would be impossible to see if the “fall” screwed up reality. 

Dr. Brown, these questions stump no one at all, so don’t be concerned about that. 

“Fifth, have you had any experiences in life that caused you to question your atheism? Has something happened to you that seemed genuinely supernatural or otherworldly? Or have you been confronted with some information that shook your atheistic foundations, such as a scientific argument for intelligent design? If so, how have you dealt with such doubts to your atheism?”

Nope, no magic exists so no magic experiences.  I can pretty much guarantee that the supposed events you and your wife supposedly had are nothing special at all.  It is notable you didn’t tell what they were, but just made vague claims. 

The argument for “intelligent design” is hilariously incompetent and not scientific at all.  It is just creationism dressed up in lies.  I live near the place where the Kitzmiller vs Dover court decision came from.  It’s notable that the book that the creationists tried to use had a lovely misprint in it “cdesign propentists”, since their find and replace missed where they were trying to change creationist to “intelligent design”.  Interesting when theists like you try to lie so poorly. 

“Sixth, are you completely materialistic in your mindset, meaning, human beings are entirely physical, human consciousness is an illusion, and there is no spiritual realm of any kind? Or are you superstitious, reading horoscopes or engaging in new age practices or the like?”

Completely materialist.   No evidence for magic. 

“Seventh, if you were convinced that God truly existed – meaning the God of the Bible, who is perfect in every way, full of justice and mercy, our Creator and our Redeemer – would that be good news or bad news? And would you be willing to follow Him and honor Him if He were truly God?”

The god of the bible is no different from the other bronze/iron age gods of the time.  This god is demonstrably not “perfect in every way, full of justice and mercy, our creator and redeemer”.   I’ve read the bible so false claims from Christians are easy for me to see. 

Let’s look at what this god does in the bible.  This god intentionally prevents Adam and Eve (A&E) from knowing what good and evil are.  Then this god either allows evil in or can’t keep it out.  This god then blames A&E, throws a tantrum and curses all mankind for the actions of two rather than explaining and forgiving.  This demonstrates quite a lack of justice and mercy.  And I’m not even out of Genesis yet.  We also have this god killing children for no fault of their own; committing genocide and accepting girls as sex slaves; telling slaves to never seek their freedom, etc.  A god so petty to need to kill/eternally torture those that disagree with it is a failure.  I have far higher moral standards than those of this god.  I might believe in it if there was evidence for it, but I’d never worship such a vicious ignorant thing.  If I was going to be a theist, there are far better gods claimed to exist. 

Now, Dr. Brown, what would it take for you to not believe in the version of this god you worship?   

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – various articles on how losing abortion rights will snowball

I subscribe to a website called phys.org which has articles on the various sciences.

Post Roe, women in America are right to be concerned about digital surveillance. And it’s not just period-tracking apps

Facebook, Instagram take down posts offering abortion pills

Instagram hides some posts that mention abortion

Hate sites are using the wider abortion argument to spread racism and extremism

Genetic screening results just got harder to handle under new abortion rules

WHO chief: U.S. abortion ruling ‘a setback,’ will cost lives

One thought I have had is that here in the US, we should push our senators and representatives propose bills to require that *all* children and families be supported with housing, health care, food, education, etc. Surely the conservatives would have no problem at all with this since they are ever so “pro-life”? Right? Shame the idiots into showing either what they really are or getting the help people need.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Catholics want new cathedral to celebrate overthrow of Roe v. Wade, not to help children or women

As the title says, there is a movement in the RCC to make a “huge beautiful church” to their goddess stand-in Mary for the overthrow of Roe v. Wade. Few things go to show how Catholics have no interest in actually helping children than this. Nothing like wanting to spend millions on pleasing an imaginary character and ignoring real kids and families.


This is literally how disgusting these people are:

if the temple cost anything less than  million dollars i say if people really are are contrite for their involvement in this murder on an industrial demonic scale then we should have at least one dollar per baby whose life was snuffed out by man’s malice

why not spend million dollars on offering practical help to mothers who are pregnant? a wise man once said to someone that the poor you will always have with you but me you will not always have

To see the entire transcript (from the auto transcript function on Youtube), i have it here.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – you too can see how crazy Christians can be

I had to save this for posterity

The recent decisions of the Supreme Court cheat Moloch of his accustomed cheap comestibles. He’ll have to make do with less. But, as with all natural systems under the orbit of the moon, this is a case of pushing the envelope in one way only to see it bulge out in another. Moloch will be served, adequately, or there’ll be hell to pay, and no pitch hot.

There will be deaths. Not of children in the womb, but of others. Moloch must be fed, by his slaves. Now that he’ll be denied the food of babies from so many “trigger” states, he’ll need to be fed in some other way. His vassals will try to figure out how  to immolate some high profile victims, to sate his hunger and avert his wrath. I suspect they’ll offer up some from among their own company.

It can’t work. It can’t suffice. His wrath shall inevitably consume all his worshippers. There are not victims enough to sate his lust. His servants then are doomed.

Reject him! Serve the Lord of Life! Only thereby might you prevent your own ingestion, and dissolution, in the insatiable maw of Moloch.” – a Christian called Kristor

No Moloch, dears, and no Christian god. I do love the lies of Christians, who have no problem with their god killing children at all. The hypocrisy is wonderful. And it’s always good to see an impotent imaginary god that can’t get rid of another imaginary god.

Literally, the only people left who are happy with human sacrifice are Christians. We see this in their myths (a babe born in a manger and Jephtha’s daughter for starters), in unfortunately common actions where Christians think their god will heal a child and let the child die, and now in their need to sacrifice women.

Something I’ve found out recently is that the Catholic Church doesn’t allow baptism for the still-born, nor can a mass be said (more information down in the comments). Why? Because they haven’t taken their first breath and therefore aren’t alive. Now, funny how this isn’t what they claim about abortion at all. Now, Christians other than Catholics might be insisting that they don’t believe in this, but funny how they all read from the same bible, and it also says life begins with the first breath too. As always, the bible and its god is no more than a Rorschach test, showing what the human wants to pretend is true, nothing more.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Reflecting some more on the SCOTUS rescinding Roe v.Wade

I have the following. Please do feel free to borrow as you will.  I will guess that my Christian blog followers will be deathly silent. 

We have had the pleasure of watching at least two Catholics (I had mistakenly called them evangelical Christians) lie under oath, Kavanaugh and Barrett. (most curious since evangelicals are sure that Catholics are heretics at best and satanworhippers at worst)  They took their oaths on bibles and per their god.  They claimed they would allow precedent to stand.  They lied, quite intentionally, and happily have shown that there is no reason to trust Christians at all.  I do wonder, do they think if they pray for “forgiveness” and their god will accept that, or will they simply treat it as a vending machine, doing what they want, and demanding forgiveness every time.   Hmmm, nothing like liars and hypocrites underlining how useless Christianity is.  They have shown that no one can trust a conservative Christian at all; they are cultists, little different from the Taliban.

In my latest Freedom from Religion Foundation newsletter, I have the story of Arely Hernandez, killed by Christians during a supposed “exorcism”.  They beat her to death and starved her until she died.  Her mother’s words were “It is what it is.”  So much for this religion being “pro-life”.  One has to wonder where this god was, since it supposedly could have stopped it.  Did its plan require a little girl to suffer and die?  Where are the Christians taking a fit about this?  Oh yes, they have much trouble criticizing other Christians since that means their own nonsense will be noticed. 

Of course, these anti-choice people won’t agree to the fact, that since they wanted the children, it is up to them to provide good homes, good food, good medical care, good education, etc for *all* of these children. No one else now has that responsibility.  You wanted these children, you now must treat them well like any one who wants children should. 

Clarence Thomas said out loud what the QOP desperately hoped he wouldn’t, that any and all rulings are up for grabs.  He mentioned marriage rights and contraceptive rights.  Unsurprisingly, he didn’t mention miscegenation rights – inter-racial marriage), being married to a white woman.   He is a hypocrite, as most, if not all, conservatives are.  

The SCOTUS could have waited for next year to give this ruling.  They were idiots and did it a few months  before mid-term elections.  It’s as if they wanted the Democrats to win.  They QOP has nothing to whip their idiots into a frenzy anymore, and everyone else now knows that the Catholics and Evangelicals want to remove freedoms.

In all of history, it’s never been the good guys who take away freedoms and rights.   Christians have found themselves squarely as the “baddies”, even the “liberal” ones unless they do a damn good job of showing that they have nothing to do with the wannabee theocrats.



And for your convenience, let’s see how many times this god kills children or advocates their killing in the bible.

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. -Exodus 21

If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. -Proverbs 20

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense. – Leviticus 20

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. – Deut 13

Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ – Numbers 1

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. – Isaiah 14:21

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.”  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” – Hosea 9

“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple.”  Hosea 9

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. – Exodus 12

“With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  – Jeremiah 51

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. – Leviticus 26

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. – Isaiah 13

‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt.  Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban.  Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ – 1 Samuel 15

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. – Jeremiah 48

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside.  So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all.  For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed.  Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. – Joshua 8

 They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. – Joshua 6

And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike.  I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone.  I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.’”  Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam’s wife, “Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die.  – 1 Kings 14

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon.  Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. – Judges 20

All of you who are on the LORD’s side, come over here and join me.” And all the Levites came.  He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.”  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing.” – Exodus 32:

Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man’s body and into the woman’s stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. – Numbers 25

The Lord struck the child whom Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became very ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child; David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his house stood beside him urging him to rise from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died. – 2 Samuel 12

Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock! – Psalm 137

Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;their houses will be plundered and their wives raped. – Isaiah 13

Thus says the Lord: I am about to fill all the inhabitants of this land—the kings who sit on David’s throne, the priests, the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem—with drunkenness. 14 And I will dash them one against another, parents and children together, says the Lord. I will not pity or spare or have compassion when I destroy them. – Jeremiah 13

23 He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” 24 When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 2 Kings 2

Because you have trusted in your chariots, in the multitude of your warriors,14 therefore the multitude of war shall rise against your people,  and all your fortresses shall be destroyed, as Shalman destroyed Beth-arbel on the day of battle, when mothers were dashed in pieces with their children.15 Thus it shall be done to you, O Bethel,  because of your great wickedness. – Hosea 10

Samaria shall bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the  word; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. – Hosea 13

Yet she became an exile; she went into captivity; even her infants were dashed in pieces at the head of every street; lots were cast for her nobles;  all her dignitaries were bound in fetters. – Nahum 3

Of course, there are many more (and surprising, how much this god has against farm animals since it senselessly requires those killed too).   Now, funny how this god promises it won’t harm children for what the parents do: 18 The word of the Lord came to me: What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, “The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge”? As I live, says the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person who sins who shall die. – Ezekiel 18

All of the above can be found right here in just about any version you’d like to f – Biblegateway.com

So, was this god lying?  Is this god’s morality subjective aka situational?  And hmm, since this god never wanted Adam and Eve to know what evil and good were, one has to wonder if it didn’t want them to question it when it does such things and knew such things were coming.    The only reason that, per the bible, that humans have morality is because Eve gave it to them.  And then perhaps you have to thank the ol’ snake itself. 

The common Christian excuse is “oh well, they are better off in heaven.”  Nothing is quite so cold and so selfish. 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – oh look, excuses by a Christian on why their god does nothing

A Christian commenter on this blog, “Alexander Phaethon” has written this set of excuses for why his god does nothing at all when it comes to children being killed. I’ve added some paragraphing so it’s not one block of text.

“I am, most likely to annoyance of most, going to cite free will here. It’s very true that multiple times in the Bible God intervened to stop a situation, Jesus’s sacrifice in fact is the best example of this. That being said, the Bible explicitly states that we will face trials and tribulation, so God never said everything would always be sunny and bright.

God gives us free will, that means that some people are going to do the wrong things. God actually does intervene in this though, whether we see it or not. For starters, He told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple. When they did, He gave us, conscience, morality, and a list of rules and commandments with which we can shape our lives in the right direction, and then He sent His Son to die for us so that we might be forgiven when we go astray and have the ability to get to heaven.

It’s not my choice whether or not the atheists here choose to believe this, but I wanted to point two things out here. Number one, a person who writes, according to Nan, a “VERY long” essay attempting to blame a being they, presumably, don’t believes exists, is most likely very bitter about something; I would also question this persons line of thought.

Furthermore, it seems to me that such an endeavor as this essay is such a waste of time; if you don’t believe in God, fine, but at least devote your time to writing something useful. Finally, atheists have long proven that they believe they do not need God, therefore, I cannot understand why they are so upset when He doesn’t intervene; after all, why should an atheist expect God to intervene if they think he doesn’t exist? One final thought, God can intervene miraculously sometimes, but we also can’t foresee how certain acts or situations will effect the future.

As terrible as a shooting is, perhaps God did not intervene because that shooting will profoundly change our world and help us make sure that shootings happen less; in other words, if God had prevented that shooting, maybe He also allowed many future shootings. The point is, we do not have the understanding of God, so why should we blame Him when something bad happens? Rather, we should use tragic events as a means to come together and find solutions to some of these problems, not tear each other down, as some people have tried to do here, and in many places elsewhere.”

Well, he hits all of the classic whines and excuses.

Here’s my response:

Alex, you will cite free will, and I, and most here will just sigh at your ignorance. There is no free will in your bible, and as soon as your god assigned the idiotic “original sin”, free will was done.

The bible also says this god will protect its followers from everything. So all your argument ends up being is a display on how the bible is incoherent.

Let me cite those verses for you.

“7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asked for bread, would give a stone? 10 Or if the child asked for a fish, would give a snake? 11 If you, then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” Matthew 7

“19 Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.”” Matthew 18

funny how no exceptions are mentioned here or in the following.

“22 Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and if you do not doubt in your heart but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.” Mark 11

“17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”” Mark 16

unsurprisingly, not a single Christian can do this. Did the bible lie or are you all simply not getting something right?

“12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me[f] for anything, I will do it.” John 14

“7 If you abide in me and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” John 15

“13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up, and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5

It is not until 1 John where the excuse that one has to pray for what is already this god’s will, which makes prayer useless and it is a lovely excuse for when the aforementioned promises fail.

“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Romans 12

” God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.” Psalm 46

“He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, ” Psalm 91

“Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord my whole life long.” Psalm 23 (quite a failure for the “shepherd”)

In Eden, your god said that the entire garden was for humans in the first story, and in the second version it says don’t eat or you will die that day. So we have no mention of magic trees or we have a lie. You get to choose which one is the “real” story, Alex.

This god of yours didn’t want humans to know right and wrong, Alex. It only wanted obedience. The only reason we have a conscience, per your myths, is because Eve ate the apple. The god wanted us ignorant. Eve gave us morality. And then, rather than just resetting things with Adam and EVe, your god throws a tantrum, and blames everyone for what they did, destroying any concept of free will. If I am damned through no fault of my own, there is no free will. Then your god decides, after failing for supposed thousands of years, that it needs a death by torture to make it feel better. That’s simply disgusting.

Then, Alex, you try the usual whine of “oh dear, why do atheists point out how idiotic we are if they don’t believe in it?” It’s because your lies cause real harm, Alex. No one needs to be “bitter” to point out lies. Devoting one’s time to pointing out lies is useful, and happily, here in the US, Chrsitianity is losing followers. From a 90+% belief rate, we are down into the 70s. And in addition to that, Christians all contradict each other, so there aren’t even that many TrueChristians(tm) in existence; they all hate each other.

Your religion depends on victim blaming when its lies and false promises fail. You invent excuses, including that someone didn’t pray “correctly”, wasn’t a “real” Christian, to cling to this harmful nonsense.

You have no evidence that this god intervenes at all, “miraculously” or not. You try to offer the tedious Christian claim of “but but maybe god needs to kill a child for his “plan”” Hmm, if there is a plan, then there is no free will, ifthis god must take the life of someone, the ultimate ceasing of free will.

You are just one more selfish, ignorant Christian, Alex. There is no surprises here with your excuses. You try to claim “but but we can’t understand god” when you claim to constantly understand him when it comes to what morals this god wants, etc. it’s ever so convenient to claim “God’s mysterious ways”. You have no problem at all praising god when something good happens, stealing the honor and responsibility from humans as is the wont of selfish, greedy Christians.

I don’t need kids being literally ripped apart by bullets to “come together” or to “teach”. That you do shows exactly how Christianity is evil. And yes dear, I can say that with my happily subjective morality. I would not accept such atrocities by a human so I certainly wouldn’t from a god.

As for your rules, funny how you and other Christians don’t follow them when you don’t feel like it. You invent reasons why the inconvenient ones don’t apply to you.

The excuses and false claimed used by Alex, and *so* many Christians, are why I stand against Christianity.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – an excellent essay about morality, gods and mass shootings

Dr. Darren Slade over at the Global Center for Religious Research has written an excellent essay about the excuses that theists, especially conservative Christians, give when it comes to mass shootings. In case you might not know, “miso” means “hate” and yes, one can do that even for imaginary characters.

God and Mass Shootings: A Case for Misotheism

Misotheists argue there exist certain situations that demand an intervention by any agent available because of a prerequisite belief in the sanctity and quality of life. Had it not been for GOD refusing to intervene, those little children could have lived a full and healthy quality of life. This prerequisite principle is the empirical basis for every ethical system today, concluding that the lives of children are inherently valuable and warrant protection as an end unto itself. Indeed, agents cannot act morally toward a dead person, making the intrinsic value of life a precondition for its own sake. Hence, ethical agents have a duty to preserve each other’s right to life.”

Read the rest here.

Oh and before any of my theist subscribers try to claim free will, the bible has many times when this god has interfered with human action.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – now the QOP finds another group they’ve ignored to use as an excuse

Currently here in the US, we have the usual conservative Christians trying to force their lies on everyone again, this time trying to stop legal abortion.

We also have them being ever so concerned about children in the US being “starved” by immigrant families being given infant formula, which is in short supply here in the US for various reasons. they of course blame President Biden, which is always hilarious since a president doesn’t have that kind of power, no matter how they tried to invest their orange moron with it.

These people have consistently tried to eliminate any help for mothers and children, be it SNAP (food assistance), WIC (a program to help women and children get care and good nutrition), and basic welfare like good public schools and affordable housing. But ah, now that they can try to be claim how concerned they are about these people, just so they can excuse their need to deny help for their fellow humans.

This happened the last time when the conservative Christians insisted how much they cared about the “homeless veterans” when they wanted to also keep immigrants out, claiming housing shortages and job that “should” go to “Americans”. They of course dropped their concern as soon as they realized that it wasn’t working as an excuse.

Those veterans are still homeless and the working poor’s kids will still be hungry when they kick them to the curb too. Nothing like a conservative Christian to show just how worthless their cult is. They aren’t “pro-life” they are pro-theocracy and their selfish, petty, greedy religion.