Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a response to Dale re: prayer and free will

021-you-burnt-us-at-the-stake-650x402I’ve encountered a new Christian apologist on a friend’s website.  I’ll first put up his post and give a little background.  Ark has asked Christians to explain a couple of things in their religion.  SailorDale has said he would do so, with some caveats.  I’m not sure if he will answer or not (and I’m assuming he is a he.)   We went off topic a little and I thought I’d post here to not take up time and space on another’s blog.  Now, for my readers who have been around for a while, this is more making of the pate de cheval and yep, you’ve see the discussion before.

Sailordale writes: OK, First let me say that you have the choice (free will) to accept or reject Jesus. Ultimately, that is your decision, and yours alone. Everyone has some knowledge of God, and thus no one will be without excuse when we are standing before God to give an account for our lives. We will not be able to say “I didn’t know” So I do hope that you will seriously consider Christianity! And I highly recommend the page- http://www.gotquestions.org/ That is a great place to seek answers to your unresolved questions about God & Jesus. And the Bible is the best interpreter of itself. Keep on reading it, the answers are all there. And as for the Prayers- Yes, Prayer DOES work, and all prayers will be answered! But, they may not be answered exactly as the asker is wanting. You are misunderstanding the prayers that you mentioned in your post. Never did Jesus say that all our prayers would be granted as we wish. We must pray according to God’s Will. If we pray for something that is against the will of God, that prayer will always be answered with a NO. God knows us better than we know ourselves, and He will not give us something that will not good for us. And if your mind is set on not becoming a Christian, then God will NEVER force Himself on anyone! That choice is yours. God knows everything, past, present, & future. If He knows that one will never accept Him, and His Son’s payment for all sins, then God will leave you alone. God knows all that are His, and not a single one of His will be lost. God most certainly DOES exist, and He Loves YOU more than anyone can comprehend! He also knows if you will accept or reject Him in the future. (He knows your choice, and He will honor your choice, whatever you chose…”

Free will

Dale, your reply indicates that you don’t know what the bible says and that is not an uncommon thing when it comes to Christians.  Where in the bible does it say one has the free will to accept or reject Jesus?  I’m very familiar with the bible, having read it in its entirety as a Christian and as not, and I don’t recall where it says there is free will.  You are most welcome to show me wrong.  I do remember where it says that God chooses some people to believe and some people not to believe (Romans 9) and where the character JC says that he/his god intentionally makes it impossible for some to accept and understand his words. This would not indicate free will.  There are also the many instances of this god interfering with humans which also indicates no free will (I’m going with the often used definition that we somehow can make decisions and act without influence of any kind or at least no superpowereful divine influences).   Considering that this god controlled the actions of many e.g. Pharoah, and removed the choices from many e.g. David’s son, there is again no evidence for free will. Perhaps you define free will differently. Please do explain. Continue reading

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – and one more instance of Christians telling just a little lie, Franklin Graham

Franklin Graham,  the son of Billy Graham, famous American Christian evangelist, was in Harrisburg today.   It was part of his tour insisting that one needs to pray for America.  He didn’t endorse a candidate, but it’s not hard to know who he wants to win, mostly because he has said it himself despites the claims to the contrary “Asked whether Mr Trump might be his preferred candidate, Rev Graham told ABC’s “This Week” program: “Sure, yes.”

“When I first saw that he was getting in, I thought, well, this has got to be a joke,” Rev Graham said. “But the more you listen to him, the more you say to yourself, you know, maybe this guy’s right.”

The same kind of person like himself, who makes false claims about how horrible things are in the US,  about the president of the US, and who is sure that making the US a Christian theocracy is just a peachy idea.

Graham, true to form, was ginning up more fear.

“If we’re not careful, we’re going to lose our religious freedom anyway, so we might as well go ahead and get people out there and vote and get them to vote by the busloads,” he said. “Make sure people are registered in their churches, and I’m talking about registered. Get your grandparents, your children, grandchildren; just don’t go to the graveyard and start digging up your ancestors. Don’t do that. People have done that. That’s not right. Anybody of legal age, get them out there to vote.”

Because, you know,  being persecuted for being Christian and losing your religious freedom looks exactly like this. Hundreds, if not thousands of Christians standing in a state owned park created to honor military personnel,  right across from the state capitol building, in an area that has ten pages of churches in its yellow pages, in a country that has hundreds of media outlets devoted to Christianity.

photo from ABC27

photo from ABC27

 

 

Chalking

I like this… (reblogged from We Play Our Roll)

A friend of mine sent me this link and the associated video.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/13/ivy-league-student-brought-to-tears-by-trump-chalking-video/

His attitude was “Ha Ha, look at what wimps the young liberals are turning out to be.”

Well, I wasn’t sure what “chalking” was, although I had a pretty good idea.  A little research brought up this: from another campus where chalking occurred.

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/04/09/chalking-pro-trump-messages-set-off-storms/

“Also on April 5, chalk messages were written on the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign campus. They included, “They have to go back #Trump,” “Build the Wall” and “Trump Deportation Force.”

The messages appeared near the campus’ Latina/Latino Studies building.”

Chalking is not the exchange of ideas, it’s done to intimidate.
This is not just pro trump, the messages and locations are not an accident.
Hate speech should be distinguished from free speech.
Lets not forget that the Hitler youth were fond of scrawling slogans on walls…
“Wir hassen die Juden und Ausländer”…

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What the Boss Likes – an update on the subway cards from Ray Comfort

Posted Monday on his Facebook:

“We just gave $18,000 worth of Subway cards to the homeless here in LA. What have you been up to?

Pic. “E.Z.” Zwayne (President of Living Waters) giving out one of my books and Subway gift cards to the homeless at the Los Angeles Union Rescue Mission. They encouraged us to preach to guests over lunch. They were very receptive and grateful for both the preaching and the cards.”

Only $7,000 more to go.   It’s a good thing that they are donated.  It’s a shame that the cards come with a price.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – beating back the theocrats again, Pennsylvania

control-of-the-Republican-party-and-theyre-sure-trying-to-do-so-its-going-to-be-a-terrible-damn-problem_-Frankly-these-people-frighten-me_-Barry-GoldwaterHere, in my lovely home state of Pennsylvania, the PA House of Representatives has been sued by some residents for not allowing a secular e.g. non-theist based invocation before the body. The suit, brought by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, American Atheists, and members of various local groups here in PA, is brought because the PA HR has refused to allow a secular invocation.

The US Supreme Court decided in 1983 that bodies like the PA HR can start their business with an invocation, so this is not to stop invocations. It is to stand up for equal representation, requiring such bodies to acknowledge that not only their pet religion be allowed to stand up in front of them and be counted. The PA Senate allowed a secular invocation, but the House is notoriously conservative and goes out of its way to advocate for Christian, and Christian only, legislation like requiring In God We Trust be in public schools, that the Bible be the official book, and other theocratic nonsense. That is not to say every House member is a wannabe theocrat but a large number of them are.

Now, the invocations that are proposed are to follow. My question to my theist readers is why this should not be allowed? Why would a house member (unsurprisingly a Republican and the Speaker) hide behind this?

“Nowhere [in the Supreme Court decision of Greece v. Galloway] did we see any language which would require legislative bodies to allow nonbelievers to address the opening of legislative bodies in lieu of an opening prayer by a regular chaplain. It is our opinion, that while the Court encouraged a diversity of prayer givers, we do not believe that government bodies are required to allowed non-adherents or nonbelievers the opportunity to serve as chaplains.”

And why do the leaders of the HR try to use security to force obedience to their religion: Continue reading

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – AU blog post “Texas Theocrat Says Voting For Trump Is OK Because God Has ‘A Different Standard’”

Amazing the excuses that some Christians will use.

“David Barton, the Religious Right’s favorite phony historian, is trying to sell his base on voting for Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump. But where most of Barton’s allies have resorted to pumping up Trump by dumping on Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, Barton acknowledges Trump’s flaws – but says they don’t matter because Trump has been chosen by God to lead the United States.

Furthermore, Barton says, if you don’t vote for Trump, God might hold you accountable.” – http://au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/desperate-plea-texas-theocrat-says-voting-for-trump-is-ok-because-god-has-a

Barton is a notorious liar in history, politics and religion.  He does serve as a great example of a TrueChristian and I have to thank him for demonstrating just how idiotic the Christian god is by listing all of the bad choices for leaders this god made.

 

Addendum:  and now another Christian pastor is sure that Trump is here to prepare the way for JC and the “end times”.  http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/trump-christian-liaison-god-raised-trump-help-pave-way-second-coming

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – American “values” and Trump’s usual idiocy

trump nz“We should only admit in this country those who share our values and respect our people.  Trump added, “The time is overdue to develop a new screening test.” (all quotes from this site).

And he has no idea what this screening test would be.   How does one tell if someone is simply lying?   I’m guessing this twit is sure that he can see into someone’s soul, like Duhbya claimed of Putin and how great a guy he was.

What are these “values”?    And if we keep people out of the country for not sharing these values, what happens to those people who are deemed not sharing those values who are citizens of the US?  Do they lose their rights if not agreeing with the dithering of Trump?

Especially those people who don’t follow what Trump says here “At the same time, Trump said his administration “will speak out against the oppression of women, gays and people of different beliefs”

His base are those people who are all for oppressing women, oppressing homosexuals, oppressing anyone who doesn’t follow the religion that they do.  From what he says, he has no intention of representing their desires.

Of course, he doesn’t even stand by this, with his own attacks on Clinton,  and using all of the dog whistles that say that she’s not fit to be president because she a woman or as he said “He also added that Clinton “lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on ISIS and many of the adversaries we face.”   How hilariously Victorian.  Alas, reality shows that he’s wrong and lying again.

As usual, this man shows he is has no idea what he is saying and his followers evidently don’t care or are too stupid to notice.   Lies and ignorance are what drive his campaign and it’s sad that so many accept what he says without a single thought.