Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – wannabee theocrats marching in DC today

what pro-control people want women to believe

what pro-control people want women to believe

Today there is a “march for life” in Washington, DC. There are a lot of women there, who insist that they are feminists. There may be some men who also would claim this, since being a feminist isn’t limited by sex. They all declare that they are “for life”, aka against abortion and birth control.

These people want to control others, and that is all they want to do. They want to tell women that they can’t. They can’t make their own decisions. They can’t believe what they want. They can’t be trusted to be intelligent enough to know what they want. They aren’t feminists, they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Feminism isn’t about telling a woman “no”. It’s about knowing that a woman can make her own decisions and that supporting women is important.

These wannabee theocrats demand that their opinion become law, that no one may choose to disagree with them. They want women to be punished for daring to make their own decisions and not obeying them. They claim that women need their help because of a myth with a talking snake. Most, if not all of them, want their particular version of one religion to be the law of the land, conservative Christianity. Of course, they can’t agree on which version of Christianity they want. They may insist that each other is doing to hell for accepting the Pope, for not accepting the Pope, for being baptized in one way or another, being divorced or not divorced, but they are harnessed in the same yoke for this one reason, in their pure hypocrisy.

They want to claim that they are for life, but they are against anything that would help the children that they wish forced on others to live. They are for punishment and obedience. They support the murder and terrorism of those who believe different than they do. They want no assistance be given to assure that these children have healthy food and a safe home. They want to keep families from having affordable health insurance. They want no assistance given to assure that these children have a good education, no matter if they are wealthy or poor . They want none but their religion taught to these children and they want only the families they approve of to take care of these children. They depend on lying to women to convince them to have children, intentionally misleading women by how they name their services. After the uterus is vacated, they are not interested.

Caring for another isn’t important at all, only forcing a woman to bear a child she cannot support, either financially or emotionally. They pretend that their churches will help these women but every shelter everywhere is desperate for money despite that there are pages upon pages of churches and other religious organizations in the phone book. They haven’t taken care of these families so far, so why should anyone believe that they will now?

These conservative Christians prate that this god would never give a woman more than she could handle, but they turn their heads when these women harm or kill themselves and their children because they could not handle those things, no matter how much they prayed and others prayed for them. They needed real help and that real help requires that people support them through real resources, resources payed by taxes and given to everyone, not just people who agree with the taxpayers or obey the rules of a religion that has no more evidence that it is true than any other religion.

These people want to take over the government, and force their religion on everyone. For all of their false claims of being unable to make their own choices, they do their best to remove the ability to choose from others. For all of their false claims of being pro-life, they do their best to ensure that those lives suffer as much as possible.

Hypocrisy personified, when this woman thinks she is being silenced and she’s walking down streets in the nation’s capital saying  exactly what she wants.


Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – 960,000 tons of what?

sabbathI’ve been crossing swords with a particularly tenacious Christian, “scientific christian” (you already know where things are going with that screen name) and the discussion has gone far and wide, though mostly staying around the idea of having evidence supports one’s claims. My apologies for anyone who commented in that thread and has thus been caught in the post storm. WordPress really needs to work on allowing people to disengage from comment threads.

Thanks to SC, I’ve discovered some pretty amusing claims in the bible (and that some Christians are unrepentant liars but I already knew that). SC is quite sure that the “exodus” happened and there was an “empty tomb” amongst other things. He’s also just as sure that the bible is wrong when it claims that there was hundreds of thousands of Israelites coming out of Egypt after the supposed exodus. He’s a great example of a Christian cherry-picking things when reality shows that their claims aren’t true. Suddenly, the bible and its multitude of supposedly deity-inspired translators are wrong, and obscure websites are correct when they claim only a few thousands left, because, you see, there is no evidence for 600,000 men plus the women, children and animals.

But to the fun stuff!

In the story of the exodus related in Numbers, we have the following: Numbers 11 “Now a wind went out from the Lord and drove quail in from the sea. It scattered them up to two cubits deep all around the camp, as far as a day’s walk in any direction. 32 All that day and night and all the next day the people went out and gathered quail. No one gathered less than ten homers. Then they spread them out all around the camp. 33 But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague.” (this story is also in Exodus 16. FYI, this is from the NASB bible)

So we have an area of approximately 706 square miles (15 miles is about what a person can walk in a day) covered 6 feet deep in quail. And per the bible, every man gathered a little shy of 2 tons of the quail. This would be, if my calculations are correct, 960,000 tons of quail.

And this isn’t the all the quail. That was just what was collected. As a cubic footage, we have approximately 1.180811 cubic feet of quail, or 118,080,000,000 cubic feet of quail. If one assumes the average quail as 9” x 5” x 5” this means that there are 15,350,400,000 individual quails and if each weighs about 6 oz (large for quail but we can afford to give a bit), we get about 2,878,200 tons of quail. Even if one assumes that the quails weren’t even, and assume 3 feet deep, we still get 1,439,100 tons of quail.

The middens would be full of quail bones and human poo, amongst other things.

Now on to the poo!

In Exodus, the Israelites are told to bury their feces because their god might notice in them, Deuteronomy 23: “12 “You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, 13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement. 14 Since the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy; and He must not see anything indecent among you or He will turn away from you.” Doesn’t speak very well for its omniscience, eh?

Humans poop about 125 grams a day. With 600,000 men, we get 37 tons of poo a day and that isn’t even counting the women, children and animals, grass eaters that poop a *lot*.

The “exodus” should have quite a bit of evidence for it, 40 years worth of garbage. It has none and Christians like SC, are reduced to claiming that just a few thousand left Egypt, while simultaneously stuck with the claims of the rest of the OT where Israel could field armies in the hundreds of thousands.

(admittedly, I suck at math. Feel free to check my calculations and correct me.)

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “churches deserve protection from those who would harm worshippers.”

lightningbecause well, God just doesn’t do anything except show up in toast and stains.


Way to go Gov, show us that unshakeable faith!  Lightning rods and now guns???

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life[b]? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?

27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be als0.35 “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Do you get the feeling some Christians don’t read their bible?  Or believe in it?


Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – another in a long line of typical exchanges between a Christian and me

I’ve had a TrueChristian(tm) on this website, Jedi of Christ, who has made promises of evidence and then ended up doing nothing more than making threats using bible verses.  He has ended with a post that is typical of a TrueChristian and I thought this would be another good example of how to address the baseless claims of theism.  This is of course a long post.  Read at your own peril 🙂

His post is as such (I cleaned it up a bit for coherence) :

“Hmm… You rather believe a lie, than truth? Thier is much philosophical, and scientific observational evidence, to point to an intelligent designer… The best argument is the fine tuning of the world, of the stars and the logicality of life, which logically can only exist from a logical source… Random chance (string theory) and a mass of nothing cannot create the logical fine tuning of existence. To say thier is no evidence for thesim is rather oblivious on your part and makes me question your sincerity for finding truth. If you truly are a person after the 4 fundamental questions, why am I here? What is my purpose? Who am I? Where am I going? You won’t leave any stone unturned.
Science though is not the truth, though it points to a Creator. Any honest scientist would tell you that. Here is an example DNA, we know it is information and that it is a language of it self, it is impossible for information and language to be in any place without logically knowing some one put it there.
You know a human being writes this message because one thier is no other race on earth that does this, and because what I am sharing is understandable to you… But have you asked your self? How can I understand the words on this message the information it entails… You see the word apple and you know it is not nothing, there is information from the word. That word… Such can only come from a logical source.
We need the language to read the information and the information to read the language. And such can only come from an intelligence
Science can never prove GOD, but science truly if its procedure is honest points, to a Creator.
The Bible has scientifical facts in it dating from over 3000 years. Mr Lister the inventor of listeren was under much mockery, my his pairs when he decided to follow what the Bible says about hygien… When he implemted it in his work ethics. But when the scoffers saw that Lister clinical death rates were significantly less than thier own the whole science community implemented his hygien procedures. The medical community literally dates before and after Lister.
The founders of modern science, Kepla, Galileo, Newton and more were all theist, they focused on thier educational field because they knew the Universe was logical and their was a designer the GOD of the Bible.
They are scientist that are Christian… The naturallitic philosophy which is the belief all atheist whole and thus thier religious beliefs in a none Creator but rather that nature is Supreme and made it self, is very unswaying knowing the basic law of cause and effect… Nature is not an intelligence so it can’t make intelligence. Nature is an effect from a cause and I believe you know, it is very much recognized that the Universe had a beginning.
Now I hear people say GOD He is the god of the gaps, and I believe science has done great things to get rid of superstition in Greece zeus was the god of lightning… That is how the Greeks other than Socrates and I believe other Greek philosopher s that oppose the pagan worship of this days. Rationalize how those things happen… Of course now we know it had to do with electrons and protons etc. And that the wind has weight,which interestingly the Bible talks about over 3000. Years ago.
The major difference between those god  Of the gaps, and the Christian theistic GOD who is Infinite and eternal is that He made all things… Now the Bible has scientifically facts in it and Prophecy which wasn’t put in after, dead sea scroll is just one evidence how it wasn’t. The whole source of the Bible is GOD making contact with us, giving us these 4 fundamental questions. If. Some one bakes bread we can see that they did, but we cant know why they bake the bread unless they tell us. GOD is giving us that why, through His written word. GOD isn’t hiding Himself in fact He made Himself known… And to have a Bible in this time with all the cannonize scripture is amazing, because if people know just a little history of the Bible, they will know it wasn’t so easily accessible. And Prophecy speaks of this. The GOD of the Bible isn’t a created god of stone or wood, or imagination. He is Spirit and Eternal and Infinite and we know they must be an infinite they are finite beings and a created universe they must be an infinite or else nothing here could have existed to begin with. And logically thier can only be one Infinite.
John Lennox, Ravi Zachrisas, Creation ministry International are excellent apologetic source for Christianity.
I’ve heard of the athiest side of things, ultimalty… It’s not what a man thinks we should follow, it is what is true. I know GOD is real the Bible has been under much challenge and has come out victorious every time. I will bet my life on the Bible… It is the chief of all studies the difference between everladting life with the CREATOR of all things who is Infinite in wisdom, Holiness, and live in a world made new where thier is no more death and crying, sins. A world of peace and true love for one an other self sacrificing love, humility of heart… And kindness. I will die for that.
The Bible is fundamentally different than all religions but at best superficially similar. People say if thier is a GOD why does He allow all this death and pain and evil? All I can say, is that at the center of the Bible is a cross… Where GOD Himself came into this world of darkness and took part in our suffering.
Jesus Christ did exist many historians even outside the Bible have documented that. YouTube has a video on those historians.
The only way to know the pass is my historical science which is by documented historical facts, by historians. And we have one trustworthy historian who gave us through His written Word that He made the earth and everything in it.
That’s it for me, I won’t be messaging again.I know GOD is real but for you, if GOD is real… You know thier is no excuse for not seeking after His will and knowing what He wants of you and obeying what He wants… Because for you, If GOD is real then as Creator and Savior He has the right to commandments what He wants of His creations. I hope you don read this and end here… I hope you truly search for God, and If you do GOD promises you will find Him.”

 This how I addressed his claims. Baseless information can be written in a small amount of space; evidence does make for a long post.  I’ve also added links to the things the reader might want more information on.

No, there is not “much philosophical and scientific observation evidence” for your god or any god. I am amused that you default to intelligent designer and not your specific god, which would seem to indicate that you also know that your claims aren’t supportable that there is a Christian god and a magical messiah.

The fact that you think that “fine tuning” is the best evidence for a designer does show how lacking the evidence is. Considering that the world is largely uninhabitable by humanity, not to mention the rest of the universe, there is no reason to think that humans are favored by any omnipotent magical being at all. I suppose we could draw the conclusion your god is incompetent for making such vast stretches of universe utterly inimical to humans. Continue reading

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – my thoughts on “A History Of God”

Why-Believe-Something-Without-EvidenceOver on Hessian With Teeth’s blog, the authors have watched a documentary and asked for comments about it. The doc is “A History of God” based on the book by Karen Armstrong of the same name. Armstrong is a theist who wants to have her god but who doesn’t want the baggage it comes with.

The following is my stream of consciousness kibitzing written while watching it. It was going to be just a comment on the blog, but it quickly got out of hand.  🙂

Well, the first thing that struck me is that the doc, and probably the book, assumes that everyone believes in a singular god and we’re all just one happy family, which of course is not true, the reality being much more complicated. It’ strikes me as the same bs when Christians want to claim that everyone “really” believes in their god, in an attempt to co-opt every good and decent person in history to their “team”.

Ms. Armstrong makes the claim that we “can’t” worship like our ancestors. That is of course not true. There are plenty of people worshipping quite like their ancestors, and there are people worshipping as close to their ancestors as they can get. There has indeed been a change in worship for some people, like Ms. Armstrong, who do their best to redefine their god so they don’t have to be responsible for what their religion has done, and so they can ignore that their religion is based on just as many ridiculous things as those “pagan” religions were.

Hilarious that the one Lutheran fellow says that Agnes was a saint for breast cancer when that was entirely invented. Funny how he forgets that the Church claimed that sickness was from being unright with their god.

It does do a decent job of showing how belief in gods is nothing more than human fantasy and that the idea of Israelites as culture always separate is nonsense. If the OT claims are wrong, then there is little reason to believe in a god invented from that culture.   Armstrong’s attitude seems to be a bit condescending, rather like patting an ignorant child on the head.

It is interesting that the rabbi says that sacrifice is for when you really mean it, which does indicate that the resurrection is rather meaningless. It’s also rather amusing that the wrestling with God is now magically just a metaphor, but there is nothing to show this is what was thought by the authors.   It’s the usual invention by modern theists to claim that they know exactly what the ancient authors meant in one case, and claim to not know in another. Continue reading

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a review of “One Nation, Under Gods”

079-Superstition-is-the-foe-of-progress-650x310Recently, I had a short blog post about a new book I’ve read, One Nation, Under Gods.   I love the book, and thought I might write a longer post about it now. And I need to since I’m going to be lending it to my parents to read tomorrow.

One Nation, Under God is a new book by Peter Manseau, a writer who has his doctorate in religion from Georgetown University. This is a book that is definitely needed considering that many Christians in the US are doing their best to rewrite history to fit their fantasy that the US was founded as a “Christian Nation”, though of course they don’t agree on what a “Christian Nation” actually would be. The book presents the facts very well and is not favorable to any particular side.

The book’s strength is that it relates the changing religions in the US, and to a lesser degree, the whole of North America, to the politics and culture of the times. It starts us in 1492, bringing in the state of European religions to how it affected the urge to colonize the New World. From the likely hidden Jews on Columbus’ ships, forced into a masquerade by the murderous Roman Catholics in Spain, to the Muslim slaves of the conquistadors, and the native Americans, we have how religion mix, mesh and change, showing that no religion has some inviolate “truth”.

Next is the immigration of the various northern sects of Christianity coming in from Europe, those who were sure that their versions of Christianity were the only “pure” ones. They, of course, promptly decided that anyone who disagreed with them once they crossed the Atlantic needed to be killed or to be banished from the colonies that they established.   Their quest for a free place to worship was an entirely selfish desire that they would do anything to forbid anyone else access to. Their various “shining cities on the hill” were bastions of fear of the “other”.   We do have the surprising story that Cotton Mather, famous from his sermons often included in Early American Literature classes, trying to encourage the use of a native African superstition which was essentially vaccination to stop smallpox, an awful disease that killed Mather’s family. Mather’s slave, renamed Onesimus after the slave that Paul returned to his master, told him of this practice. Mather did his best to encourage his society to do this but felt the sting of rejection for his new ideas because any attempt at relieving disease was considered going against the will of his god and his god’s divine judgment.

We also had Jews migrating in this period since they were persecuted by most other contries that had some form of Christianity as the state religion. For example, Jews were forbidden in England for 300 years. In the book, it describes the plight of Jews that had to leave a South American colony that had changed hands between the Netherlands and Portugal. With Portugal came the Inquisition, so they begged passage to New Amsterdam aka New York City. They were nearly kept from there too, until the Jewish backers of the Dutch traders threatened to pull their backing.

Continue reading

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “What does God need with a starship?”

ReligionIt’s been awhile since I blogged about the claims of Rabbi Gellman of the one person God Squad. But today we have a curious column from him in my local paper. The title comes from Star Trek: The Final Frontier, where Captain James T. Kirk encounters a god, something that happens with some regularity to the crew of the Enterprise. Kirk suffers gods no more willingly than I do.

In Gellmans’s column, it’s the problem of evil.   The basic point of the column is it’s all the fault of humans.   The rabbi scolds the querent, how dare he question this god when he should just sit there and take it because it’s God’s will. The querent should be like Job, accept any misery as a “test” of his faith or should accept that any misery is God’s plan and that God’s ways are “mysterious”.   (my paper’s column was quite truncated, but the whole thing appears at the link.)

There are some large problems here:

  1. Why does a supposedly omniscient god need to test anyone for? It would already know the answer, so the murder of Job’s family, servants and animals serves no purpose at all. A good review of the book of Job is here.
  2. Why does a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and often claimed omnibenevolent, god need misery to make anything happen? It appears that it cannot think of alternatives or implement them.  This would make any claims of all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving wrong.

Gellman goes on to insist that anyone who questions the claims of Christians is “angry” with God. I suppose that might be true, if this god actually exists. Imagine a human that tested people when it knew the answer and tested by killing their families. Would you be angry with them? Or that said that your child needed to get agonizing bone cancer, and, honest, it would make everything better in some undefined way but never showed how this worked or that it did at all. Would you be angry with them?

Would you question?

Rabbi Gellman quotes Archibald MacLeish “If God is great, he is not good. If God is good, he is not God. Take the even, take the odd.” This is from MacLeish’s play “J.B.” (it’s about Job, with a much better ending which you can see in the plot summary) which rather than saying that it’s not God’s fault, it appears to say in context, that there is no point in a god that is this impotent or evil. It shows that Christianity doesn’t agree on what God does and why. It broaches the question, if this god is touted as constantly helping people in the bible, why doesn’t it do the same things now?

Gellman next offers the usual, “It’s your fault” claims, where humans make the wrong choices, which can be true, we can choose to pollute, etc. He does admit that it is a problem when natural disasters happen, but then it’s all our fault because we “get in the way”. He argues that we choose to live in danger zones; since there is no place on earth not in a “danger zone” from something. it’s rather hard to avoid them. If God made the earth, this god is rather inept at making a safe place for its supposed loved ones to live.  Recently, a Anglican reverend said to me that she found pointing out lack of reason in her religion disrespectful.   With this kind of lack of reason in religion, it’s someone’s duty to point it out before someone gets hurt by a similar lack of reason.

The next odd is where Gellman says that, well, let’s see the whole paragraph: “Genetic mutations that cause stillbirths or genetic diseases occur because that’s the way our genetic material sorts through mutations and achieves the natural selection that has made our brains larger and made us more perfectly adapted to the needs of our evolving species. They are part of God’s perfect design for adaptable life”. Perfect? I’ll be blunt, that’s a fucking strange definition of the word. This god is now responsible for evolution, but is somehow too inept to make it better than it is, which strikes me as a prelude into the “best possible world argument” that does its best to depower this god from the omni-whatever that the bible claims. This god hasn’t been able to figure out what humans have, how to have the good without the bad and how to fix what the rabbi now seems to claim that God screwed up in the first place.

He says that we should save our anger for the way we treat each other and not for how God treats us. I’ll say that I’m not angry at this version of the Jewish god, but I’d find it pathetic if real, considering all of the claims made about such an inept being.