Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a bit of nostalgia and still no effects from prayers by professionals

Way back in September 2014, I offered a challenge to a professional Christian and self-proclaimed prophet, Bill Keller.  This was about the challenge he offered to a Muslim leader regarding that old testament contest in 1 Kings 18. Now during that interaction, I was promised that I would be prayed for.  He of course ran away from the challenge.

Surprise, nothing happened despite claims of “Know that I am praying for you, be richly blessed.”  Now, why would such a prayer fail?  It seems that this god doesn’t like this fellow, this fellow isn’t praying correctly, this god likes me as I am, or this god doesn’t exist.

A few months shy of four years….hmmm.  No surprise that Keller supports Trump, a liar, an adulterer, a cheat, and who finds that nazis are “fine people”.  He gives the same excuses that all of his fellow evangelicals give. And he has no problem ignoring his bible when it actually gives some not horrible advice

“The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold,
    but the Lord tests the heart.
An evildoer listens to wicked lips;
    and a liar gives heed to a mischievous tongue.
Those who mock the poor insult their Maker;
    those who are glad at calamity will not go unpunished.
Grandchildren are the crown of the aged,
    and the glory of children is their parents.
Fine speech is not becoming to a fool;
    still less is false speech to a ruler.

In that Bill’s prophecies have failed, is he up for a stoning?

“Because I shared what God showed me (“Under President Kerry, God’s definition of marriage will no longer exist, legal steps will be taken to insure our nation will ALWAYS be in the business of murdering innocent babies, we will continue to see God taken out of every aspect of the daily life of this nation, and Christians will come under greater persecution than we ever thought possible. God is going to give the people exactly what they ask for and because of our gross wickedness, we will see more natural disasters, more attacks on U.S. soil by those who want to destroy us, and the nation will endure great economic hardships as God unleashes His judgment on our nation.”), I have been accused of working for John Kerry, of causing people not to vote, and for being the reason if President Bush is not re-elected. First, if you read ALL that I wrote Monday, I clearly outlined the spiritual abyss this nation will fall into under a Kerry administration. *As I do every year, I will mobilize a massive prayer effort that will be well over 2 million people this year to pray for men and women after God’s heart to be elected and encourage people to get out and vote for those people who will help to bring our nation back to Biblical principles. Lastly, it will be God who determines who the next President is, not Bill Keller.

I am also very well aware that Pat Robertson has predicted President Bush will win in a landslide. The fact is, on November 9th, either Pat Robertson or Bill Keller will be wrong. I have clearly stated in the past that the penalty for a false prophet is to be stoned to death. I support that standard and am willing, I wonder if Pat is. Like most who say they hear from God and have been wrong, Pat has always found an excuse why he was wrong and just keeps on going. The fact is, God is NEVER WRONG. One of us is a false prophet! I will make NO EXCUSES.”

Nah, he just hoped that no one would remember. He’s still lying and still begging for money, like all wannabee televangelists.  Congrats, Bill, you are just like Joel Osteen with your failure.

 

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Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – We ate that apple or did we?

by J.M. Green http://www.debunking-christianity.com/2013/08/prayer-failed-for-jesus.html

Recently, I found a post on another blog about what Christians could learn from atheists.   This was on a blog for self-described millennial Christians.   It was an article written by John Garay, who has his own blog.

It was an interesting post, with some honest compliments but most the usual claims of how “rebellious” atheists were and how sinful that is. It also underlined just how much Christians are completely sure that those “other” Christians are entirely wrong (whether to follow those pesky commandments is a sticking point for Christians). Each generation is sure that they are the ones who have it right, entirely unaware that their attitude is nothing new. We went through this in the 80’s where evangelicals thought they had the right answer, and now they are seen as the staid and ignorant old guard by these new Christians. Of course, the new Christians have the same issues as the old, especially when it comes to their shiny new magic decoder rings that they are sure tell them what their god “really” meant.

We have this as what the author has as lessons learned from atheists;

  1. It’s good to “do good,” simply because it’s the right thing to do.
  2. Love is best experienced when you love someone simply because of who they are, not for what they believe in.
  3. The opinions of others are never a “good enough” reason to cause you to doubt what you believe. (which is nice but misses the point that atheist often don’t have opinions, but facts which Christians do not).

Which are all pretty good things.

But…

Then we have this, as the author’s response to someone who thinks atheists are “evil”.

“She stopped sobbing for a quick second to ask a question: “Weren’t you taught that atheists are evil?” I chuckled to myself and responded, “What I’ve been taught is that evil and rebellion are part of our human nature. Thanks to Adam and Eve we inherited this mess. In fact, it was for this very reason that Jesus came to earth… He came to redeem a fallen humanity… We just all express evil differently depending where we are at in life.”

Hmmm, nothing new there at all, the author agreeing that us atheists are “evil” and “rebellious”.   One would think that the author never actually chatting with an atheist, despite his claims of having atheists as friends and family members.

Now, since the bible says that all humanity knows what good and evil are, from that fruit episode, I know I’m not evil. It’s interesting that Christians would continue to claim this if they know the same good and evil too. So, for that apple, we have had a multitude claims of what evil and it changes every generation or so.  The most bizarre thing is, that this god never wanted us to know good and evil at all.  We were to be obedient, nothing more.  If we know good and evil, well, then we might use that knowledge to question.  And happily, some of us do.

I had commented on this blog and pointed out that despite what some Christians thought, it was no compliment to be compared to their god and to be told that their god was “in” us too. That, unsurprisingly, was not accepted well. I was also told that I didn’t understand Christianity or the correctly.

I was asked that if I wanted to discuss this blog entry, some of the comment participants would be willing but via email. I’m going to guess that my non-believer readers might already know where this is going. Despite the acceptance by myself and my one discussion partner (I had two, and they may identify themselves if they want) that we would answer any questions that the other may have, that ended when I asked:

““what makes you think your god is real and all others aren’t?  Anything you find the strongest answer? “

And this was the response:

“It’s okay for us to continue to disagree with each other, but attacking the belief is not an act of friendship and hard to build a relationship from.”

Now, this was after I answered this person’s question to me: ““Question: What is the biggest factor in your belief that God isn’t real?”

What the different is between them asking me what amounts to the same question seems to be no more than they have to actually make a statement and have it open for criticism.

This is not a new answer from someone who was sure that they could discuss something with an atheist. It could be very nearly verbatim from one of a hundred Christians I’ve debated over the years. And it entirely misses the point of what the blog post’s author said in his third point.

This ended with claims that I somehow hate this god, hate Christians, that I only want to “win”, false claims that I wasn’t willing “even attempt to understand one another”, that I don’t correctly interpret the bible that they claim other Christians don’t interpret correct and can’t tell me why I should accept their version, etc. I’ve toyed with the idea of writing down the usual steps of how a discussion goes with a believer since they almost always hit the same marks when they realize that they may have to think about and defend their claims.

So, as history has shown, we get new versions of the supposed objective truth multiple times a generation, and each sect is sure that those others are wrong, in most, if not all religions.

Now, Christians, tell us: what makes you think your god is real and all others aren’t?  Anything you find the strongest answer?  And why should we accept your version when you won’t accept each others? Why do you find these questions and the existence of atheists so terribly threatening?

You wonder why people are leaving Christianity.  Behavior like this certainly can’t help.

Addedum- Mr. Eli has replied in comments.  Consider if you will, reader, if you didn’t know about religion.  Would you accept such responses if you were considering joining Christianity?

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – reblogging a Christian bit of nonsense: The meaning of meaninglessness

This post came to my attention when Pastor Mike liked this post of mine.  It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense that a Christian would like it, but I often encounter Christians who seem a little confused in what they profess to believe and what they actually believe.

Nothing like watching a TrueChristian(tm) do his best to bear false witness against others and have no clue about cause and effect. It’s a shame that Pastor Mike does claim to have all of the answers and claim that only his version of Christianity is the right one, with not one more shred of evidence than those who he decries. I am glad that he does admit that atheists wield logical arguments against his claims.  Alas, Pastor Mike falsely believes that atheists are all nihilists and in his ignorance, he trips himself up.

No wonder that Christianity is losing members when a Christian leader demonstrates that intentional dishonesty and ignorance are what he depends on.  You can see how Pastor Mike failed earlier on this blog.

Update – 4/13  One also has to wonder about Pastor Mike when he likes my post on his blog which is the following: “well, Pastor Mike, glad that a pastor agrees with my post here: https://clubschadenfreude.com/2018/02/18/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-what-makes-christianity-christianity/  Always curious that a Christian would agree with what I’ve said, I wonder what your flock would say.  As for your claims “You have kicked God out of schools, so kids are turning to insanity to imbue their lives with some semblance of the significance you robbed out of life.”  For what is supposedly an omnipotent being, this poor god can be stopped by a human, per Pastor Mike.  Not much of a god, is it?  It’s nice to see you make such claims, when this god can’t even protect its own churches and keep its priests and pastors from abusing children, embezzling, etc right where it supposedly can get in where it wants.  As usual, you are so desperate to bear false witness against others, you dont’ think your claims through.”    What kind of fractured thinking goes with this? I do wonder if Pastor Mike thinks he is being sarcastic.

Mustard Seed Budget

imagesActually, snorting condoms makes perfect sense. As does chewing Tide pods. Along with cutting.

After all, if there is no meaning to life, then why not engage in something meaningless? If an attempt to find value shows your stupidity, then all we have left is getting attention through stupid means.

Atheists will bristle at my mockery, but their insistence that morality is an evolved feature — along humanity’s unusual drive for significance — is absurd. There is no evolutionary sense of morality or man’s quest for importance. Deprive man of God, and you get teens snorting condoms.

images-1And please, my dear atheist friends, don’t tell the gunman plowing down schoolchildren that he is inherently or obviously wrong. What is obvious is that there are no morals, no values, nothing. That is all atheism has to offer: nothing. There is no noble sense to humanity, no purpose, no beauty, no humanity…

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Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Exodus redux

yes, there are indeed cruxifix chocolate molds and plague finger puppets. Yay, dead people! Yeesh.

Lest anyone think that I have only issues with Christianity, here is the link to the first part of my Exodus series.  I look at the strange story of the exodus in the bible.

Passover is based on the idea of putting blood on doorways to avoid being killed by the angel of a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient being.  It needs blood to figure this out.  It is also based on the idea that it is moral and okay for this god to murder people who had no choice in the matter, over the actions of their god-king, which was forced into the issue by this god.

Here are also a couple of good blog articles by my friend John:

https://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/kadesh-barnea-gaza-the-exodus/

https://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/how-we-know-the-pentateurch-is-historical-fiction-11/

and one of my favorite posts of my own, just how many quail showed up: https://clubschadenfreude.com/2017/01/18/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-960000-tons-of-what/

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – FFRF’s Blog “Easter fools, April Fools and Jesus’ pundits”

FFRF has done a good blog on the nonsense of Easter.  I’m looking forward to the live broadcast of Jesus Christ Superstar on NBC tomorrow night.  I love the music and it is a good story.  It also is a great demonstration that the easter stories in the bible contradict each other quite a bit.  Gesthemane, one of the more touching parts of the bible, is no where to be found in the Gospel of John, and well, those thieves are missing from the rock opera and do various contradictory things in the stories.

I’m waiting for people to also freak out that JC is being played by a black man, John Legend.  Judas is also being portrayed as a black man, Brandon Victor Dixon (Judas has the best songs).  Herod is Alice Cooper, the rock star who some Christians were quite sure was going to end the world, or something, back in the 70’s.  Mr. Cooper also golfs and wears wonderfully tacky plaid pants while doing that.

There will also be a lot of people in church tomorrow, who have no problem with following a man who lies, cheats, brags about sexual assault, is a repeat adulterer, etc.  And these are the people who say that atheists treat this god as a “vending machine” whenwe point out that this god should answer prayers. They repeatedly ask for forgiveness for this idiot and themselves for giving him a “mulligan”.

Postscript – (4/2/18) – the live performance of Jesus Christ Superstar was a bit of a mess.

Pros – great singers. Alice Cooper makes a very good Herod.

Cons – too many freakin’ commercials.  Often it was like listening to a 45 record on 33 1/3, and Pontius Pilate looked like he’d more at home on the Hunger Games.   The Glen Carter version from 2000 is much better.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a lovely quote about followers of gods

“Of course, if one had played more RPGs, one would have realized that shacking up with people whose goal is “fulfill the ancient prophecies so that my dead god might rule once more over the earth, and cull those not among our cult” is rarely a good idea.” – from some well spoken person on a RPG forum.   If you know who this is, please let me know.

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – this year Easter is on April Fool’s Day

Problems not only geology but animals. Happy Lent!

Hello, I’ve changed my wordpress theme for my blog since it was getting a little hard to read, even for me, with the grey on black.  If it’s a little too big for you, you can change your zoom on your web browser.

I’ve done various posts about Easter over the years I’ve been blogging.   The story of the crucifixion and resurrection is even more contradictory than the Christmas story, with events claimed to have happened in one gospel which would preclude events happening in other gospels.  What we generally get is a version that combines whatever the Christian wants to claim, though its a synthesis of all four gospels plus Acts.   I was watching Rick Steves’ travel special on how Easter is celebrated in Europe and he gave a version that mixed everything together and ignored the problematic bits.  It was still a very good special, and worth sitting through the pledge breaks to see it.

People like me, who question Christianity and its claims, often get told that the details don’t matter when we point out the repeated contradictions in the Easter story.   That is a common answer for a lot of questions about Christianity, we shouldn’t question why things are so screwy.  In a recent God Squad column, Rabbi Gellman answers a question from a high school student: “Hi, I am a junior at Mercy High School in Middletown, Conn. I wanted to say how happy I am to know that there is someone out there willing to answer questions from teenagers. Not a lot of adults do. My theology class enjoys reading your articles and reflecting on them every day. My question is does God punish wrongdoings like people say?”

And what is Gellman’s answer?  “This is my answer: IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER. It doesn’t matter whether or not God punishes evil or rewards goodness because on the highest level of human virtue is the understanding that goodness is its own reward and evil is its own punishment.”

However, it does matter.  If this god doesn’t do as the bible claims, both in the OT and NT, then there is no reason to believe in the books or the god.  This god is claimed to be the judge and jury on what is good and evil and this god repeatedly hands out punishment in the bible.  Now, what the rabbi seems to be doing here is finding an excuse to ignore the question by the student because if he says that this god does punish evil, the next question is “How?”  “Where?” and most importantly “When?”   And since the rabbi cannot show that this god does anything at all, much less punishing the wicked and helping the good, he finds himself with a problem.  In reality, there is no divine intervention to show that this god exists or gives a damn about morality.  Indeed, we can see that this god’s morals change with how humans change, not the other way around.

Gellman tries to avoid the problem by insisting that people should be good because being good is the “right thing to do”, it’s beneficial, etc.   Well then no one needs this god at all.  There is no need for a blood sacrifice to appease a god for humans being just as this god would know they would be.  The whole thing is nonsense.

I would challenge the Christians who read my blog to actually read the gospels and Acts and consider the discrepancies in the stories, e.g. number of angels, what JC did, etc.  If the most important story for your religion is so screwed up, then why should anyone believe it?

Other posts on Easter, with more juicy details:

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – what has become the annual easter post

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Easter, the supposed events and implications

What the Boss Likes – welcome to Easter, syncretic religion at its best

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – that ol’ war on Easter