Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a Christian post for posterity

I’ve stumbled upon a person, KC Sunbeam (not sunshine, but still a crank). Their latest post is quite a doozy, especially with their tagline: “This Unique Person and Social Pariah tackles society’s problems with intellectual accuity.”

Some pertinent parts.
“1-2) “Is Anne Frank burning in Hell right now? How about Mahatma Gandi?” A: Nobody is presently burning in Hell since damnation will not happen until after the Judgment. If
Anne or Gandhi lacked opportunity to know Christ, they can attain Heaven because they did not reject Him. But if they had adequate opportunity to know Christ, and perpetually rejected Him, they would be Hell-bound.”

So far, pretty typical.

“8) “If your child were dying, would you pray for them or take them to a doctor?” A: BOTH.

9) “Which has more of an impact?” A: The doctor, since he incorporates and submits to Gods’ laws of chemistry, physics, and science.”

Classic attempt to avoid the problem that their god does nothing.

“12) “If you have cancer, what will help more: drugs or prayer?” A: Neither; try chemotherapy.”

chemotherapy is a therapy using drugs.

“13) “Say you had a missing limb. Would prayer ever bring it back?” A: No. If God allowed it to be amputated, why would He contradict Himself by bringing it back?”

Good to know that God hurts people.

“25) “Was Jesus white?” A: Yes. Jewish White, not Gentile White. His lineage is documented as Jewish, and Jews look Caucasian, if you haven’t noticed.”


“27) “Why does God seem to hate Africa?” A: Africa does badly because it is populated with Negroes, who have inferior genetics, nothing more.”

Oh dear.

“45) “If God already sends people who act on homosexuality to Hell, why do many Christians feel the need to persecute them on Earth?” A: It is not many and the few who do are in violation of Christ’s attitude on that point.”

Oh dear again.

“70) “Can you pause the video and tell me what the Ten Commandments are?” A: Yes, but I won’t since they are not my standard of morality.”

Hmmm, funny how JC said that all of the commandments are the Christian standard for morality.

Well, thanks, KC for showing just how Christianity is evidently nothing more than a title that people give themselves to have some divine excuse for their opinion.

What the Boss Likes – the “rough men” quote and some metal

Those of you who have read my blog for a while know of my fondness for the “rough men” quote and my recently discovered fondness for metal music.

““People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” – attributed to many.

I stumbled upon Bloodywood on youtube. They did the song below since there is a big problem with rape in India. This is what real men do. (they do have trigger warnings at the beginning of the video). I am most definitely not a pacifist.

oh and here’s Lzzy Hale of Halestorm and The HU

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – attempts to declare one religion “better” doesn’t work out so well

I do love a completely clueless post by John Clayton, over at Does God Exist.  He tries very hard to declare that Christianity is ever so much better than Islam.

To give some background, John tries to claim that he was once an atheist who became a Christian because “science”.  Alas, not one thing about science says that one particular religion is true.  He’s also apparently an old earth creationist, who has no more evidence that nonsense is true than the young earth creationists.  Oh but he is quite proud to claim how wrong they are.   This is a man whose entire reason to believe in his god is a god of the gaps argument:  humans can’t explain everything, so “god” or in his words “I began to realize that science had its limitations — that science, in fact, strongly pointed to other explanations than natural ones to certain questions.”

This is a man who can’t give a name to the supposed “brilliant well known atheist” and geology professor who supposedly taught at Indiana University who said he would show how the bible is garbage.  This is simply a repetition of a common Christian story that comes up in movies like “God is Not Dead”.  Alas, no Christian has ever been able to show a single professor who supposedly did what they claim. 

John’s tendency to think he’s right and everyone else is wrong continues in all of his writings.  Most recently he claims how wrong Islam is and how right his version of Christianity is.  Of course, he is blind to the fact that he uses just as many baseless claims and conveniently ignores his bible when it makes just as silly claims as the qu’ran. 

First we start with John’s claim, as noted above that science showed him his god exists and not everything can be known by science.  Muslims use the same claims (contrast it with Christian attitudes), that there has to be a god since humans don’t know everything yet.  He also claims that he had no reason to think that the “right” god was the Christian one.  Hmmm, nothing but his entire culture being largely Christian. 

He also says he compared what JC ways and what Mo says and that told him who is the right one.  And thus tries to claim that Islam is wrong.

In addition to some scientific errors, the Koran has teachings that denigrate women. “

Hmmm, funny how the bible has these too.  

Here’s a few scientific errors:  Humans with lifespans in the multiple hundreds of years (John tries to claim that the term years wasn’t “really” meant by the bible authors).  Hailstones are kept in magic warehouses.  A worldwide flood.  A tower that this god is sure could reach it.  Sitting on a mountain would allow you to see all of the earth (that only would work on a flat earth), whales can carry men around inside them for 3 days, etc.    

Then, about women:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”  1 Corinthians 14

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.” 1 Timothy 2

I like that last one.  Eve at least was deceived by a superpowerful being.  Adam just was being an idiot.  And funny how Paul is sure that only childbearing gets a woman saved.  I guess it sucks if you are not fertile.

There is also where women are called property, Exodus 20, where women are given over to rapists to protect some “man of god”, women are given as war booty to be raped (and this god requires some of them too, Numbers 31), women are unclean after having children, etc etc.  One can see the very long list of how women are denigrated, raped, and otherwise harmed per this god here.  One word of caution, the SAB sometimes does push it when it uses some verses to prove a point.  However, most are quite valid.

“It also commands violence.”

Gee, the bible does too. Here’s a great bit by JC.  “Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, ‘Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban’ (that is, an offering to God[e])— 12 then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.”” Mark 7

JC is upset that children aren’t killed for “speaking evil” about their parents.  We also have JC having no problem with killing children, see the flood, the plagues.  It’s okay for a man to be blinded so this god can show off. 

‘I tell you, to all those who have, more will be given; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.’”” Luke 19

Christians will claim that this is *only* a parable.   Hmmm, if so what does this “really” mean then, and do tell who the “nobleman” is in the parable.

“Let me hasten to say that my Muslim acquaintances are as disturbed as I am with these teachings and would never participate in them. The problem is with the teachings of Mohammad, not what all Muslims do.”

Yep, Christians also pick and choose what they do.  Their supposed messiah says that all of the laws in the bible are to be followed, so where are these folks when people are daring to work on the sabbath? 

Of course, *all* of Revelation is advocating violence toward anyone not a Christian. Christians like John don’t much like that book being mentioned.

However, recent events in Pakistan have shown that Muslims in that part of the world follow those teachings of Mohammad.”

Yep, Christians do the same.  We get to see accounts of violence by Christians that fit quite nicely with what this god supposedly commands.  That’s why we have Christians attacking abortion clinics, doctors, homosexual people, killing their own kids because they are sure that this god will heal them or because they think it’s better than to allow the kids to “sin”, etc all because of what the bible says to do.  If we did not have secular laws in the US, I think it is safe to say that things would be quite a bit worse. 

As a man convinced that God exists, I could not embrace a book that taught things I knew were destructive and untrue. When I read the teachings of Jesus Christ, I saw a plea for peace, love, and non-violence. He elevated women and refused to return evil for evil. I saw the striking contrast between the teachings of Mohammad and Jesus Christ.”

Yep, John ignores those bits that don’t confirm with the fantasy he’s invented, a god in his own image.  Just like Muslims.  As shown above, the bible is full of things that are destructive and untrue.  Alas, lots in the bible is “do what I say, not as I do” when it comes to JesusGod and violence. 

“If you have doubts about the teachings of Christ and Mohammad, I would encourage you to get a copy of the Koran and read all of it. Then read Matthew through at least chapter seven.”

Oh, the whole way to chapter 7, eh?  Hmmm, if you read further, you find many of what I’ve cited above.  Seems that someone is trying to cover up how his religion is no better than any one else’s. 

“Although there are many good things in the Koran, it also calls for a cultural dependence on violence and servitude.”

Yep, you can say the same about the bible, with verse after verse about obedience, how great slavery is, and violence (see above).  Happily, we can ignore all religions since no one needs a god, or John, to know what does help humans and civilization. 

There’s plenty of websites that list “difficult passages” of the bible too (evil bible is a good one).  Of course, both sets of believers will try to invent reasons why their “holy books” don’t “really” mean what they literally say.  Do see the Skeptics Annotated Bible and Qu’ran to see just how ridiculous, and similar, both are.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – trying to use legal claims as apologetics

During some research to destroy some apologetics, I stumbled upon an excellent take down of the common attempt by Christians to use legal definitions to force their god into existence.  It over on in their library.  This is a great site to check out counter apologetics. 

Critique of John Warwick Montgomery’s Arguments for the Legal Evidence for Christianity by Richard Packham

One of my favorite bits is: “The fourth test by which perjury can be detected is inconsistency or self-contradiction in the testimony. Montgomery adds nothing new to the traditional apologetic defense of the gospel contradictions: 1) agreement would point to collusion; 2) each writer had a different perspective; 3) no gospel was intended to be complete; 4) duplicate narratives probably represent actual duplicate events.

None of these arguments are based on any rule of evidence, but are rather intended to avoid the very valid rule of evidence that testimony which is inconsistent with other evidence, or contradictory, or self-contradictory, may be disregarded as unreliable. In fact, this very rule of evidence is affirmed in the New Testament: “For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.” (Mark 14:56, 59) It is unfortunate for the Christian apologist that his best testimonies are contradictory, and that these are the best explanations he can come up with.” 

Always fun when the bible itself admits that contradictory witnesses aren’t to be believed. 

Now the chief priests and the whole council were looking for testimony against Jesus to put him to death; but they found none. 56 For many gave false testimony against him, and their testimony did not agree. 57 Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 But even on this point their testimony did not agree.”  Mark 14 

There are some “counter counter” apologetics against this and they are quite amusing, but you’ll have to search them out yourselves. 

Why Can’t We See God?

Funny how this claim from a Christian fails completely. If this is the case: “The answer is that if God allowed us to see him, we would indeed choose to love and worship him, but it would be by force. Out of fear of Hell we would love and worship God, and that is not what God wants. God wants people to choose to love and worship him of their own free will.”

the Christian must answer, why did this god show itself constantly in the bible, and there was no problem with it “once upon a time”?

Christians often don’t think very hard about their arguments. They react thoughtlessly in their need to excuse their god’s nonexistence.

spiritually appraised

It is often asked by those who don’t believe in Jesus, “Why can’t we see God?” The answer is that if God allowed us to see him, we would indeed choose to love and worship him, but it would be by force. Out of fear of Hell we would love and worship God, and that is not what God wants. God wants people to choose to love and worship him of their own free will.

So how is God to preserve free will, and at the same time, make it possible for people to know him? God’s system is this, he proves his existence through the creation, and he proves his specific identity through his word. This means everyone knows a God exists when they look at the world, but they don’t have to come to Jesus if they don’t want to. They can choose not to read the New…

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