Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – More lies from Trumpies: claims that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are an effective treatment for COVID-19

No surprise that Trump and his minions yet lie more.

We DO NOT KNOW if these drugs can help against the virus but we DO KNOW that the drugs themselves can be harmful.

Are hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin an effective treatment for COVID-19?

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Theists, the jig is up

Complete Christian idiots
Complete Christian idiots

So, here we are with a pandemic.   I’m working from home now and so is my husband for at least the next 14 days. We aren’t in the risky populations but my folks are, my dad having COPD thanks to a lifetime of smoking and inhaling gods know what from being a farmer and my mom from just being older. My family has alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency aka genetic emphysema running through it. This means that anyone with two of the copies of the gene has lungs that react badly to many things, like my aunt who was a teacher for years and the chalk dust was what made her lungs crap. My uncle died of complications from breathing in silage dust and welding fumes.

Weirdly enough, this gene mutation is also thought to protect people from intestinal worms so it did have a limited good effect when worms were a much larger issue than they are now. The smoke from inside sources of heat back then must have been a problem though.

So, yes, stay home, avoid people and deal with it.

What is interesting now is that religions are having to deal with this in a way I don’t recall seeing before. We have some Christians realizing that their god has no power over a virus and believing science quite a lot now, despite their attempts to claim that it is wrong in relation to their religion. We also have other Christians ignoring reality and making things worse by their lies.

In both cases, we have that the claims that religions make shown to be completely false. No magic god, no magic healing, there is just reality and we have to deal with it. Trump declared a “day of prayer” and unsurprisingly, nothing at all happened.

It is very much past time to ditch magical thinking.

Here is a good article on the virus: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-19-update-what-you-need-to-know/

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – just in case you weren’t completely sure that conservative Christians were inhumane

Shilled by Ken Ham of the failed Ark museum and the Creation museum, we have this prize.  If you don’t want to click, here’s a screen capture of their vileness.  It wouldn’t surprise me if they take this down to try to hide what they really think.

“Put together a medical mission team in your church for a local response (kind of like Samaritan’s Purse, but a local effort). The beauty of such a team is that infectious disease outbreaks happen regularly. Having something in place will mobilize the church moving forward.

Purchase as many personal hygiene products that are currently in high demand. We need to quit making memes about the shortages of toilet paper and hand sanitizer worldwide and begin to realize that people perceive these items as a need. Churches should stock up on these supplies for distribution to their local communities. Ideas for this include taking supplies to your community or putting together fliers indicating that your church is distributing free personal hygiene products. And if people quit overbuying these supplies, why wouldn’t the church not use the same items for its members during our weekly services? It just makes sense to promote good personal hygiene because it is ultimately derived from a biblical worldview.

Have someone creative and biblical write a tract for distribution to each person receiving the personal hygiene products. What a travesty to meet people’s physical needs and neglect to tell them about their most important spiritual need: a relationship with the Creator Redeemer Jesus Christ. Here’s an idea of something you can include to answer hard questions in light of sickness and death.”

So, we have Christians who think it’s great that there is a pandemic, and who want to horde supplies, but supplies that no one needs for the coronavirus.  And then only give them out if they can also proselytize to the person who think they need toilet paper.

This underlines that conservative Christians do only help people for their own benefit, e.g. their desperate need for external validation.  They have no problem in using fear and misery to make people agree with them.

Terrorism is an evil thing.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – quote mining by Christians

As is my habit, I look at various posts on WordPress with the words “atheist” and “atheism” to see what the chatter out there is like. Most post are by Christians who are very afraid of us atheists. To the point they choose to lie to support their fear. They try so hard to make believe that all atheists are nihilists to drive people into their imaginary god’s arms.

Fair warning, this post is long since the truth takes more time and space than lies.

In this episode, we have Christians, Presbyterians like I used to be, intentionally misrepresenting quotes from atheists. Let’s compare what they have with the real quote in context and with what Christianity says about humans.

“What do atheists think about the universe and our little race of advanced primates?

Hear them speak: “The human race is not special.”– Geoff Dawson, opinion piece, ABC news (Australia)”

This comes from this article here.  Now, what we can read from the actual article is:

We’re not special

As human beings, we need to remind ourselves that we are oxygen-breathing biped mammals.

In other words, we are animals. Evolutionary science demonstrates that we are continuous, not discontinuous, with other animal species

If one’s view of the world is based on science, we are not special, we were not placed here by a God to be the custodians of the Earth (and if we were, we have let the Almighty down big time!) and like all other species, we will have our place in the sun. The myth that we are somehow special and will continue to live forever as a dominant species is based on a deluded human-centric form of existential narcissism.”

It goes on to say how great it is that we are indeed humans, even if we aren’t “special”.

When we embrace the end, our lives are more vibrant

This means the adults learning to calm themselves in the face of their own inevitable mortality. The practice of mindfulness and the contemplation of one’s own death is one beneficial way to do this.

When we embrace the end, our lives are more vibrant

This means the adults learning to calm themselves in the face of their own inevitable mortality. The practice of mindfulness and the contemplation of one’s own death is one beneficial way to do this.”

Now, let’s look at what the bible says about humans.

“We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a menstrual rags.
We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.” – Isaiah 64. 

This is the same nonsense we see in the NT where we’re told that humans are dogs unless they worship the Christian god. The bible ends where this god murders all non-christians and then works with Satan to corrupt the Christians that are left (Revelation 19-21) That’s quite a god that the Christians have, not caring about humans at all unless they constantly praise it.

“The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”

– Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden”

Unsurprisingly, this is taken out of context. This is what comes before: Continue reading “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – quote mining by Christians”

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – hearing voices

Occasionally, I come upon a post by a theist and then comment on it.  A couple of exchanges in, suddenly there are “rules” that are enforced when the Christian can’t find an answer or finds the line of debate less than flattering to his points.  Oh well, that doesn’t stop reality from existing.

The post I found was on hearing the Christian god.  This claim of directly interacting with the deity is pretty common in Christianity, where each Christian is sure that they were told directly what this god “really” means when it comes to the bible, etc.   Our author states “Without God personally speaking to us, we are not able to follow Him. And without following Him, we are left following a Book and the dictates of the religious community in which we live. The problem is: The Book points to Him, and in Him alone do we find eternal life.”

That does present a problem since Christians don’t agree on what this god is saying.

The claim that god speaks to someone is fraught with peril.  In addition to the wildly differing claims by Christians about what this god says to them, we also have that Christians claim that their god tells them to kill their children, or do other heinous acts, and they follow through.  There is no way to tell who is telling the truth, if any at all.

The author states that “If someone thinks they are hearing from God, there is no telling what they might do to act upon what they are hearing.”  This is true, we have no idea and this god does nothing to show any differences between hearing this god and hearing voices if you are schizophrenic.   He also states “The other difficulty we have (and this applies to believers) is knowing the difference between what God is saying and what we are saying.”  That is indeed the case: how can one tell since each Christian comes up with a different message from this god?

In that we have these problems, there is no reason to think that anyone is hearing from this god.

Our author also tries to claim that we simply must be hearing from this god because the mind isn’t the chemical lump in our skull, it has to be something else.  What this something else is seems to be a little beyond our author since he never explains it or explains how it is interacting with the brain and acting just like the brain is its source.  We also get the usual willful ignorance from a theist that the entire universe is supposed random, when that’s not what the evidence indicates.

It’s easy to simply say “no” when you want to claim that the brain isn’t the source of the mind, but a lot harder to defend that position in reality.  That’s why our author ends up making very silly claims that if we don’t believe in his magic, then we simply must believe that our minds are “illusions” and life is meaningless.  All he has are baseless claims intended to gin up fear.

And as one final attempt to gin up fear, we have the common Christian claim that atheism somehow is responsible for atrocities, when that is not the case.  But it sure does make a theist happy to spread such fear and try to convince people that only they are the salvation, they and the “word” of their god.  How dare we know that we don’t need them and their god to be humane humans.  Humans are good without their god or any other.

Father along down the comments we have other comments by our author and the site owner like “”One things I found when I became a Christian is how much Christian denominations actually agree, doctrinally. The examples you cite are not, to my knowledge, differences held among Christians. They seem to be opinions held by those that are not.”

This was in response to a post I made that our Christians edited to not show that Christian have doctrinal difference.  What are those differences you might ask?

what morals does this god want?

what is heaven/hell?

is there free will or predestination?

what is the purpose of prayer?

What/who really was Jesus Christ?

how is one baptized and what is the significance?

do saints exist/intercede?

what will get one saved?

what parts of the bible are to be taken literally, metaphorically or ignored? 

This isn’t even remotely the end to those points. Rather inconvenient when an atheists shows that a Christian is either ignorant or is making false claims intentionally, isn’t it?

I was told that Christian are to look to the life and behavior of Jesus as captured in the Gospels and not religious doctrines.  However, again, we have problems with what JC does in the gospels and in Revelation, something that many Christians don’t like to admit to at all.

Those posts showing where JC calls people a dog, says that people should hate and abandon families and kills a lot of people in revelations are also being held in moderation.

“what would Jesus do” ends up being quite a lot of different things and that is evidently embarrassing.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – another “clever” Christian

Another “clever” Christian with their lists of questions.  They never acknowledge the answers and just run away. Oh well, it’s an easy post to show how little so many Christians think.

  1. Why is there something rather than nothing?

We don’t completely know yet. Still no evidence for this god or any gods.

  1. Is there any evidence that suggests the universe is eternal?

We don’t know what came before the BBT.  There are some hypotheses.  Again, we don’t know yet, and still no evidence for a god.

  1. If not, why do Atheists hold onto the idea and say you have debunked the Kalam Cosmological Argument?

Because we have.   The cosmological argument fails because it depends on an a priori assumption that can’t be shown to exist.  The laws of physics have as much chance of being an eternal cause as a god, and probably more hance since Christians and theist can’t agree on a god.

  1. If so, why do the vast majority of scientists reject this idea?

They don’t.

  1. Why is the universe so fine-tuned?

It isn’t.  When 99.999…% of the universe is deadly to humans, there’s nothing “fine” about it.  If you want to claim a god did this, what an incompetent god.

  1. If your answer is the multiverse, why is there no evidence for that theory?

I don’t and we don’t have any evidence *yet*.    Poor god of the gaps argument.

  1. Is it possible that there is no natural explanation for the origin of life?

Evidence please.  But sure, anyone of a billion gods can be responsible.  Show that it was your version of the Chrsitain god.

  1. Where does consciousness come from?

We’re not sure yet.   Seems to be from the brain since injury to the brain or an imbalance of brain chemicals changes it.

  1. Do you lack a belief that God exists or would you say that God does not exist?

The gods defined by humans don’t exist.  There is no evidence for them.  Could there be some vague thing?  Maybe, but that’s not the god you worship is it?

  1. Do you lack a belief that Zeus/God exists, or do you believe that Zeus does/God not exist?

See above.

  1. If you just lack a belief that Zeus/God exists, why are you centuries behind the rest of the world who say that Zeus doesn’t exist?

See above.

  1. Do you act according to what you believe, or what you just lack a belief in?

Yes to both.

  1. What evidence is there that Atheism corresponds with reality?

Evidence that theists claims never happened and that other things entirely did.

  1. Is Atheism a worldview?

No.  You do need to get a dictionary, don’t you?

  1. If not, what is your worldview?

Pretty close to Epicureanism.

  1. What would convince you that God exists?

Evidence.  And hmmm, which god since theists can’t agree, not even among themselves?   How about Christians being able to do what the bible says, that every baptized believer in Christ as savior can do miracles like Christ (Mark 16, James 5)?

  1. Are you willing to follow the evidence, even if it leads to a different understanding of how the universe works?

Yep.

  1. If Jesus rose from the dead, would you become a Christian?

Nope, since Christianity is based on a disgusting god.  I might believe that the entity exists.

  1. If you wouldn’t become a Christian, why would you ever accept that he rose from the dead?

Evidence.

  1. Why do Atheists keep insisting faith is blind trust, when that’s not what Christians or the Bible say?

That’s what the bible says:  “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” – Hebrews 11  Why did you try to lie about that?

  1. Why do you want material evidence for an immaterial God?

Per Christians and the bible, this god has interacted with the physical on earth.  Where’s the evidence of this?

  1. Is there a purpose to life?

Yep, we each give our own life purpose.

  1. If there is, by what standard do you determine life has purpose?

My own.  No god needed, any of them.

  1. If not, what is the point of listening to this video?

Sorry didn’t see a video to watch.

  1. Where does morality come from?

Humans.  Theists can’t agree on what morals their god/s want.   They also change their morals as humans advance, insisting that they have a “new” interpretation of the same old nonsense.

  1. How do you determine what is right and what is wrong?

Based on myself and what makes civilization work.

  1. When a lion kills a cub from another pride because that’s what natural selection has raised it to do, is that morally acceptable?

For a lion it is.

  1. If evolution has put a sense of morality into us to help us survive, what makes our actions any better than any other animals actions?

They aren’t.  Again, theists don’t agree on morality so claims of an objective morality are just false claims.

  1. Is it morally acceptable for you kill a toddler because you can no longer financially support it?

Nope, but that is what makes our civilization work.

  1. Is it morally acceptable to kill a fetus in the womb because you couldn’t financially support it?

Yep, since a fetus isn’t a child.  Thanks for indicating you know the difference.

  1. Is it morally acceptable to kill a baby after it has been born?

Nope, unless it can’t live without pain and misery.   Anyone who wants to prolong pain is a monster.  Do you agree?

  1. How can you morally differentiate between a baby in the womb at 6 months and a baby born prematurely at 6 months?

You need a biology book too.  A fetus in the womb at six months has a chance thanks to modern medicine and would be treated exactly like the premature birth.  But nice try with the lies.

  1. Who was Jesus?

Perhaps a real person who was deluded.   However, this character is not the son of God, the one you claim to worship.  They aren’t the same being.  “Close enough” only counts for horseshoes and hand grenades.

  1. Why did his disciples die saying that he rose from the dead?

Because they wanted it to be true, however there isn’t much evidence for the apostles at all and we only have unknown authors writing decades after the supposed events, which we have no evidence for.  Why did the members of Heaven’s Gate say that they would be taken up by aliens and cut their genitalia off?

  1. Why does the Bible keep lining up with archaeology?

It doesn’t, but nice try with a lie.   None of the essential events of the bible have ever been supported by archaeological evidence.  No flood, no exodus, no sudden change in language, no fabulous palaces and temples, no battles of hundreds of thousands, no major earthquake/day darkening/dead wandering around Jerusalem on one certain day.

  1. Why do the three bloodiest regimes in History, (Mao’s China, Nazi Germany, and Stalin’s Russia) come from Atheistic ideas?

They don’t.   Hitler wrote voluminously about how he is following god’s will in persecuting the Jews in Mein Kampf.  Mao was acting like a megalomaniac as was Stalin.  That was the cause of their blood regimes.  Genocide isn’t an atheist idea, but we can sure see it is a theist one from the bible.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “Why can’t animals talk?”

of course this isn’t history but a sadistic story

Rabbi Gellman, who used to be part of the God Squad with a catholic priest, still has a syndicated column. I occasionally address them there. This time it’s a column that in my paper is titled “why don’t animals talk”.

Now many cultures have myths on why this is. They are just-so stories like Kipling wrote. Raven can’t talk anymore because he stole fire for mankind and carried it in his beak.

The answer we have from the rabbi to ostensibly a third-grade girl is that it is somehow to teach humans “not just about right and wrong but also about wrong and right and even more right.”   (Italics mine) What the hell? This certainly drives a spike into the objective claims of morality from theists. If this god allows something that it kinda isn’t good with, but there is a better idea, then why not require the truly “good” idea? The rabbi wants to have it that eating meat is okay with his god but its better if we could eat without causing some animal to “suffer and die”.

In this column, Gellman mentions Genesis 1:29 and Genesis 9:3. They are, with a little added for context (the specific verses are italicized):

26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”27 So God created humankind[e] in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 29 God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.” Genesis 1

Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.

22 As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night,  shall not cease.”

1God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. 4 Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.” – Genesis 8-9

So, we have a god that has no problem with killing and burning animals for its own pleasure, so Gellman’s claim that this god is all about veganism isn’t true in the slightest. This god is so all about meat is that he rejects Cain’s offering of fruits and vegetables, and approves of Abel’s offering, also making it questionable why Abel was bothering with killing animals at all since they weren’t eating them, and why this god had to kill and skin animals to make clothes for the newly naked Adam and Eve. The rabbi claims that his god gives the allowance to Noah to eat meat “grudgingly”. That is no where in the verses.

The rabbi then gives a rather horrible little story (midrash) about how Noah wanted a hamburger. He has the snake being truthful and saying one has to make a hamburger (and seemingly implying that it was being evil, which begs the question, why was this snake on the ark?). Noah, for no reason other than personal want, kills and eats his friend the cow. This is from a person who chats regularly with this god. The end of the story is that animals don’t talk to humans because that Noah ate one of them and they are upset.

So are animals upset with this god too since it demands their death?

Which of the cows did Noah eat and how does this work with the other utterly silly story in the bible where it can’t make up its mind on how many animals Noah took with him on the ark?

If we can eat “Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything” then why the claims we can’t eat some of these things in Exodus and Leviticus? This god is so forgetful, losing things, forgetting what he’s said before.

This a prime example of theists making up nonsense thoughtlessly and making things ever worse for their bible’s claims.

“Back of all these superstitions you will find some self-interest. I do not say that this is true in every case, but I do say that if priests had not been fond of mutton, lambs never would have been sacrificed to God. Nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use, and it always so happened that God wanted what his agents liked. Now, I will not say that all priests have been priests “for revenue only,” but I must say that the history of the world tends to show that the sacerdotal class prefer revenue without religion to religion without revenue.” – Robert Ingersoll (lots more excellent quotes here for those who don’t think atheists used to be as feistyt as they are now)