Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Christians say the darndest things

This is something I have to preserve for posterity.  A Christian told me this:

“Trying to cast a disagreement as a lie is symptomatic of primitive thinking. Look, there is no consensus among atheists that atheism is merely a lack of belief in a god. If atheism is merely a lack of belief in a god, are you admitting that pedophilia is atheistic since it too doesn’t involve a belief in god?”

So, my friends, do you agree atheism is a lack of belief in a god and only that?   have you seen any other definition for atheism offered by an atheist?

It’s so cute to see Christians have to try to cast aspersions so utterly ineptly.

Addendum (10/14/19): 

It’s even better to watch a conservative Christian intentionally lie when it comes to my comments and wondering just so “innocently” why I’m not answering posts: “Oh, and I noticed that many others have replied to you. Is there a reason you are ignoring them? Don’t you think that is kind of rude?” .  Well, he’s not allowing them out of moderation and his blog so helpfully show this:

The snipping tool is just so handy: michaels failure

it’s rather like Christians trying hiding fossils.  One might wonder if they’ve read their bible at all since lying isn’t looked upon favorably by their god.

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – more low hanging creationist fruit

Fruit. See what I did there?  😀

Unsurprisingly, Ray Comfort, the fellow who thinks oranges are evidence for his version of the Christian god, is now trying to glom onto actual science again and insisting paleontology shows his myths are true.

And of course he’s trying to make money from repacking the same old creationist lies. Ray wants to claim this: “Why did the dinosaur disappear? Contemporary scientists have their theories:

  • Was it a massive asteroid?
  • Was it violent volcanic activity?
  • Did the dinosaurs kill each other?
  • Was it simply a matter of survival of the fittest?”

Hmm, just who are these “contemporary scientists” who think the dinos killed each other to the point of extinction or that it was “simply a matter of survival of the fittest”? That would be none. We do have evidence that it was likely a massive asteroid with some activity from massive volcanic areas known as traps.

Ray’s new video “Why did the dinosaurs disappear?” has a lovely trailer with a lot of rather ignorant people having no clue about dinosaurs and then Ray’s minions insisting that there has to be a designer.

That’s it. They tout a new discovery in Wyoming that supposedly agrees with their version of the bible.

Let’s take a look at that discovery.

First, it’s not new. Wyoming is a treasure trove of fossils thanks to where it is on the continent. It has one formation, the Morrison Formation, that has a lot of fossils in it. It’s made up of various beds of different sedimentary rock from conglomerates (big grain size) to siltstones (very small grain size) and limestones (chemical deposition and shells of critters). This indicates that there were different environments that deposited each layer. These layers were deposited within the Jurassic.

What Ray et al try to do is claim that there was their magic flood, and this was the reason dinos died. What they are too willfully ignorant to note is that there were dinos in other times too, the Triassic and Cretaceous. They weren’t the same ones as in the Jurassic.

There’s also the problem that massive floods don’t make layers like the Morrison Formation. Potholer54 does a great experiment to show this, an experiment that any child, or willfully ignorant theist, can do.

But heck, if you are going to invoke magic for one thing, why not insist that magic makes layers too?

What’s actually going on is that there is a thing called Mission Jurassic, where a lot of money and a lot of paleontologists will concentrate on a part of the formation thanks to the Children’s Museum in Indianapolis. Here’s a good article on it: https://buckrail.com/jurassic-dig-uncovering-hundreds-of-dinosaurs-in-wyoming/

It’s not surprising Ray et al want to try to spread their lies by hanging onto the coattails of science. Creations keep claiming “real soon now” that they’ll have evidence for their god being the one who created dinos and everything else. It’s rather like how they insist that their bible describes dinosaurs and that their god killed those same beasts, lots of false claims.

It’s rather quaint to see Ray try to claim that the behemoth described in Job (you know, where this god works with Satan to murder a family) is really a large herbivorous dinosaur. Let’s look at what the bible says and how Ray ignores what it actually says to invent his lies.

“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moves his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinks up a river, and hastens not: he trusts that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares” (Job 40:15-24).

The italics are Ray’s claims verbatim.

This was the largest of all creatures He made. It was plant-eating (herbivorous).

Alas Ray is too lazy to know about blue whales, eh? Dinos didn’t eat like oxen as far as the evidence shows.

It had its strength in its hips.

Loins, Ray, not “hips”, this bible critter had strength in its penis. And what the heck is this supposed to actually mean? The dinos had a lot of strength everywhere in their bodies. Being that dinos are likely from eggs, no navels either.

Its tail was like a large tree (a cedar).

Ray has to directly ignore the bible here. The bible says “He moves his tail like a cedar” which indicates that somehow the tail moves like a tree. Not that the tail is the size of a cedar. We also have evidently a bible beast that has testicles with sinews that are wrapped together.

It had very strong bones.

Yep, so do humans and so do cows.  The bible says that the bones were bronze tubes, not “like” bronze.  Rhinos may have the strongest bones.

Its habitat was among the trees. Drank massive amounts of water. His nose pierced through snares. Then Scripture says, “…He that made him can make his sword approach to him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.”

Again, Ray has to lie about what his bible actually says. This beast supposedly drinks a river, the Jordan. Now that is a rather pitiful river, not wider than a creek here in the eastern US, but drinking a river is not just drinking “massive amounts of water”. Again, whales.

We can also see that the NRSV version of the bible doesn’t agree with Ray’s version. It’s so cute to see this god bragging like any child in a playground ““Look at Behemoth, which I made just as I made you; it eats grass like an ox.16 Its strength is in its loins, and its power in the muscles of its belly.17 It makes its tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are knit together.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like bars of iron.19 “It is the first of the great acts of God— only its Maker can approach it with the sword.20 For the mountains yield food for it  where all the wild animals play.21 Under the lotus plants it lies, in the covert of the reeds and in the marsh.22 The lotus trees cover it for shade,  the willows of the wadi surround it.
23 Even if the river is turbulent, it is not frightened;   it is confident though Jordan rushes against its mouth.24 Can one take it with hooks  or pierce its nose with a snare?”

Sounds rather like a hippo or rhino.   Alas, Ray and conservative Christianity fail again.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Now Oranges are evidence of the conservative Christian god

Yep, thanks to Ray Comfort, oranges are evidence of his version of the Christian god:

 

Of course no Christian can do miracles like Jesus Christ, Son of God. But heck, we should believe oranges are evidence of this god, just like bananas.

Screw the amputees, screw the cancer patients, oranges are evidence of God. Even Ray will choose a secular hospital rather than trusting that a Christian elder can heal him.  Sucks to need evidence, eh? So much for “faith”.

What complete idiots.

 

and this is the fellow that some atheists claim is a nice guy

 

S’right

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – oh the arguments over imaginary friends

This blog is quite bemusing.   Abrahamists are after each other on whose version of their god is right: https://bloggingtheology.com/2019/09/02/islam-jack-chick-and-the-battle-for-souls-your-best-life

It does come down to “My imaginary god is the right one. No, mine is! Your holy book is contradictory. No, yours is.”

The blog is a great example of how theists use the same arguments and utterly ignore that they are attacking the same arguments they use when presented by an opposing theist.

Now, to get that taste out of your virtual mouth, here’s a great interview between Mike Shermer and Phil Zuckerman about  Phil’s new book,  What It Means to Be Moral: Why Religion is not necessary for living an ethical life.

 

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation: Ray Comfort thinks he’s being clever again “Is God a Cruel Tyrant?”

Ray Comfort thinks he’s being clever again. He has an attempt to claim his god isn’t a “cruel tyrant”.

My father used to hit me. He would daily leave my mother to raise us kids, and I once saw him kill a helpless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could understandably come to the conclusion that my father was a tyrant.

And of course, there is indeed information missing to explain what Ray is trying to claim.

But listen to some missing information. If I ever lied or stole, my dad cared enough to correct me on the seat of my learning, and for that I greatly respected him and stayed on the straight and narrow. The reason he left my mom each day was to work hard as a carpenter and provide food for our table. And that animal he killed…it was a large bird that had been struck by a car and had been left to die on the side of the road. He put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so.

One has to wonder how many times Ray lied or stole from someone, being a raised as a Christian and all. Must have been often and he still does it. A pity his father isn’t still around. One also has to wonder exactly how Ray’s dad killed an injured bird with his “bare hands”. My father had to kill a hawk that I found; it had been shot and left to die, filled with maggots. He shot it and it died quickly and cleanly.

With that knowledge you can now see that my dad wasn’t a tyrant. He was a loving and kind father.

Yep, we can see that this human wasn’t a tyrant, if somewhat questionable.

Richard Dawkins believes that God is more than just a tyrant. He said:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

But there’s some missing information he’s not giving you that changes everything…for those who will listen.

Dawkins is right, this god is all that he mentions and more (I can give verses if you’d like). We have a god that either intentionally allows the “serpent” in the garden or was too stupid to keep it out. Then this god punishes humans for listening to and believing the second most powerful being in the universe, if we are to believe the bible. We continue on with this god wandering off and when it comes back, it is upset no one is worshipping it anymore, deeming that to be “evil” and then killing everyone on earth (minus 8 including a drunkard), including children, plus animals and plants that had nothing to do with this.

We then head to Exodus, where this god forgets that its people are suffering, and when it does remember, proceeds to mind control people so it can show off. This showing off kills many. Farther along, we have this god killing a child for its parents actions, being afraid of a tall building, and repeatedly screwing up in choosing kings for its supposed “chosen” people.

Then, finally, this god, having repeatedly trying and failing to get its people to do what it wants, decides it needs a blood sacrifice of itself to apologize for it allowing the serpent in.

This is what Ray claims:

This same morally perfect and holy Creator (whose seeming harsh judgments were always “righteous and true altogether”) became a morally perfect human being. He did this to save us from the same just wrath that spilled upon the wicked nations of the Old Testament. Most of us know that Jesus of Nazareth gave His life as a sacrifice for the sin of the world. What they don’t know is that we violated God’s Law (the Ten Commandments) and justly deserve the wrath of the moral Law, but Jesus paid our fine in full. That means that God can legally dismiss our case. He can commute our death sentence and let us live forever, because our fine was paid by Another who then rose from the dead.

“Morally perfect”? Where? Only if one assumes that anything that this god does is “morally perfect” just because it is this god e.g. a morality based on might equals right.  And wrath on the nations in the ancient Middle East?  Where?  No one noticed.

The verse that Ray is quoting from is this, Psalm 19: The law of the Lord is perfect,  reviving the soul; the decrees of the Lord are sure, making wise the simple;  the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”

Now we have a problem here for Christians since none of them follow these commandments and laws of this god. Not even every Jew follows them these “perfect laws” or even tries.  We also have this psalm that as a great example of the ignorance of bible characters about the universe, assuming that the sun has a tent that this god puts it in.  This is also supposedly David singing, to a creature that killed his child.  It takes a lot of fear and stupidity to laud a child-murderer (of course many Christians will say it’s not “murder” since this god has the right to do whatever it wants with humans).

You know, like a tyrant.

No, “most of us” don’t know or believe that this magical man gave his life for anything. We have a story, that has this magical man really not wanting to do this, and being forced by this god to be a human sacrifice for something it caused to happen. (the gospel of John of course contradicts this). And Ray, sorry to tell you but there are quite a few more commandments from your supposed god than just 10. Ray also argues that we don’t need those commandments in public buildings since “Jesus paid our fine in full.”

One has to wonder what legality that this god is beholden to, if it can “legally dismiss our case”.   That would be something beyond this god.

The same holy God who considers lust to be adultery and hatred to be murder, made provision for His great love and mercy to be extended towards those who repent and trust in the Savior. For the Christian, the cross of Jesus Christ shows that God isn’t the wicked tyrant that foolish and ignorant men make Him out to be. It is the missing information that changes everything.

So, if this god considers even a thought as bad as the act, one has to wonder why this god constantly allows these people to commit their acts, rather than smiting them like he supposedly used to do. He could stop raping priests and pastors, because he let them have their free will in their minds. But this god does nothing at all, not even what a parent would do to correct a child. There is no “love and mercy” toward those who this god intentionally allows harm to come to. Such an incompetent tyrant Ray has as a god.

I’m quite pleased to provide that missing information that Ray chose not to present.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – when Christians lie about mental illness

Often a theist, usually a Christian, will claim that since they do no harm, why do I attack their claims.  Well, this is why, when a Christian lies about mental health and mental illness.  When their claims will harm someone.  Ray Comfort and his cult now try to make claims about depression, something that many struggle with and that many lose their struggle and commit suicide.   Now, let’s look at the pamphlet that they’ve created.  This is what makes this atheist angry.

IF YOU HAVE EVER had suicidal thoughts, you’re not alone. It’s very common. And if you suffer from depression, you don’t have a mental disease. You are sane and you’re normal, because life is depressing. It’s filled with pain and suffering. As you go through life, your beloved dog dies. So does your sweet grandma. Then you realize that no one survives. We are all going to die and it seems that there’s nothing we can do about it. That’s very depressing. 

TWO QUESTIONS
What is the world’s best-selling book of all time? It’s the Bible. Are you familiar with its story of the rich young ruler who ran to Jesus, knelt down and asked, “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” How would you answer that question? Before you answer, let me give you a quick scenario: Imagine you feel a painful lump under your arm. So you go to the doctor. He examines it, looks concerned, does some tests, and comes back with a grim expression and says, “I’m so sorry to tell you this, but you have lymph node cancer. It has metastasized. You have about two weeks to live. I will give you some medication to help ease the pain. I’m so sorry.” 

The first page mentions the story of the rich young man.  That story, if you are not familiar with it, is where JC says that to follow him one must give up everything, family, worldly goods, etc.   The second has that we are to image we are dying of cancer and some how the first thought should be “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?”   That’s not the first thing on my mind, that would be about my family, not my greed to live forever.   This argument from Ray et all is the “no atheist in foxholes” bit of nonsense.  Alas, for them, there are plenty of atheists in foxholes, and not one Christian who can heal someone like the bible promises.

You go home and lie on your bed. You’re too sick to see anyone or go anywhere. All you can think about is that one question: “What should I do to inherit eternal life?” This isn’t a far-fetched scenario. More than 600,000 Americans will die of cancer in the next twelve months, and over 8.2 million will die of the disease worldwide. Put yourself into that frightening scenario and ask yourself, “What should I do to inherit eternal life?” Do you know the answer? 

Yep, we are all going to die.   Here is where fear is used to try to make people believe in Ray et al’s version of the Christian god.

Each religion claims that they have the “right” answer, and each Christian is sure that their version is the right answer.  They of course don’t agree.   Then we have an argument from popularity to try to convince the reader that the bible has to be right since a lot of people buy it.   Yep, a lot of people do.  My church had many many copies in the pews that were never opened.  We have many moldering away in hotels where they are never opened.   And when Islam becomes the biggest religion, then the Qu’ran will be the biggest selling book, and what *will* Christians do with their failed arguments?

THE CAUSE OF DEPRESSION
According to the world’s best-selling Book, every human being is held in bondage to a haunting fear of death. The Bible says that what Jesus accomplished on the cross was so that . . . [He] might free all those who through [the haunting] fear of death were held in slavery throughout their lives. (Hebrews 2:15, Amplified Bible)

As for what the bible says about the fear of death being the cause of depression, nope.  It’s chemistry.   That’s why chemistry can help control it.  I’m not inclined to believe a book that says that bird blood is a cure for leprosy when it comes to mental health diagnoses.

FEAR’S ANTIDOTE
If you were standing on the edge of a plane 10,000 feet up, thinking about how you are going to jump and hit the ground face-first at 120 mph, you would understandably be terrified. But if I gave you a parachute, the minute you put it on, you will be able to control your fears. If you completely trust that parachute, you will now know that you will land gently at 8 mph, on your feet. Your fear will be in direct proportion to your faith. If you have total faith in the parachute, you will have no fear. Your faith will rid you of fear. 

There’s plenty of reason to trust a parachute, thanks to physics.  Not so much reason to trust a god that does nothing.

Let’s now apply that analogy to faith in Jesus. When He was asked, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He replied: “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ” (Mark 10:18,19) 

Jesus told him that only God is good; only He is morally perfect. Then He gave the man five of the Ten Commandments. This is because we may think that we are good, but the Ten Commandments show us that we’re not. For example, how many lies have you told in your life? Have you ever stolen something (irrespective of its value)? Have you taken God’s name in vain (including “OMG”)? Jesus said that if we look with lust, we commit adultery in the heart (see Matthew 5:27,28). Have you ever looked with lust? 

Here we go with Christians citing the commandments, in the confusion that there are only ten of them.  Indeed, how many Christians have stolen something, have taken their gods name in vain?  How many have allows people to work on a sabbath without murdering them?  How many have them eaten shrimp and worn poly/cotton shirts?

If you answered “Yes” to these questions, you’ve admitted that you are a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart. So if God judged you by the Ten Commandments on Judgment Day (we’ve looked at four of them), would you be innocent or guilty? No doubt you (like the rest of us) will be guilty. If you’re guilty on Judgment Day, will you go to Heaven or Hell? If any of us were judged by the Ten Commandments, we would justly end up in Hell. What then should you do to be saved from death and Hell? 

And here we go with Ray et al insisting that everyone is a horrible person, again to scare people.  And of course these same people support a unrepentant lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer with no problem as long as they get power.  Such good Trumpies they are.

Fortunately, there is an answer to the question, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Just over 2,000 years ago, God became a perfect, sinless human being in Jesus of Nazareth. The Bible says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh . . . (1 Timothy 3:16) And the reason He became a human being was to suffer and die on the cross. When Jesus was on the cross He took the punishment for the sin of the world. We broke God’s Law (the Ten Commandments are called “the moral Law”) and Jesus paid the fine. That’s what happened on the cross. That’s why He cried out, “It is finished!” just before He died. In other words, the debt has been paid. 

If you’re in court and someone pays your fine, the judge can legally let you go even though you’re guilty. God can dismiss our case, and legally let us live forever, because Jesus paid our fine on the cross: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). Then Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death. Today, if you repent and trust in Jesus, God promises to give you eternal life as a free gift. 

Ah, no, that’s not what happened on the cross.  That is a story.  This god decided, after failing multiple times, that it needed a human sacrifice to make itself happy.  What a silly story.

Do you know what “death” is? It’s our wages. The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). We earn the sentence of death by our sin. It’s like a judge saying to a mass murderer, “You have earned the death penalty.” Death is evidence that God is serious about sin. In His morally perfect eyes, our sin is deadly serious. Today, right now, please confess and forsake your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ (like you’d trust a parachute). Do that, and God will not only save you from death, but He will save you from the fear of death. Remember the analogy of how fearful it would be to jump 10,000 feet without a parachute? And how, if you were given a parachute, you could control your fears? Put on the Lord Jesus Christ and trust in Him with all of your heart, and you will rid yourself of that haunting fear that causes depression. 

So, God is “serious”.  Hmmm, God sounds like a mafia don.  God also has a man’s family murdered to show off its power.  Hmmm, maybe it *is* a mafia don?

Millions of human beings suffer from depression because they live without faith in Jesus. They have no hope in their death. But in Christ, you now have a living hope, both in this life and in your death. You need never fear as long as you trust in Jesus. Look at the promises of Scripture: What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31–39) 

To grow in your faith, make a habit of reading your Bible daily. Without fail. And make sure that you obey what you read. God will never let you down. Visit Living Waters.com where you will find many helpful resources, as well as our advertising-free YouTube channel (which is seen by millions): YouTube.com/LivingWaters. Condensed from The Final Curtain by Ray Comfort (available at Amazon.com or LivingWaters.com). 

So we end up with the usual lies from Christians that as long as you believe, then this god won’t give you more than you can handle.  We know that is a lie since there are more than a few Christians who commit suicide.  All these claims end up blaming the victim when this god does nothing.    Ray et al claim that they didn’t believe “enough”, they didn’t pray in the “right” way, and as a final lie, that their god wanted it this way.

An imaginary being doesn’t help depression.   Therapy and drugs can, not always but we are always perfecting them.  Don’t be lied to by people who only want your validation for their beliefs, and they don’t care if you die to get them.