Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – more fail from Answers in Genesis

Unsurprisingly one of the folks over at Answers in Genesis, aka cowards who want to attack other theists and non-theists, have quite a strawman argument over at their website, trying to convince people to agree with them.   Of course, they are cowards since they don’t allow comments on their lies. 

But we can provide them some here!  This is from Bodie Hodge, an mechanical engineer, who thinks he is ever so special.  Why do creationists get engineers and scientists who have no grounding in evolutionary theory?  I would hazard a guess that it is because they are susceptible to the argument from authority, and think that anyone with a degree, and who agrees with their myths, should be believed.   Sorry, dears, it doesn’t work like that.  I wouldn’t take my child to a diesel mechanic and I would take my car to a pediatrician, no matter how much I liked them. 

This will be an exercise in how some Christians lie, desperate in their need for external validation. 

“Are you tired of all the evil associated with the philosophy of atheism — Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and so on?1 After all, most murderers, tyrants, and rapists are not biblical Christians, and most have rejected the God of the Bible. Even if they claim to believe in the God of the Bible, they are not really living like a true Christ follower (who strives to follow God’s Word), are they?

Do you feel conflicted about the fact that atheism has no basis in morality (i.e., no absolute right and wrong; no good, no bad)? If someone stabs you in the back, treats you like nothing, steals from you, or lies to you, it doesn’t ultimately matter in an atheistic worldview, where everything and everyone are just chemical reactions doing what chemicals do. And further, knowing that you are essentially no different from a cockroach in an atheistic worldview (since people are just animals) must be disheartening.”


Unsurprisingly, we have Bodie starting off with a lie.   There is no “philosophy of atheism”. There is also no morality of atheism.   Atheism is a conclusion that there are no god or gods (theists are atheists when it comes to gods other than their own).  It has no worldview attached to it.  Atheists have all sorts of different worldviews.  I’m mostly an Epicurean in worldview.  Some are far-right idiots, some are far left liberals, some are Randians, etc.  And some atheists are megalomaniacs who happen to get into power.  Now, since I’m an atheist, and not a megalomaniac, and have no desire to commit genocide, that is not part of atheism.  It’s part of megalomania.  Bodie tries to claim that all atheists are evil in the moral sense.  He has no evidence and thus is ignoring his own religion when it says do not bear false witness, e.g. don’t lie.   

 
We also have Bodie claiming that murders, etc aren’t “Biblical Christians”.  Now, you may ask, what exactly is a “biblical Christian”.  That is a term used by Christians who want to pretend that only their version is the right version of Christianity.  This also allows them to create the circular argument that only biblical Christians don’t do certain things because they are biblical because they don’t do certain things.  However, Bodie forgets that his god kills humans, kills children for something they didn’t do, demands genocide and commits it, etc.  These must objectively good things if this god does them and if objective good morality comes from this god as many, if not most,  Christians claim.  If they are not good if a human does such things, then our Christians have a morality based subjectively on who does an action, not the action itself.  Since many Christians do claim that that their god has some right to do with humans what it wants, they end up with a morality that is no more might equals right. 

So, no, Bodie, we are not tired at all.  You have nothing more than lies and strawmen. 

“Are you tired of the fact that atheism (which is based in materialism,2 a popular worldview today) has no basis for logic and reasoning? Is it tough trying to get up every day thinking that truth, which is immaterial, really doesn’t exist? Are you bothered by the fact that atheism cannot account for uniformity in nature3 (the basis by which we can do real science)? Why would everything explode from nothing and, by pure chance, form beautiful laws like E=MC2 or F=MA?4

Atheism is not based on materialism, though they can be often accepted together.  Atheism is based on logic and reasoning.  If there is no evidence for a claim, there is no logic or reasoning to believe that claim.  Bodie disbelieves in other gods very likely because of no evidence.  So, is his disbelief illogical and unreasonable?  I suspect he would deny that.  One often finds arguments like this offered by theists because they have difficulty in considering their claims from an outsider’s point of view.  John Loftus has some great books on this idea. 

There is plenty of material truth.  Theists often get into this problem that they need to claim that their god is “immaterial”, and thus they must claim that “truth” must also immaterial since they have no evidence for their god.  By doing so, they end up in solipsism, which is always amusing. 


Again, since Bodie has no idea what atheism actually is, he also tries to claim that atheism doesn’t explain the uniformity of nature.   Atheism wouldn’t do that; but the sciences can.  Physics is fine with the universe being uniform, and the Big Bang Theory provides an idea why it is that way.   We have no idea if the BBT was by chance or not.  Creationists also terribly ignorant about the most basic science; the BB is not an “explosion” (even a mechanical engineer should known that but willful ignorance and lies do make a man silly).  Physics can be as apparently eternal and universal as any god is invented to be.  There is no “random chance” as creationists claim in the universe.  We don’t have a cat in the hat bouncing around altering reality.  And formulas aren’t “beautiful”. They just are.  Poor Bodie, he tries to evoke emotion on math and physics to imply some magical god is needed. 


So, no, Bodie, not tired of anything you mention since all you claim is false. 

“Do you feel like you need a weekend to recoup, even though a weekend is really meaningless in an atheistic worldview — since animals, like bees, don’t take a day of rest or have a weekend? So why should atheists? Why borrow a workweek and weekend that comes from the pages of Scriptures, which are despised by atheists? Weeks and weekends come from God creating in six literal days and resting for a literal day; and then the Lord Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week (Sunday). And why look forward to time off for a holiday (i.e., holy day), when nothing is holy in an atheistic worldview?”


Ah, the appeal to emotion from a cult member. This is nothing new at all.  “Come with us, you’ll feel better”.  Alas for Bodie, I have had a great weekend.  I got to use a chainsaw for the first time since a branch was ripped of our tree by the windstorm.  I also had a great steak and was working on my art for a show I was accepted to. 


It’s always hilarious when a Christian tries so hard to claim responsibility for things they had nothing to do with.  Weeks and weekends do not come from their god, which ever version they believe in.  Those came from unions (watch the conservative Christians clutch their pearls).  Other religions have days they claim are holy, but no one outside of that religion cares about them.  Christians can’t even agree on what their holy day should be, so it’s very silly of Bodie to claim that his god is responsible.


And with his hilarious claim, then I guess we should be thanking the moon, Tyr, Odin, Thor, Frey/Freya, and Saturn on every other day of the week.    I of course look forward to any day I can do what I want.  No god or Bodie needed. 

“For professing atheists, these questions can be overwhelming to make sense of within their worldview.For professing atheists, these questions can be overwhelming to make sense of within their worldview. And further, within an atheistic worldview, atheists must view themselves as God. Essentially, atheists are claiming to be God. Instead of saying there may not be a God, they say there is no God. To make such a statement, they must claim to be omniscient (which is an essential attribute of the God of the Bible) among other attributes of God as well.5 So by saying there is no God, the atheist refutes his own position by addressing the question as though he or she were God!”

No, these “questions” aren’t overwhelming at all for atheists.  Bodie relies on ignorance, lies and fear to try to get people to agree with him and give him that external validation he so craves. 

Most atheists, except for maybe the aforementioned megalomaniac atheists, do not think we are gods.  We don’t pretend that we can affect the universe with magic, like, ahem, some people we know.


It is no problem at all to know that Bodie’s god and all of the other gods that humans have invented don’t exist.  There is no evidence to show that the essential events that these gods supposed did happened, and we can show that entirely different things happened on any particular date that a theist might want to claim that these divinely caused events did happen.  Bodie’s god is not some worm under a rock on Ceti Alpha V.  It has quite distinct attribute per the bible and Christians, so it wouldn’t be hard to miss.  I don’t have to be omniscient at all.  And considering what the bible says, neither is this god. 

“Do you feel conflicted about proselytizing the faith of atheism, since if atheism were true then who cares about proselytizing? Let’s face it, life seems tough enough as an atheist without having to deal with other major concerns like not having a basis to wear clothes, or no basis for marriage, no consistent reason to be clean (snails don’t wake up in the morning and clean themselves or follow other cleanliness guidelines based on Levitical laws), and no objective reason to believe in love.”

Now, Bodie has to repeat the theist claim that somehow atheism is a religion/faith: “a personal set or institutionalized system of religious(relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity) attitudes, beliefs, and practices”   Faith: 2)belief in the traditional doctrines(a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief) of a religion  – merriam webster  He does this to try to convince a non-theist to not show that his beliefs are baseless. 

His desperation shows through quite nicely here; “Let’s face it, life seems tough enough as an atheist without having to deal with other major concerns like not having a basis to wear clothes, or no basis for marriage, no consistent reason to be clean (snails don’t wake up in the morning and clean themselves or follow other cleanliness guidelines based on Levitical laws), and no objective reason to believe in love.””  His attempt to claim we atheists also have no reason to wear clothes or get married, or be hygienic, and not to be in love are quite histrionic.  Let’s see: frostbite, secular (originally based on religion) laws to follow that silly but still have to be followed, infection and my own delicate sense of smell, and well, love doesn’t depend on Bodie or his god.  That’s something we humans seem to have as an emergent property from our brains, and honestly, who cares if being in love is subjective or objective? Bodie and his god aren’t needed since all humans do it (except for the megalomaniacs again, and probably psycho- and sociopaths)  Humans care for each other; and we can be pretty sure other animals do too.  My cats seek me out even when I don’t have food for them or a warm spot to lay.  They like to be around me.  I like to be around those I love.  Who is to say it’s not the same? Oh and snails clean each other’s shells.   Nerite snails are notable for this, but others do it too.  It might just be because they are hungry and there is algae there, but they all get cleaned.

BTW, Levitical laws about cleanliness weren’t about hygiene, they were about offending this god (aka pathetic men) with human stuff, like menstruation and poop (we don’t want god to walk in our poop “12 “You shall have a place outside the camp, and you shall go out to it. 13 And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement. 14 Because the Lord your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and to give up your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy, so that he may not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.” Deuteronomy 23)  These were the ignorant people who thought that skin diseases could be cured by bird blood. 

“Are you weary of looking for evidence that contradicts the Bible’s account of creation and finding none?6 Do the assumptions and inconsistencies of dating methods weigh on your conscience when they are misrepresented as fact?7 Where do you suppose those missing links have gone into hiding? Surely the atheist sees the folly and hopelessness of believing that everything came from nothing.

In fact, why would an atheist care to live one moment longer in a broken universe where one is merely rearranged pond scum and all you have to look forward to is . . . death, which can be around any corner? And in 467 trillion years, no one will care one iota about what you did or who you were or how and when you died — because death is the ultimate “hero” in an atheistic, evolutionary worldview. Of course, as a Christian I disagree, and I have a basis to see you as having value.”


Bodie does try hard again when he tries to convince people that there are no contradictions in reality about the bible’s two contradictory creation stories.  That’s funny since they can’t even keep the order of creation straight in the bible itself.  Alas, Bodie is lying again.  We have plenty of evidence of evolutionary change and that organisms have gotten more complex as time has gone by, depending on environmental stressors.  We do not show animals starting out how they look now.  Alas, again, Bodie depend on lies and fear to try to get atheists to agree with him.  We have plenty of “missing links”:  List of transitional fossils – Wikipedia  

Dating methods aren’t wrong, but they do have limitations; and it’s grand fun to see creationists accept them for things they think support their nonsense e.g. the shroud of turin, dates for lumber in Egyptian buildings, etc.  Dating methods are often dependent on physics, and if physics is consistent, Bodie’s magic god can’t exist.  That’s why theist often get upset with dating, and when the dating methods show that their claims are wrong when they make up a date that their god did something. 

Since we don’t know if everything came from “nothing”(and do define that), there is a problem with Bodie’s lies again.  It seems that physics has no problem with something coming from a vacuum. And there is nothing morally bad about coming from nothing. Bodie tries so hard to play pretend that the universe is “broken” if it is the way it is which is always funny when creationists also love to claim how perfect the universe is in its “fine-tuning”. 

Just because we die doesn’t mean we have no value.  Why would it?  Death is part of life, we die to make room for others.  They have value too.  I don’t need to pretend that I somehow deserve to exist forever.  It’d be fun if I could, but until I get that titanium body that I can download my brain into, it’s not likely to happen. 

As for Christians thinking that humans have value, well, their god certainly doesn’t; so if they support its actions, they don’t.  It has no problem in killing humans constantly, either intentionally or by hold back its supposed healing magic.  This god only values humans in its need to be stroked.

Now, we get where Bodie thinks that by spewing bible verses, atheists will be so overtaken by their god that we’ll agree with Bodie.  His religious book is no more true than any other theist’s.  He cannot show that what he has invented from his magic decoder ring is any more true than the next Christians who contradicts him. 
He tries so hard to claim that atheists can’t believe in truth or lies.  Ummm, why?  We can see reality and point out when someone is misrepresenting it along with other humans.  Christians don’t agree on what is their truth or what are heresies, so there’s no reason to believe them.  They just can’t seem to get that great big stamp of god approval.  Some authority that can’t get it through to its believers what it wants. 

As usual, our Christian wants to define what a “consistent” atheist is since he knows he is lying about is.  He must make an atheist that does what he want, a very classic strawman.  Atheists do not tell you that you have no value.  That’s a lie from Bodie.   

Bodie wants to claim original sin makes you need his cure.  But why would a god who promised never to hold children to account for their parent’s sins, hold every human in account for two people who weren’t their parents (and didn’t exist)?  Happily, I do not feel that anyone should die for me and what I do.

Bodie is right, he has a need, aka a reason, to proselytize his faith.  Not that JC commanded him to, but that he can’t stand to be shown wrong.  He must be right in all things, and well, he isn’t.  He needs someone to continually tell him he is right. 

Atheists have a reason to point out that there are no god or gods.  Believe in them causes existential harm because of the ignorance that humans claim to be “objective truth” when it is not.  And we have plenty of basis for logic and reason.  It’s how the world works.  No gods involved that we have to shoehorn into things to invent a job for magical best friends who agree with you and supposedly protect you. 
Of course, the last salvo is more fear and ignorance.  He must invoke the “end times”.  Since Christians have to reup their subscription to the end times ever generation, they aren’t show much luck. 
The most logical response is to laugh at Bodie and his complete failure.  

I do note that poor ol’ Bodhie doesn’t follow his god’s commandments. They don’t stop at the first ten, dear Bodie.  I’ll save you a seat in hell.

A question Christians really can’t answer

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a Christian added me to a mailing list

Hey, I’ve had my first Christian who signed me up for a Christian email list.   I’m rather surprised that this is the first time it’s happened.   So, this person, who chose to be a liar and use my email address for something I did not want, and have already known about, shows just how Christianity doesn’t make anyone a better person.  It just makes them needy and hopeful that I’ll give them some external validation. 

Of course, I promptly unsubscribed.

Let’s look at what they added me too.  This was a list to crosswalkmail.com  and this seems to be a apologetics and preaching site for Joni Eareckson Tada.  Now, any young person back in the 70s who was a Christian probably knows about her.  She’s the quadriplegic from a diving accident and who has made a career in making excuses for her god and her condition.  Like many disabled Christians, they must convince themselves that their god has a “plan” for them, and every other disabled person.   They depend on false claims like “Everything, good or bad, is under God’s sovereign control. Nothing is too small or insignificant for his care and attention, including mildew! Praise God today for working out everything in your life according to his sovereign purposes.” And “Let’s Remember That God Is In Control! Everything, good or bad, is under God’s sovereign control. Nothing is too small or insignificant for His care and attention! Let’s praise God today for working out everything according to His sovereign purposes, as we learn from Joni and Friends!”
I can understand why they must tell themselves such baseless nonsense, since it’s that or realize that their god is imaginary or that their god is malevolent.  It’s very hard to come to grips with such a life-changing event especially if you were raised to think your god would take care of you no matter what, like the “lilies of the field”.  

What their excuses end up doing is having a god that needs to harm people for its “plan”.   Despite being omnipotent, omniscient and supposedly omnibenevolent, this god needed to make Joni a quadriplegic.  It somehow had no choice, but to cause her to need to be cared for by others for the rest of her life.  It doesn’t heal her, despite the promises that any baptized believer in Christ can heal people of sickness or injury.  She has to come up with a reason why her god does nothing at all like it supposed promises. 

So, thank you, random Christian, for giving me an opportunity to show how desperation leads to nonsense, an evil son of a bitch for a god and false claims. 

Poor Tezcatlipoca, caught in a revealing position. He tries to be cranky but sleeps on his back.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “miracles”? Not so much

Always good to see Christians admitting that they have no actual miracles but have to try to claim natural events as “miracles. The usual cowards at “Does God Exist?” Today, and John Clayton now try to make a migration a miracle from Exodus. You of course can’t comment on their false claims there.

“The Middle East Eye website carries an article titled “Quail Season Brings Rare Treat for Meat-Starved Gazans.” It tells of a regular migration of quails from Europe to the Middle East. If the wind is blowing against the migration, the birds become exhausted and land on the Gaza shore, where people capture them in nets to provide a source of badly needed protein. The point is that there is a natural way in which quails can provide food for a nation of people even today.

Funny how people need food *all* of the time. So much for this god giving food when needed, all of the time, rather than when a bunch of birds decide to move. And no surprise that there still hasn’t been one trashpit full of quail bones found anywhere around the supposed route of the Exodus.

And of course you can see my review of the quail episode in Exodus here: Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – 960,000 tons of what? – Club Schadenfreude

Funny how the Exodus fails yet again. And Christians are still desperate for any evidence that they can convince themselves with.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – that pesky free will

A fellow I’ve corresponded with on Facebook gave me a link to bible verses he claimed supported the idea of free will.  I’m bored, so I went through and looked at all of them.   My usual readers will recognize quite a bit of this, no reason to waste your time again.

Okay, let’s look at these verses that are claimed to support free will.   They may even do so, but then they contradict all of the verses that have this god interfering with human action, destroying free will.

I’ve added some of the context to some of these if appropriate.  One has to wonder about the Biblestudytools.com staff if they think all of these verses support the idea of free will.   They do list some of those verses that indicate predestination but not all.   In my opinion, one can get a far more comprehensive listing of verses by subject out at openbible.info

1 Corinthians 10:13

13 No testing has overtaken you that is not common to everyone. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tested beyond your strength, but with the testing he will also provide the way out so that you may be able to endure it.”

Nothing in this about free will.  It’s also a great verse to show how this bible lies when it says that this god won’t test people beyond their strength.  Christian suicides show this to be false.  Of course, Christians will always blame the victim to excuse their god.

Unsurprisingly, a little earlier in the chapter, in context, has Paul claiming that the Israelites were just examples made for Christians.  “Now these things occurred as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil as they did. “  This destroys free will when someone was forced to do something for someone else’s benefit as part of a *plan*.  This matches what Paul states in Romans 9 that pots are used to be examples and to be destroyed.

2 Chronicles 9:7

Happy are your people! Happy are these your servants, who continually attend you and hear your wisdom!”

Nothing in this about free will.  Servants are under control.  This is the queen of Sheba speaking to Solomon.  No evidence that Solomon ever existed or that this story is true.   The amounts of gold and other precious things are quite ridiculous (42 tons of gold? aka 666 talents), and funny how they all simply vanished.  For the world’s wisest man, the kingdoms in that area contributed nothing of note to the knowledge of the sciences.

Not doing so well so far. Continue reading “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – that pesky free will”

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “A Case for Christmas” critique Part 3

Part Three – “A Mind-Boggling Proposition”  yeah, it’s really called that.

So, in addition to the latest bit of nonsense from Lee Strobel about Christmas, I also got an email from another shilling preacher from biblegateway.com about the Jews.   Now, I find Jewish belief just as ridiculous as Christian or any other belief but the desperation of Christians to convert them is rather pathetic.  This fellow, Jonathan Bernis, President and CEO, Jewish Voice Ministries International says “You can help share the Gospel with Jewish people who have yet to hear about their Savior.

As followers of Jesus and Bible believers, our faith is deeply connected to Israel and the Jewish people. And as we enter into the Last Days, it’s more important than ever to stand with Israel and help the Jewish people find their promised Messiah.”

Well, the Jews are quite certain JC isn’t their messiah because they didn’t need to make up a repeat performance to make him fit their prophecies.  Christians are only concerned for the Jews to keep existing for at least a little longer, since their magical end times won’t happen without the slaughter of the Jews.  It’s always a bit hypocritical when you claim you are wanting to “Provide medical assistance to Jewish people and their neighbors” when all you really want to so is make sure that they are in place do die when you want them to.  When you praise a pandemic because it’ll make people run to you, that shows you are a sick person: “This pandemic is prompting Jewish people to search for meaning as never before. In fact, when Israel begins to open back up, we anticipate Israelis will be more open to hearing about the love and hope of our Messiah.” 

Okay, now back to the Christmas silliness.  This is the intro:

“Welcome to week three of The Case for Christmas Online Bible Study with Lee Strobel.

The Lord is the best giver of all. He delights in blessing his children because he’s a good father (Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13).

His best gift of all was, of course, Jesus! Who but God himself would have thought of sending the Messiah through a virgin teenager living in a backwater town? Imagine how much trust in God it must have taken for Isaiah to prophesy that out loud (Isaiah 7:14)!

This week, investigative journalist Lee Strobel asks, “Is the virgin birth consistent with reality?” And he explains why it’s so important that Jesus came to us through a virgin.

At the center of Christmas is the fact that this isn’t just an ordinary birth. This was a supernatural occurrence unlike any other birth in history and it’s embedded in our historic statements of faith. ~ Lee Strobel

Given God’s outrageous penchant for creativity in gift-giving, why wouldn’t he do something so extravagant in introducing his Son into the world?

If a God exists who is big enough to create the universe in all its complexity and vastness, why should a mere miracle be such a mental stretch? ~ Tim Keller

In today’s lesson, consider how an unsparing, bountiful, completely openhanded God loves to wow us!”

Now, if you’ve read the bible, the claims here seem to have a bit of a reek to them.  A god that has to show off.  How human.  I’ve been chatting with some Christians and Muslims this week on youtube and they have been telling me how dare I question the existence of their god, I, a speck of dust asking this god to prove itself to me.  So, this god has to show off to a speck of dust?

So, before I get into what Lee says, “creative gift giving” is a little strange to say about this god.  It gives “gifts” which are answered prayers, but they often require people to die in droves.  If this god gives you a win in a battle, he’ll accept your daughter given as a human sacrifice.  If this god gives you freedom per Exodus, this god supposedly kills thousands if not millions of people who couldn’t do anything about their pharaoh who was controlled by this god so it could show off. Continue reading “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “A Case for Christmas” critique Part 3″

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “A Case for Christmas” critique Part 1

Part One – Setting the Record Straight

Well, Lee has quite a challenge here since the story of the birth of Jesus Christ, and therefore Christmas, is certainly quite a mess.  We have two gospels that just ignore it, two that have the details everyone knows but are contradictory and Paul who has seems to have no idea what the gospels said about JC, except for a few bits about resurrection.

Lee says he thought he’d find that the claims about the nativity were going to be “flimsy”. Well, if the following isn’t flimsy, I’d hate to see what he would consider that.

The first claim is that his sources are too “immediate” to be considered legend.  He also claims that “legends” can have “contaminated” the “actual account of what really took place.”  So, which is it?  Add to this that the bible is supposedly inspired/written by a perfect omnipotent, omniscient being, and it doesn’t look too good for its validity.

First on the block of not being “quite right” is the manger scene.  Lee claims that it would be “unthinkable” for anyone to turn away a “pregnant Jewish woman seeking shelter.”  Nothing seems to support that at all, despite the claim of a “scholar”(Kenneth Bailey, a ThD whose entire experience relevant to this seems to be being a missionary in Egypt) saying it.  He also claims that the “inn” wasn’t part of the story, but again, nothing to show this in the bible which is ostensibly from a perfect being.  Is it lying or is Lee?  Rewriting the denial of shelter denies a bit of theology that insists that how martyred Christians are.  Lee also goes on to claim that there is a special word for “inn” in Greek rather than “kataluma” which is used in the NT to describe a rentable or guest room.  He never says what that other word is.  We also have Lee saying that a translation of the bible nearly 1400 years later goes from “guest room” to “inn”.   Amazing how mangled this perfect god allows its one and only set of words to humans to get.

Lee also tries to claim that somehow Jews and people in the middle east would allow their farm animals into the living area.  Noting how paranoid these people are about being ritually clean, it’s hard to imagine that would be allowed, to the point of having a manger in the living room from the animals to eat from?   I grew up on a dairy farm and often found myself in the milking parlor where the cows would poop whenever they wanted to and sometimes to ah, “explosive”, results.  I also mucked out the area were they lived, especially during the winter.

Lee also claims that the Protoevangelion of James is the source of Mary being really really pregnant and that it is mostly legendary.  One wonders which parts Lee considers true, Mary being fed by angels?  Mary’s hymen being examined?   It’s no less or more silly than the other versions of the story.  (now, if you want a really bizarre one, try the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, written around the same time. Continue reading “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “A Case for Christmas” critique Part 1″

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – as expected Christians who supported Trump now insist that they never did

As some of my readers might remember, I’ve clashed with John Branyan and his rather peculiar daughter Amanda before.

They were all for Trump, how great he was, how Amanda voted for him and how dare anyone point out how much he was a failure.  We can see that right here “On behalf of your friends and family who are sick of listening to you but are too polite to stop you, I’m offering 6 things you can do instead of nursing your irrational hatred for Donald Trump. You believe you’re doing a good thing when you “expose Trump’s vile behavior”. You’re wrong. We prefer Trump’s behavior to your endless bloviation…”  You can only see part of his nonsense now.  JB is hiding behind a “membership” wall on his blog.  How expected.

He also had lovely bits like this too:

“Vote by mail requires you to be stupid. To be clear, the people suggesting vote by mail are quite clever. They might even be geniuses. Vote by mail is a brilliant idea that will have an enormous impact on national elections. Only stupid people think that is a good thing.

Universal vote by mail was created strictly for the purpose of cheating.”

Always good to see that poor JB agreed with Trump….once upon a time

and now we get:

“My target audience for this article is Christians who boarded the “Trump Train” back in 2016 thinking it would take them to where America was great again.

Other people would start this article with, “I hate to say I told you so,” but it would be dishonest for me to do that. I LOVE to say, “I told you so.” Being right about things feels great!”

oh gosh, poor JB doesn’t quite figure out that his blog is a recorded media.

Now, how many quatloos you want to bet he’ll try to claim he was just “joking”?

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – yet one more TrueChristian(tm) offers a “challenge” to atheists and fails

So, we have a Christian, Andy Bannister, who wants to ask “Why are some atheists so afraid of changing their minds?”.  This is a video, and of course, the comments are turned off.  So much for being the “confident” Christians that Solas claims on their website, eh?

Unsurprisingly, the video starts off with the usual false claims about atheists, how rude we all are for not blindly accepting what the particular Christian says, that we all evidently can’t come up with anything ourselves but have to repeat what other atheists say (which begs the question “since we are all repeating someone else, who is actually the originator of these things?”), that we have bad grammar and spelling (oh do call the kettle black, pot), and of course trying to be insulting by equating atheist with idiot, in the ever-so clever “village atheist” comment.

We end up quickly in the claims somehow atheists are fearful and this is “why” atheists don’t engage with the “best” arguments for Christianity.  This isn’t a new claim, it is just the “sophisticated theology” bit of nonsense that many Christians trot out, that atheists only pick the low hanging fruit to address.  This excuse is, of course, dependent on the theist being willfully ignorant about how atheists have indeed addresses those “best” arguments too.  This video isn’t for atheists, it is for a Christian to reinforce the false beliefs of himself and other Christians.  Apologetics aren’t for atheists, they are for theists.

Unsurprisingly, Andy says that atheists should “properly” examine the claims of the Christian faith.  The term “properly” comes up often in apologetics and the definition that is used this context is “in an acceptable or suitable way” not “in an accurate or correct way”.  It is nothing more than a code word for agreeing with the theist and not questioning what they say, something that is “acceptable” to them.

Andy goes on to appeal to authority in the form of Alistair McGrath, who evidently must be correct because he has a degree.  This fellow, anglican priest at Oxford (who defines atheists as ” I became an atheist – somebody who deliberately and intentionally does not believe in God and thinks that anyone who does believe in God is mentally deficient or seriously screwed up.'”, supposedly received a letter from a student that who became a Christian after reading one of McGrath’s books and the “very best” Christian philosophers.  Of course, this student was an atheist, because that makes the story.  This atheist never ever read the “other side of the argument” but when he did, poof, he became a Christian.  This of course ignores reality since this doesn’t happen every time, and indeed, atheists often become atheists because they did read the holy book of Christianity and realized what nonsense it is and read other books to see that the bible didn’t reflect reality.  To see McGrath’s other use of failed apologetics, here is a video/transcript of an interview with him.  This is the “quality” of McGrath’s arguments:  “Number one, there are a very large number of scientists who are religious believers; and these are not stupid people at all. ”  Quite a pathetic start, an appeal to authority fallacy.  Here‘s a more thorough take down of McGrath’s arguments.  If he is one of the ‘best’, Christianity doesn’t have much to support  it.

Andy goes on to repeat the claim that atheists don’t address the “best” arguments for Christianity by recommending these “best” authors like Rebecca McLaughlin.  Now, Dr. McLaughlin is one of those with again degrees, beloved by Biologos and is an entirely awful apologist.  This is her on her ‘one minute apologetics.”  “The Jesus of the Gospels is either God in the flesh or a terrible imposter. There is no middle ground.”  That is really all she has, nothing different from Paul saying, yep, we believe becuase we gotta believe.  She wrote a book, Confronting Christianity: 12 Hard Questions for the World’s Largest Religion.  That’s one assumption right in the title, since we know that Christians don’t consider each other Christians by the millions.  Looking at the amazon preview of the book, we see the usual apologetics, that somehow Christianity has dibs on every good human action and is the only thing responsible for human rights, the claim that persecution makes Christianity true, that somehow atheists have no morality, etc.  In other words, the same false and baseless claims, nothing new or “sophisticated” here at all.

He also of course tries to claim that atheists don’t read these arguments with an open mind and accusing atheists of being cowards and not “serious”, to again try to claim that we aren’t being honest or brave or seriously considering the material.  He also insists that pointing out that a Christian is wrong is being “rude”, doing the typical appeal to politeness when he has nothing else.  Nothing like a Christian accusing someone of lying and having no evidence for it.

It is interesting that Andy never mentions what a single one of these “best” arguments are.  One would suspect that is because when one of the arguments is dismantled, he can insist that wasn’t one of the “best” ones and then run to the next, never taking responsibility for his claims.

Atheists aren’t afraid of changing our minds.  We have no reason to .

What the Boss Likes – Some random photos

I was going through my photos on my phone and decided to put a handful up.

pumpkin pie
pumpkin pie

Pumpkin Pie that I made this weekend.  I’ve found I like the Joy of Cooking version the best, which uses heavy cream rather than the common American ones that use evaporated and/or condensed milk.

 

two cats
two of our cats

This is Mr. Athena (top) and Hera (bottom).  Mr. Athena (a male cat that we named before we could tell what sex the kittens were) is the kitten of Hera.  Hera had five kittens who grew to this size.  They are about twice as big as she is.

PA forest and creek
PA forest and creek

This is a pretty typical forest/creek in western PA.  It’s in a place called Mineral Springs, outside of Emlenton, PA.   There are many orange colored seeps in Western PA thanks to the coal, iron ore and sulfur in the area.  It is called Mineral Springs because of

Mineral Spring
Mineral Spring

This mineral rich spring.  You can see leaves and branches being coated with minerals.  They’ll probably be fossils someday. At one point, people could take the waters here for their health.

praying mantis
PA forest and creek

A praying mantis that came with a delivery of plants when I was working as a plant merchandiser.  She was having a good time eating.

hummingbird clearwing moth
hummingbird clearwing moth

You can see a hummingbird clearwing moth at the lower left.  He was hard to get a picture of since he was moving fast.  Those are butterfly bushes being visited.