Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – “Why can’t animals talk?”

of course this isn’t history but a sadistic story

Rabbi Gellman, who used to be part of the God Squad with a catholic priest, still has a syndicated column. I occasionally address them there. This time it’s a column that in my paper is titled “why don’t animals talk”.

Now many cultures have myths on why this is. They are just-so stories like Kipling wrote. Raven can’t talk anymore because he stole fire for mankind and carried it in his beak.

The answer we have from the rabbi to ostensibly a third-grade girl is that it is somehow to teach humans “not just about right and wrong but also about wrong and right and even more right.”   (Italics mine) What the hell? This certainly drives a spike into the objective claims of morality from theists. If this god allows something that it kinda isn’t good with, but there is a better idea, then why not require the truly “good” idea? The rabbi wants to have it that eating meat is okay with his god but its better if we could eat without causing some animal to “suffer and die”.

In this column, Gellman mentions Genesis 1:29 and Genesis 9:3. They are, with a little added for context (the specific verses are italicized):

26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”27 So God created humankind[e] in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” 29 God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.” Genesis 1

Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.

22 As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night,  shall not cease.”

1God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. 4 Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.” – Genesis 8-9

So, we have a god that has no problem with killing and burning animals for its own pleasure, so Gellman’s claim that this god is all about veganism isn’t true in the slightest. This god is so all about meat is that he rejects Cain’s offering of fruits and vegetables, and approves of Abel’s offering, also making it questionable why Abel was bothering with killing animals at all since they weren’t eating them, and why this god had to kill and skin animals to make clothes for the newly naked Adam and Eve. The rabbi claims that his god gives the allowance to Noah to eat meat “grudgingly”. That is no where in the verses.

The rabbi then gives a rather horrible little story (midrash) about how Noah wanted a hamburger. He has the snake being truthful and saying one has to make a hamburger (and seemingly implying that it was being evil, which begs the question, why was this snake on the ark?). Noah, for no reason other than personal want, kills and eats his friend the cow. This is from a person who chats regularly with this god. The end of the story is that animals don’t talk to humans because that Noah ate one of them and they are upset.

So are animals upset with this god too since it demands their death?

Which of the cows did Noah eat and how does this work with the other utterly silly story in the bible where it can’t make up its mind on how many animals Noah took with him on the ark?

If we can eat “Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything” then why the claims we can’t eat some of these things in Exodus and Leviticus? This god is so forgetful, losing things, forgetting what he’s said before.

This a prime example of theists making up nonsense thoughtlessly and making things ever worse for their bible’s claims.

“Back of all these superstitions you will find some self-interest. I do not say that this is true in every case, but I do say that if priests had not been fond of mutton, lambs never would have been sacrificed to God. Nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use, and it always so happened that God wanted what his agents liked. Now, I will not say that all priests have been priests “for revenue only,” but I must say that the history of the world tends to show that the sacerdotal class prefer revenue without religion to religion without revenue.” – Robert Ingersoll (lots more excellent quotes here for those who don’t think atheists used to be as feistyt as they are now)

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a Christian’s excuse for supporting an anti-christ aka Trump

Haden, over at Helpmebelieve.com, has done a great job at showing just what some Christians will do to gain power. Haden, unsurprisingly, is a Trumpie.  Nothing new is here.  Pretty much every Trumpie will make the same excuses.

As some of you might know, the editor of Christianity Today, a magazine started by the Billy Graham family of pastors, wrote an article on why Christians shouldn’t support Donald J. Trump.   Haden is quite sure that it is wrong for Galli to have pointed out why Christians shouldn’t support a liar, a cheat, a self-proclaimed sexual abusers, someone who has said he doesn’t need forgiveness by Haden’s god, and who idolizes murderous dictators that kill their own people, including Christians.

“It is no secret that evangelicals are split on Trump. Many are his strongest allies. Many view him as an abomination. Many voted for him simply because they did not like their other options. “

Vanishingly few evangelical Christians find Trump an abomination. Most voted for him because they are indeed bigots and wannabee theocrats that will do anything for power. We know that they want judges appointed to give them a chance to legislate their religion into law.

It’s something when Haden claims this “Although, naturally a Christian evangelical publication is going to lean right and conservative.” This does seem to be a tendency but what is this reason when their supposed savior was a communist who supported the sick and the poor? It seems that again, Christianity is made up by the believer, not the other way around.

We do know Haden’s stance, anything for power and anyone who doesn’t agree with him is not a true Christian. He isn’t objective but he does want to claim that *no one* is, as an excuse for himself. Haden says he will likely vote for Trump in 2020. “I won’t vote for anyone else”, and he admits that. Someone who won’t vote for anyone else has declared that Trump is indeed is “favorite guy in the world.” His bias *is* in the open.

As much as Haden doesn’t like facts, there are some that show that his intended choice, above anyone else, is indeed someone that Christians wouldn’t vote for.

Haden tries to argue that Trump, by trying to force a foreign power to conduct a baseless investigation of an American citizen, isn’t “really” an abuse of power. What is Haden’s excuse? That Galli hadn’t mentioned all of the evidence in the editorial. Of course, one can read the report from the House to see all of the sworn testimony and evidence. We don’t have the actual transcripts since they have been hidden by Trump in a separate confidential server.  Funny how Trump isn’t willing to be under oath and is terrified if any of his closest people are under oath. An oath to be honest before Haden’s god. Hmmmm.  We do have the evidence, Haden, and you again try to ignore that fact.

The editorial, and Haden’s (plus other evangelicals) actions do paint themselves as ignoring their bible and their god.  The editorial in CT has “That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.” Haden is offended by that last statement.

Hmmm, how dare anyone expect Haden to be loyal aka faithful to his god and to what the bible claims? Well, what does the bible actually say about a man like Donald J. Trump and his known actions? Is salvation conditioned on support of Trump or not?

Is salvation connected to actions at all? Well, that’s a problem for Christians since, again, they disagree if it is or not. There is the “always saved” bunch, the “actions will happen because of faith” bunch, the “faith alone” bunch, and “any good act is rewarded” bunch.

But if we look at the bible itself, it seems rather clear on at least what this god doesn’t want in a leader. But in the bible we do have that problem that Paul claims that *any* leader is put in place by this god, so obedience to a leader is indeed required for salvation, despite what Haden says “So, does Galli really believe that if one votes, or supports Trump, that one is not loyal to God? If pressed, surely he would not make salvation conditioned on support, or non-support, of a president. Even if we tone down the language to that of obedience, surely this is an overreach.”

Ummm, yep, Haden, your bible does literally say this: Romans 13 if you are confused (or trying to ignore it).

Haden’s also horrified that anyone dares not call him the only True Christian, and that other Christians might find this to be the case. Haden of course does this repeatedly. And oh no, someone dares to speak prophetically about how Christians should act? You mean like Pat Robertson, Robert Jeffress and others that Haden follows? Such the pot calling the other Christian kettle black.

Indeed, Haden, who will take you seriously after you support Trump? He offers these excuses:

  • “The truth of the Gospel message is not dependent upon the character of the Gospel messenger.”

In that no Christian can come up with a “truth” here that they all agree on is the problems Christians like Haden have.

  • “The effectiveness of the Gospel message is not dependent upon the character of the Gospel messenger.”

That Christians can’t agree makes a completely ineffective message since the message changes with each Christian.

  • “If a person will only accept the Gospel message on the condition that I publicly denounce Trump, that person does not understand the message.”

If a person notes that you ignore your bible, that person understands that you cherry pick what you want to accept.

  • “A vote for Trump is not a justification of all of his actions and words. I repeat: a vote for Trump is not a justification of all of his actions and words.”

This from a Christian who wants you to think he doesn’t completely support Trump but who will vote for NO ONE ELSE. It is a justification of all of his actions and words.

That people vote for Trump means that they *have* justified his actions and words to be more important than following what the Bible says. Haden desperately wants abortion to be made criminal. He will accept anything as long as he thinks that will happen. He is indeed saying that as long as he gets what he wants “the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end”. Haden literally says this “if we don’t vote for the conservative candidate that has the best chance at winning, we are more likely to get a president who will make our efforts toward ending abortion that much more difficult.” The end justifies the means, a suitable amoral idea that goes well with the “might equals right” claims of conservative Christianity.

There are no false dichotomies as Haden would claim. His words out his intentions. Unlike Haden’s claim “We can support the candidate that is most pro-life “friendly” while at the same time calling-out his moral failures.” , these people never consider or call out Trump’s moral failures. They invent excuses for them, just like Haden is doing.

For people like Haden, abortion is just a “think of the children” lie that they use to try to hide their desire for a theocracy. That they consistently elect people who cut help to families and children aka “innocent human beings made in the image of God” and who have no problem with over a thousand children lost in Trump’s immigration nightmare, and who don’t want children to have the best chance in life, shows that they are not “pro-life” at all. Not caring for children after they leave the womb shows that all they want is control.

For someone who wants to toss about the term “genocide”, Haden doesn’t want that term being used for his god when the bible has it commanding genocide committed on other people. If genocide is wrong, then it is always wrong. If not, then Haden’s god is as subjective as Haden is. Haden assumes he knows what his god is concerned with “At the risk of going too far, let me ask, what is God more concerned with? The way other people view you, or the genocide of millions of innocent lives? The question is really: Are you willing to support a president with a less than perfect moral life for the sake of ending abortion, or not?”

Hmmm, a god that commands genocide? This god has done nothing about abortion. The bible only mentions the killing of children as being approved of or being done directly by this god. If we go with the bible, abortion is at best no concern of this god, and at worst, approved of by this god. Are you willing to support a god that is like this?  A god that wants you to go for a “lesser of two evils”, which is not a biblical idea? Are you willing to ignore the parts of the bible that say not to follow a liar, a cheat, an adulterer, etc?

“Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” – 2 John 1

As we end up seeing, Haden is all about winning and power. “To them I say: show me the pro-life candidate with a perfect moral life that actually has a chance at winning.” And then we see this “Whatever option you take, far be it from me to question your “loyalty” to God as Galli has done.” Except, you know, when Haden insists that some Christians really aren’t Christians, like Mormons, JWs, etc.

Haden insists that some candidate needs to be supported, but we have the bible saying to not bother with the actions of this world. It would only be someone who is quite sure that this world is it when he is so concerned about it. That an evangelical has no one to vote for shouldn’t be an issue.

It seems we have a schism between conservative Christians and Trumpie Christians. Haden is a Trumpie Christian, close to a conservative Christian, but another step away in being sure that he and he alone can decide what this god wants and ignoring even more of his bible as is convenient. Even the OT, the bastion of conservative Christianity, doesn’t go far enough for him. Losing this “base” isn’t a bad thing at all. For all of the claims of “irrelevantness” about who Billy would have voted for, Haden found it necessary to mention.

The hypocrisy of conservative Christians and Trumpie Christians is fun to watch. They are after each other with knives, and all about who knows their invisible friend best.  I do feel sorry for the Christians who are good people in spite of the religion.   They often get tarred with the same brush.

Just in case Christians are a bit forgetful about what their god says about following someone just for power and excusing what he does when convenient:

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.” Matthew 7

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?” – 2 Corinthians 6

“You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. You shall not fall in with the many to do evil, nor shall you bear witness in a lawsuit, siding with the many, so as to pervert justice, nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his lawsuit.” – Exodus 23

“And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”” -Luke 18

“Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death19 is the man who deceives his neighbor
and says, “I am only joking!””- Proverbs 26

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21

But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) By no means! For then how could God judge the world? But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.” – Romans 3

Some will chide me for using the bible to point out the failures of Christians and Christianity, mostly Christians. But how else to show such hypocrisy and thoughtlessness?  No one needs the bible or Christianity or Christians to be a humane person.  If you aren’t even going to try, you get to be held responsible.

Reasons To Celebrate

A very good post on the believer’s desperate need for evidence.

TheCommonAtheist

The real miracle about evidence is the believers ability to dismiss what doesn’t agree with faith. That same faith that is simply an emotional attachment to an idea that, A: was forced upon them, or B: just feels right, or C: There are so many believers they can’t all be wrong, can they? There are more in there, I’m certain.

This New Year’s Eve, let’s drink to belief, anchoring bias, cognitive dissonance, and to evidence. Not just any evidence, mind you, but real evidence like chariot wheels in the Red Sea, the Shroud of Turin, the Golden Plates™️, Salamander Letters, The Cardiff Giant, Indian Guru Sai Baba’s Legerdemain, the discovery of Noah’s Ark, and the Ossuary of James, brother of Jesus.

All the above are faith promoting because of their fraudulent hoax. The religious love to downplay empirical evidence (until they think they have some) then will embrace pure junk…

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Not So Polite Dinner Conservation – Those magi, and yay, a child is destined to be killed

On the road, over two thousand years ago

Balthasar: hey guys, I was doing up that kid’s astrology chart.

Caspar: what kid’s?

Melchior: You know, that one who is going to be king of the Jews one day, you gave the myrrh.

Caspar: Oh yeah. What about him?

Balthasas: I think we got the wrong one. Damnit, I knew I should have read those Jewish myths more closely. This one is dead in a little over 30 years, tortured to death by the Romans and Jews.   That Jupiter in retrograde is a bitch.

Melchoir: But I did a chart and shows that this kid would be celebrated for millenia.

Caspar: So this god made a kid, had it killed for what this god decreed to happen in the Jewish myths and then people celebrated that? But not the Jews?

Balthasar: (tossing his scroll onto the camp fire) This stuff is such crap. When we get home, I’m just sticking with observation and experimentation.

/satire

On our road trip to see family this weekend, my husband noted that it was really weird to have a big winter celebration in honor of the birth of a child that was decreed to die in a few decades because of its father needing a death to make itself happy for something it did intentionally thousands of years before.

Of course, the story about the magi is yet another time when the bible shows its failure in making any sense. The magi go into a house, not a stable or manger. Per the story, the kid was around two years old, since Herod supposedly had a massacre of children of that age (no evidence for this either). The eastern orthodox churches have up to 12 magi (which makes me think of the scene in The Life of Brian when the roman soldiers are filing in and out of the hide out of the People’s Front of Judea) visiting which would just be funny.

 

And of course the actual scene with the magi:

Being happy about a birth that only leads to death and misery required by a god though the actions of its supposed archenemy for no reason is a greedy sadist’s act.

It’s a lot more coherent to celebrate the sun’s warmth, the turning of the seasons and the best things in life: food, drink and the people you love in your life.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – talking to Christians, Christians talking to non-Christians etc

This weekend I was at an holiday craft show with my art.  Despite rather awful weather, standing in a puddle the first day and being wind-whipped the second, I did fairly well.  It’s always a nice thing when people actually buy something you’ve made or even just compliment it.  I hate to admit I do like the external validation 😊

One of the things I was selling were these little resin casts of cat faces.  The mold comes in a set with a good kitty, having a gem in its forehead and a bad kitty with little horns.  Now, if you have cats, you know they can be bad kitties often, mine currently having been chewing on my yule tree.  I sold quite a few of these little guys.

I had wondered if, since this was a Christian sponsored event, anyone would comment.  And sure enough someone did.

A nice millennial-type gal came up and bought a magnet and a holiday painting of a couple of candles with a Christmas tree in the background.  She then came back and asked me if I was into “witchcraft” and picked up one of the kitty heads, a back one with gold horns.  I said, “Nope, they are just kitty heads, if you are into witchcraft or whatever doesn’t mean much to me if you see them that way. I’m an atheist.”  I may as well have grown a third eye, but she hid her surprise well.  “Oh well, I was wondering since this is a church event. Okay, thank you.”

And then she came back again with her boyfriend.  “I mean, I just have to ask, were you a Christian before or how did you…..”  she trailed off.   I grinned and said “Yep, I was raised a Presbyterian and was one until probably my early twenties.  Then I read the bible and realized that there was no evidence for anything in it.”

“Oh. Well, did you read “The Case for Christ”  by Lee Strobel.”

“Yep, it’s a very bad set of claims that have no evidence for them.”

“Oh it’s such a powerful book.”

“Sorry, I didn’t see it that way and I can answer all of his points.  I’ve also read Craig, Lewis, and they are trying to convince Christians, not convert anyone.”  They were at a loss so I gave them my business card and invited them to email me if they wanted to talk further.  They wished me Merry Christmas and left.

I was half-expecting to be asked to leave if they ran to the organizers but nothing happened.   But this is the mission that has to ask the entire community for donations when there are hundreds of churches around, so I think they are happy to have anyone support them.  Incidentally, if you are looking for a review and rebuttal of Strobel’s books, there are a couple here: https://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html  and https://infidels.org/library/modern/paul_doland/strobel.html  They are all a rehash of the same poor arguments.

Now, I’ve been finding various Christians insisting that they have such great ways to answer skeptics, like these two Christians could have used.  Haden Clark, over at “Help me believe”  does this.

In this blog entry, we have Haden claiming he has 5 tips for talking with skeptics. Let’s look at how well these will work.

As someone who claims that they know “a bit” about Christian apologetics, Haden thinks these ideas will help someone.  When the someone finds they don’t, well, it doesn’t look good for an apologist.   When promises don’t come true, belief in them fails as religion is finding out as more and more people leave it.  What Haden gives are excuses.

1)   You are not Superman

This is where Haden says that the apologist doesn’t need the answer to every objection.  Aka how dare someone expect a Christian to know what they are talking about.  So, Haden advises, if you don’t know the answer, it’s okay and Christianity has lasted 2000+ years so it doesn’t need you.  The problem with this is that Christianity has changed vastly in those 2000+ years because Christians don’t know much about their own religion.

2)  Ask the First Question

Here, the first question is “If Christianity were true and you could know it with 100% certainty, would you become a Christian?”  The problem here is which Christianity?  Christians don’t agree on the most basic things, so the apologist has a problem.

Haden, like most Christians, assumes that he and only he has the “truth”.  And that any “level-minded” person would agree with him.  With the lack of evidence for any truth, Haden has a problem with his question.  If Christianity is what some Christians claim, I’d not have much problem with following it.   If it is like other Christians claim, I might believe in this god but would never become a Christian.  Since I read the bible, I certainly would never become a follower of this god if the bible’s stories were true, even if I might believe in it.

Haden also makes claims about people he has supposedly interacted with but it’s hard to know if these interactions ever occurred.  Haden claims that if someone won’t agree with him that they would become a Christian if he could show Christianity true, then he can’t discuss things with them because he needs the excuse that they will “never” accept what he says, a common Christian excuse.  As opposed to what Haden claims, yes, as skeptics, they are indeed rejecting Christianity because they find it hard to believe.  If this god was shown to be the violent primitive one in the bible, there is good reason not to accept it, even if one does believe it exists.  Haden recommends prayer to his god to get people to agree with the apologist, which never works out and offers another problem: why does this god not answer his believers?  Well, as most of my readers know, this is when this god becomes “mysterious”.

It’s easy for Haden to recommend low-hanging fruit and avoid someone who might offer some resistance.

3) Ask More Questions

A rather curious bit of advice considering the advice given above.  Haden is quite sure that most people haven’t thought about why they believe or why they don’t.   So he advises asking questions of the target of his conversion:  “What do you mean by that?  And “How do you know that?”

Those two questions get Christians in a lot of sticky situations for them.  That second one is the common one where some creationist tries such nonsense when asking “how do you know that evolution happened?”  And then when asked “how do they know the events in the bible happened?”  they find they can’t come up with a valid answer that won’t show their question to be asked in hypocrisy.

The first question is when the Christian ends up trying to redefine words so their claims work.   In Haden’s example, he says that he defines a “fetus” as a human child and non-christians claim it is  “clump” of cells”.   Well, we don’t since most of us know that a fetus is beyond the clump of cells stage.   We also know that a human child is what a fetus becomes.

He also tries to shift the burden of proof from himself and onto the person he is asking questions of.  He offers a strawman atheist claim “In this scientific age, we know miracles don’t happen” and then proceeds to attack it.   What would have been said is that “In this scientific age, we have no evidence that miracles happen.”   If Haden wants to claim that they do, then it is his burden to show that miracles happen now and have happened. His attempt to shift the burden is easily recognized and laughed at.  He also wants to try to redefine miracle to gain an advantage.  Since in his Christian context, a miracle is a action by his god that is not explainable by natural laws, then we know what he is claiming happens.   That we have no evidence of this is his problem.

Just asking questions doesn’t take the “stress” off the apologist at all.  It just shows that they can’t answer what is asked and need a trick to avoid doing so.

4) Don’t Get Sidetracked

So, here, when the Christian apologist is asked questions, Haden advises to avoid answering.  How not surprising.  And I really don’t remember asking “What about dinosaurs?” to a Christian.

He tries to avoid the problem by simply asking “who cares?”  aka “I haven’t a good answer so I’m going to falsely pretend these things don’t matter.”  These “silly questions” are posed since the Christian and their religion make claims that aren’t supported by evidence.   They make claims that aren’t supported by even their own bible.  These things have plenty to do with the Christian and their religion, despite Haden’s false claim that they don’t.

Haden claims that the only things that matte are his god’s existence and the resurrection.  Okay, then we can ask questions about those too, which makes Haden’s protests look very funny.  There is no evidence for those claims either.

Haden believes in the innerancy of the bible, but claims that even if it were true that the bible contained contradictions, it wouldn’t mean that his god doesn’t exist or that Jesus didn’t rise from the grave.  Unfortunately for Haden, that is exactly what it means since there is no reason to believe the claims about this god’s existence nor the resurrection.  The bible is his only source of claims for both.

5) Be humble.

The world “humble” is a problem for Christians because they really really want to be called humble, but they also want to claim that only they know the “TRUTH”.  They want to win arguments no matter what, despite Haden’s false claim that they don’t.

When they find that their claims aren’t being accepted without thought, that’s often when the “I’ll pray for you” comes out and the discussion ends.

I’ve let Haden know that I’ve done a post on his, but he seems loathe to let me comment.  That seems to speak volumes about his confidence in his claims.

What the Boss Likes – Getting back in the blogging saddle

Apollo kitty

Here I am again, trying to catch up on some blogging.  I’m going to try to post much more often though we’ll see how that works out.

Let’s see, what’s been going on at the Club:

Harley is almost as big as Aggie now.

 

The kittens have grown quite a bit.  They don’t often meow, but they trill at us and each other constantly.  Happily, one did that in bed this morning because I mis-set the alarm clock and we would have been late for work.   We got an excellent cat tree for them, by Feandrea.  We got ours through Amazon.  We’ve also discovered hat they really like dirt.  They were born under a shed on bare dirt and they managed to get into our basement which is half cemented and half an open crawlspace (our house is old).   They get their white fur quite gray since they just love

sleeping in the dirt.

Roasted pumpkin

I made a pumpkin pie from scratch and then one from a can of pumpkin puree using Libby’s “new-fashioned” recipe on the can.  Both were good, but I think I like the one from the can better. It’s very fluffy and easier since rather than using sugar and milk, you use a can of sweetened condensed milk (something I also enjoy in my coffee).

tasty pie

A neighbor’s house caught on fire this past weekend, so be careful with portable heaters everyone!

We made Northern Brewer’s Honey Weizen beer.  It’s very nice, with a whiff of honey.  The next up will be the Koa Coconut Porter.

I’ve been playing with epoxy resin and my alcohol inks and did a show a couple of weeks ago.  I’ll be doing another for a fundraiser for a local homeless shelter. Yep, it’s a Christian mission, but they do good work for folks who have nowhere to go.  For all of the churches around here, they don’t support the shelter as you would think and it has to ask the whole community.

my craftshow table. I’m not a great photographer

Finally got cold enough here so I can use my beloved weighted blanket.  😊

We also put up a Christmas tree.  I had been wanting one for years but hated to waste the money.  Then I managed to get a tree on sale after last Christmas.  What I didn’t intend is having so many cats with the tree. However, they have been really good about not bothering it.  Of course, everything on the tree is unbreakable.

Well, that’s enough for now.  I’ll be back to my usual commenting about food, religion, politics and more in the near future.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – answering “Answering Atheism’s Questions Part 1: Is God’s Character Abusive?”

Is the Christian god abusive? Well, that depends on which version since each Christian comes up with one they create in their own image.  The author of the blog post I’m addressing does want to claim that his version isn’t an abuser.

Generally, abusive would mean “ using or involving physical violence or emotional cruelty” (all definitions from merriam-webster.com). So, does god use physical violence? Yes, it’s hard to count how many times.  Does it use cruelty: the state of inflicting injury grief or pain? Yes. The bible has many instances of this, allowing Satan to murder Job’s family, killing david’s son for David’s sins, killing children for the actions of heir parents, using young girls as war booty for Israelites and for treasure for its temple, insisting that if a man is a slave and he is freed but his family is not, he has to choose between freedom and them, blinding a man so this god can show off, etc.

Some Christians, like Ed Croteau), try to make a division between Jesus and God (although perhaps not, but it’s hard to get exactly what Christians think about the trinity, and Christians don’t all agree that Jesus is god or that Jesus is not god), but that doesn’t work so well since this “son of god” says that everything his father does and commands is okay by him, and that all of those silly commandments in the OT have to be follows until earth and heaven pass away. They are still around.

I haven’t read Finch, but she seems to be quite happy to get away from the lies of evangelical Christianity, having recognized that Christians make up their own nonsense and then try to convince others that some magical being agrees with them and only them. Her quote ““So often for those raised within evangelical environments, any single moment of perceived failure, any mistake, any step outside the previously established lines can paralyze with life-altering fear, anxiety, shame, and dread, because the trauma of early teaching is essentially playing on a loop within us.” Is quite true since people use fear and ignorance to try to control people and it is especially hard on kids. And when those kids grow up and realize that they were lied to, it’s even harder since they really did trust those who lied to them.

I happily wasn’t an evangelical Christian, I was a Presbyterian, which has its own whole other bag of problems since Christians do get cranky when non-Christians wonder which is the real version, predestination vs free will, Catholic vs protestant, etc. I do know that Finch is a bit confused on her bible knowledge but her version is as good as any other for why this god had bit of a personality break between the OT and NT (depending on the author of each book of course).

Despite what Ed claims, there is no “clear message of Jesus Christ” and that is why a lot of younger folks (I’m in my 50s) realize that there is no reason to believe in Christianity at all. We have the god/Jesus of preachers like Jeffress who ignore their bible as long as they get power, we have Joel Osteen who is sure that prayers are answered like the bible promises and everyone can get rich, we have liberal pastors who are sure that this god doesn’t hate homosexuals or other Christian of varying sects and we have Christians who are sure that this god hate Catholics, or Protestants, or whatever flavor they don’t follow. I grew up watching protestants hate catholics.

They also realize that there is no evidence Jesus existed, or that he was the messiah described in the OT since he doesn’t fulfill those promises at all.

We also have the problem that the verses from Isaiah claimed in Luke weren’t about a messiah at all, but were Isaiah speaking about himself or this god. When such a false statement is so easily found out, there is little reason to believe the Christian who made it. The author of Luke claims that some prophecy is being fulfilled but has no evidence for that at all, but it does make a good story.

When the whole bible is read, one finds that this god is abusive. This god supposedly, per Paul, picks and chooses who can accept it and who cannot, damning those for something they did not do (Romans 9). This is analogous to a father beating his child for an action they did not do and could not do. We also have Jesus reportedly stating that he uses parables to make sure some people can’t accept him. So this belies Ed’s claim that this god wants to “free anyone”.

As to the claim that JC came physically back in 32 CE, Christians don’t agree on this, nor is there any evidence of any of the supposed rather dramatic events around the cruxifiction at any time they do float as the “truth”, the major earthquake, the sky darkening, and the dead rising from their graves and wandering around Roman-occupied Jerusalem around the Passover. One would think that the Jews would have noticed this and the Romans would have had their hands full.

If we are to believe the bible, this god either intentionally let Satan into the garden or was too stupid to keep it out, away from two humans who knew absolutely nothing at all, including that it was supposedly good to obey this god. Then this god blames the humans for its failure, and casts them out of eden. After supposed thousands of years, this god repeatedly tries to fix its mistake, with a flood (no evidence), with commandments (no evidence of an exodus) and then finally it decides it needs a human sacrificed by torture to make itself happy. It depends on Satan to make this happen since no “betrayal” then no supposed salvation.

We end up with this “Father” in Revelation, where this entity forces humans to work with Satan to accomplish what this god wants to have happen (Revelation 17). Then after this god kills every non-christian on earth, this god intentionally allows Satan to corrupt the Christians that are left.

This is not a loving father, this is a lunatic.

As Ed says “Put what you believe out in the open and it will make you stronger.”  I wonder if he would agree with that now?  I posted a comment on the blog post and we’ll see if it shows up.