Month: June 2021

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Morality? Thank Eve

Alas, I can’t take credit for this. This is from my husband. “You opponent claims God put morality into the heart of every human.  According to their own book, God didn’t teach the difference between good and evil, the forbidden fruit was required, and off limits.  Without original sin there would be no knowledge of good and evil.  If you have morality, thank Eve.”

yep, he’s quite a bit smarter than me. I have the brain that is a great retrieval and storage unit. he has the brain that is the one that shows how things work.

This god wanted an amoral people per the myth. Things were supposedly, objectively, evil, but as long as humans were ignorant, things were fine per this god. Being naked was supposedly wrong, but A&E were nekkid with no problem.

Until that tree.

The idiot god got a people who knew what good and evil were. Seems like the people outstripped the god.

Most of us know that killing kids and committing and encouraging genocide is wrong.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – SSDD

If you are looking for anything new, there’s not much here.   Just one more Christian making the same claims, and trying fear and ignorance again. I have Isaac’s panties in a bunch.   Isaac’s post to try to scare people into agreeing with him is very typical of a Christian who is desperate for external validation by others telling him he’s right.  He’s not, but let’s see how.

“In the beginning there was nothing. And then there was something.

This is the essence of what atheism teaches. This something coming from nothing is what they call “the Big Bang.” Of course, their god, Charles Darwin, has led them into sacred knowledge of how life came about. Life simply evolved from non life, of course!

Their main teachings: evolution, nothing to everything, because science says, and my all-time favorite, “the lack of evidence is evidence enough.”

Let’s begin with their idea of the beginning of the world. They say that in the beginning there was a tiny ball of matter, which miraculously just existed for no reason. Obviously no one created it. That’s silly.

This ball of matter, which existed for no reason, exploded in what we call the Big Bang, again for no reason. There’s absolutely nothing in the universe that caused that ball of matter to explode. That’s insane.

Enter the holy trinity of atheism: Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and Steven Hawking. They push this idea that the substance that exploded from a ball of nothing evolved into something. This is how we get cats, dogs, birds, and more. Because nothing decided one day it wanted to exist.

Now that we are familiar with the religion of atheism, I am going to give you some heavy reasons why it is dangerous. But first, let me add a disclaimer. I love atheists. Yes! Even the hateful, bigoted, mocking atheists! I just find their beliefs to be… crazy. And a little ridiculous.”

Oh the ignorance. 

Atheism doesn’t teach “in the beginning there was nothing. And then there was something.”   It is a conclusion that there is no god or gods.  Now, the big bang theory says that it seems like there was nothing and then there was something, but even physicists aren’t quite sure how that occurred, other than it is possible for something to come from nothing and they have evidence for it. 

Charles Darwin is not a god and well, we’re atheists so we don’t believe in gods or consider humans gods.  Isaac must make strawmen to attack since he has nothing else.  We have evidence evolutionary theory works and it has grown more robust since Darwin proposed it as a hypothesis.  A theory, in a scientific context, is “A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge”  – Wikipedia.

“This ball of matter, which existed for no reason, exploded in what we call the Big Bang, again for no reason. There’s absolutely nothing in the universe that caused that ball of matter to explode. That’s insane.

Enter the holy trinity of atheism: Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and Steven Hawking. They push this idea that the substance that exploded from a ball of nothing evolved into something. This is how we get cats, dogs, birds, and more. Because nothing decided one day it wanted to exist.”

Isaac also demonstrates his ignorance on what the Big Bang Theory says.  It has nothing to do with a “ball of matter”.  The BBT is about a singularity which expanded, not about a ball of nothing, and not about a ball of matter, nor about any of these things being able to think.   Isaac then proceeds into the logical fallacy of an argument from personal ignorance. Creationists often find themselves attacking yet another strawman since if they attacked the actual theory, they’d have nothing. 
 
“Danger #1: Morality

This is a big one. I’m not saying you can’t be moral you’re an atheist. I’m saying you have no justification for being moral.

Morality was created by God and placed in the heart of every human being. The Law of God, or the moral standard, was written on your heart. That’s how you know rape is wrong, for example.

However, you can suppress that morality and do your own thing. Theists don’t usually suppress their morality. They live by the standard set by God. If you’re an atheist, you can still be a good person by following the morals set on your heart. However, being a good person doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.”

Isaac *is* saying that atheists aren’t moral, but he doesn’t want to be shown to be saying that since his claim is obviously wrong.  What follows is a common theist claim: the argument from morality.  Unfortunately for Isaac, Christians don’t agree on what morality their god wants. One can’t point a certain moral stance and say that it was from this god or any god.  Isaac’s claim that we know what this god wants in our “hearts” is baseless.  Not even Christians can show that, including Isaac.

“If you don’t believe in God, there’s no reason not to murder and rape. It’s not objectively wrong in that case. It’s only your opinion that it’s wrong. However, since God is real, your sense of justice is justifiable and your desire to be a good person is not just an explosion of random chemicals in your brain.”

There are plenty of reasons not to murder and rape, etc.  It doesn’t have to be objectively wrong.  It is my opinion, and most people’s opinion, that it *is* wrong, and civilization supports that and enforces that idea.  No god or Isaac needed. Paraphrasing Penn Teller, I have no want to murder or rape just because I could. 

Still no evidence that Isaac’s god exists.   

“Danger #2: Beyond Life

What if you’re wrong? If I’m wrong, I end up 6 feet under, dead. I just stop existing. If you’re wrong, there’s an eternity of condemnation and judgment waiting for you. An eternity of fire and brimstone.

Not to mention, if you’re wrong you could be leading others to hell with you. Including your friends, family, kids, etc.”

This is just Pascal’s Wager and poor Isaac’s sadistic fantasies.  Pascal’s Wager fails since there is no evidence any god’s exist and there is a cost to believing in one.  Isaac does try ever so hard here to use fear to convince people he is right.  He isn’t.

It’s always fun to also see a Christian who is sure his god is dumb enough to accept someone who is believing “just in case”. 

“Danger #3: Unnecessary hatred

This isn’t necessarily every atheist, but it’s enough. They spread hate. They seek to tear down theists and make us look stupid. This leads other atheists down the same path and before you know it, Christians are being hated, bullied, and harassed. This is how the persecution of the first century church began. Unnecessary hatred of Christians. This is why Nero ended up lighting his festivals with Christians, burning in cages.

Persecution still happens today. Check out the Middle East.”

Isaac has to pretend he is persecuted like so many Christians.  He also claims that some hate is unnecessary and here he is trying to claim that some people deserve hell and to die if they don’t agree with him. 

We don’t need any help making many theists look ignorant and bigoted.  They do just fine themselves.  

There is indeed real persecution of various groups in the world.  Christians in the US aren’t one of them.  And funny how this god does nothing at all to help the Christians who really are persecuted.  It’s rather like it doesn’t exist at all. 

“The Solution

The Gospel. You and I, and every human that ever existed, has sinned and broken God’s law. We are unworthy of grace. Because God is just, he must pass the appropriate sentence. And since his standard is perfection, we have been sentenced to death, which is eternal separation from God. Eternal separation from all things good.

But God is rich in mercy and quick to forgive those who fall on the mercy of Him. Because all have sinned, it is by grace that any of us go to heaven. Without grace, we’d all be damned to hell. That’s why Jesus came into the world, as a living sacrifice. And since he is the only one who has never sinned, his death and suffering paid for your transgressions. It paid for mine too. Like a judge in court, God has sentenced you. Jesus paid the penalty, or the fine. You were speeding and got a ticket, Jesus paid the ticket. Now you can go free.

“What must you do to be saved? “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.”

1. Believe in your heart that Jesus was risen from the dead.

2. Confess him as Lord over your life. Confess your sins.

3. Repent. Turn from your sin. A Christian cannot live a lifestyle of sin.

4. Receive the free gift of eternal life. The Holy Spirit will come on you, giving you faith and convicting you of sin.””

The problem for Isaac is which version of Christianity and the “gospel”.  Isaac doesn’t agree with his fellow Christians, so which version is the right “path”?   Christians don’t agree on what is a sin, so again, how does Isaac know his version is the only right one? 

Per the bible, this god is not just, or merciful or quick to forgive.  Genesis 3 shows this right off.   Could have had JC show up right then.  Didn’t. 

Isaac, like most Christians, is selling a cure to a sickness that doesn’t exist.  No “sin”, no “salvation” needed.  Isaac also doesn’t realize that one can’t just decide to believe in something with no evidence.   

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Yah didn’t think Ray Comfort could get any worse, did you?

So here we have Ray Comfort with his new writing “ugly baby blindness syndrome.” (gee it is part of a book) He’s sure those newborns and toddlers are evil. You don’t have to go out to “living waters” if you want so see ol’ Ray in his idiocy. I made a nice set of screen shots since I wouldn’t be surprised if this suddenly disappears. Shows you that any “pro-life” claims are false.

These people will stop at nothing to convince people they are sick so they can shill their “cure.

https://clubschadenfreude.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/ugly-baby-blindness-syndrome.pdf

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Not so polite dinner conversation – no god or Caroline needed

Well, Caroline is at it again (you can just search “caroline” to see other posts about her).  Let’s see what false claims she makes this time.  No God, no hope | a reasonable faith (caroline-smith.com)

First she claims a relative of a friend committed suicide.  People have a lot of reasons for committing suicide, some good some bad.  We also have Christians claiming that this god will never ever abandon someone or give them more than they can take.  Funny Christians commit suicide too, and all Christians can say amounts to blaming the victim; they really weren’t a Christian, God’s mysterious ways and other excuses  I’ve felt that bad before, and it takes a lot not to do it.  But I have my spouse, friends, family, cats, to think about. 

Caroline tries to claim a correlation between the rise of suicide and the rise of secularism.  There is none to be found, but she finds she must use this as a way to make people believe in her nonsense out of fear.  She’s “convinced” that there is a “Direct connection” and that is simply a false claim for her benefit, a lie.

Humans aren’t the result of “purposeless, mindless randomness and chance”.  Again, Caroline’s ignorance betrays her.  The universe isn’t random at all.  The laws of physics are quite enough to explain how we are here.  The why?  Well, no theist has shown a god exists so no reason to think that we are here to stroke off some god.  Death is indeed the final end of our existence, and we have meaning and we don’t need some “ultimate” one.  Caroline just needs a job for her god.

Hope is there for everyone, not just those who agree with Caroline.  She needs to pretend it isn’t again to cause fear and try to get people to give her the external validation she craves. 

Men and women have been rejecting lots of gods and have been rejecting those who claim that they know what such beings want.  Since Carole cannot show that her version of her god even exists, we do not have to agree that rejecting her aka her god is stupid or wise.  It is a moot point. 

The US is not suffering any more than it has in the past. Again, Christians like Caroline must gin up fear to try to convince people to join their cult.  She has had no problem with the lies that her conservative fellows have told, and forgets that conservative Christianity is the ultimate in cancel culture, doing their best to exterminate those who don’t agree with them.  They are the ones who want to create a theocracy where they and only they rule.  Christians can’t even agree among themselves so exactly how is “turning to God” supposed to work? 

Caroline finds anything she personally doesn’t like “depraved” and then tries to convince everyone a god agrees with her and only her.  Her god, if as described in the bible, isn’t worth anyone’s time and attention, other than to counter as it is quite the villain.  Caroline is upset that she is found to not be worth anyone’s time or attention. 

For something that is supposedly the “utmost significance in our personal lives”, this god does nothing at all.  No matter how a theist tries to claim that their god exists, they just can’t show it.  And her video is just more of the same lies.  Humans do have hope and meaning.   We have plenty of hope, we just need the will and help to make it happen.  No God, or Caroline, required. 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Christians sure like to pretend they are talking to atheists

or saying that the nonsense in Revelation will be happening “real soon now”

As above, Christians sure like to pretend they are talking to atheists lately, and of course, don’t allow comments on these ever so wonderful arguments they think they have. Wonder why? 😀

So, here we have Nick Watt, with his talk to an atheist.

And here is my response. Yeah, I’m bored so lots of posts.

So, here I am, an atheist.   Let’ me respond to your claims.

It’s always nice to see a Christian trying to poison the well right off.  I am interested in hearing your opinion, but I will not let baseless and false claims stand without addressing them.  If you consider that “arguing” then yep, you have nothing and only want a submissive audience.

I am need respectful of science and have reason to trust it.  I see no evidence of you respecting science.  You use the same failed arguments as those who are ignorant of it.   We can observe love, hate, jealousy etc and that is part of the scientific method.  We can also look at brain scans when people are experiencing such emotions and see the brain light up as we would expect.  Little can be technically proven except for mathematics, but we certainly can have lots of evidence to support our conclusions. 

Christians do love to pay word games since they have no evidence for their god.  They can’t prove it exists at all.  Since we know a good bit about how the brain works, nope, there is no reason to agree with the false claim that “there are elements of life and existence beyond the purview of science”.  There is no evidence of the supernatural, which is what you are desperate to show exists. 

Like so many Christians, you want to claim that if someone doesn’t agree with you, they are “dishonest”.  Unfortunately, you can’t show this at all.  Only science can discover truth so far, and religion and philosophy are baseless opinions.  And nope, the burden of showing your claims to be true is still on you.  You make the absurd claim, you get to show it is true.  I’m sure you feel the same about the claims of other theists you disagree with. 

People should indeed follow the evidence where it leads.  Theists do not since they have the presupposition that some god simply must exist.  Again, you still hve the burden of proof for your baseless claims.  I do not since doubt is the neutral stance.   And you have no evidence for them.

You claim that the universe is not pitilessly indifferent.   Show it.

The universe did seem to begin.  No evidence for any magical being starting it and most, if not all, religions make the same claim as you do.  Show your god is the creator. 

We also have no evidence for “fine-tuning”, since we  have no idea how far the parameters can vary to get the same thing.  All you have is being a puddle thinking how great it is that “something” made a hole in the ground “just right for it”.   We fit the universe, the universe does not fit us.  Your argument from personal ignorance is just more logical fallacy, that sine you don’t understand basic science, then your myth must be true. 

Reality shows no evidence for any god, much less your personal version of the Christian god.  The beginning of the book of Genesis makes vague claims that each Christain claims means something different.  Then we have two contradictory creation stories, and a god that fails to keep out satan or intentionally lets satan in, not warning its ignorant children.  And no evidence of this either “15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He himself is before all things, and in[i] him all things hold together.” 

Lots of theists claim that they think their personal beliefs make better sense of reality.  They are yet to show this to be the case. 

Christians also love to claim that we’ll have to die to be sure.  That’s not what your bible says.  I should be able to see every baptized believer in Christ as personal savior being able to do what their bible claims in Mark 16, John 14 and James 5.  Not a single one of you can.

You may be “captive to the word of God”, but again, every theist claims this, claims that cosmology, teology, etc agree with them, and personal belief doesn’t show that any gods exist.  There is no evidence at all that you’ve tried to “undo” the evidence for your god’s existence at all.  I’ve undone it with no problem at all.   

Then you offer Pascal’s Wager.  This assumes you have the right version of some god, and assumes you lose nothing.  If wrong, you lose time and resources and could risk pissing off the right god.  Christians don’t think very hard about their supposed great argument.

You do offer the wager to scare people and, like most religions, Chrsitianity depends on fear and ignorance.  Your sadistic fantasies about eternal torture for anyone who disagrees with you are childish. 

I also don’t have faith as you do, though Christians are desperate to pretend I do.  I can show quite easily your version of your god doesn’t exist.  None of the events it has supposedly caused can be shown to have happened.  Your god has quite a few details, and that being is no where to be found.  Chrsitians have an entire industry of apologetics to excuse their impotent god.

This is why Christians often try the “make my god vaguer” route to try to get away from the ignorant and primitive god of the bible.  It becomes a “ground of being” in Tillich’s apologetics. 

You then try an appeal to authority to try to pretend that if someone is smart and believes in your god, then there must be a god.  Hmmm, so since there are smart people who are Muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, then all of those gods must exist too, per your own argument.

Lee Strobel’s argument is the typical false claims of a theist and his personal ignorance is no reason to believe him.  We have evidence that indeed something can come from nothing, and again, no evidence a god is needed.  We are continuing to research how abiogenesis works and again, evidence it can and still no evidence for some god.  The universe is not random, and the laws of physics work quite nicely in ordering it with no god.  Chaos doesn’t provide information but a system that has energy in it does.  The rest, consciousness, etc are just more god of the gaps arguments, “we don’t’ understand it yet so GodDidIt.” 

I know quite a bit about Elvis.  He didn’t appear after he was dead either. 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – more fear and ignorance

And more lies from a  Christian contradicted.  As usual, this is from John Clayton over at “Does God Exist Today?”   he’s too afraid to allow comments.   

“We have frequently pointed out that a massive percentage of the pain and death people experience is directly related to their choices in life. If you don’t believe in God, what do you use for support when you hit the usual frustrations in life? My brother Jim bought into my parent’s atheistic beliefs. For much of his life, he lived as an atheist.”

John, and the mouse in his pocket, thinks that only his god is suitable for supporting through life’s frustrations.  He seems to also need to image that all non-christians turn ot the bottle.  Happily we don’t, and there are plenty of supports for us, family, friends, psychotherapy, etc. 

“When my youngest brother grew frustrated with the everyday struggles of life, alcohol became his tool for coping. That caused him to be unable to help others or find meaningful companionship. When he struggled with his normal sexual drives, he did not believe that marriage was the only way those feelings could be satisfied. My brother’s marriage failed because of his alcohol use, and it also seriously affected his relationship with his two sons.”

A pity he didn’t find his family of any help, since John tried to lie to him.  Brother was ill, not needing some imaginary god.

“My brother Jim was fired from his first teaching job because his alcohol use affected how he dealt with his students. One of his sons and I pleaded with him to realize what alcohol was doing to him, and gradually he began to move away from his addiction. He eventually got involved in Alcoholics Anonymous, started studying the Bible, and carried on extensive conversations with me about the existence of God.”

Alcohol addition is a disease, not a moral failing.  No god helps anyone, only humans do. 

“I finally convinced my brother Jim to go with me and a group of 50 Christians as we toured the Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion, and the Canyonlands. In addition to showing evidence that the Bible accurately describes Earth’s history as revealed in these places, we all engaged in singing hymns, praying for one another, and studying God’s Word. At the end of the trip, my brother admitted that he could not be an atheist anymore and that he saw the validity of Christianity.”

John chooses to lie more to his brother.  Alas, the Grand Canyon shows that the noah flood to be impossible since a massive flood never sets down discrete layers each sorted from coarse to fine within itself. 

“What do people in our culture do to relieve the pains that come in life? The use of drugs, including alcohol, has skyrocketed in my lifetime. Developing a relationship with God and working with those of like faith to establish a realistic approach to failure and frustration is not on the radar for much of our culture.”

John inadvertently admits that his god does nothing at all if use of drugs and alcohol has supposed “skyrocketed”.  Christians can’t quite decide if they want to pretend they are persecuted and losing people or if they want to pretend they are the majority. 

“As people reject God, ridiculing the Bible, and questioning its relevance to the struggles of life, the problems they experience have grown. The ultimate result of this is a massive increase in health issues related to drug use and an enormous rise in legal problems, including prison terms. More than half of the prisoners studying our correspondence courses are in prison because they abused drugs.”

Alas, the bible has no relevance to modern humans, only those who want to pretend some magical being agrees with them. Nope, the problems that non-christians haven’t grown.  John is just upset since Christianity is indeed losing members and churches are emptying.  Nothing in links shows that there is any correlation.  John tries to lie again.  And funny how many Christians are in prison.  Hardly any atheists at all.  Amazing how this god fails constantly, eh?

“Unfortunately, the use of alcohol and the destructive nature of my brother’s early atheistic beliefs had consequences on his relationships and health. He had marginal relationships with family, had few friends, and never found the kind of joy that Christians have when they follow God’s Word. In addition, his health had been compromised by his use of alcohol. On May 28, he died from all the damage alcohol had done in the past. Living the Christian way of life is essential to give the hope of eternal life and to give us the very best things that this life can bring. My brother Jim is a case history that demonstrates that fact in vivid, realistic terms.

— John N. Clayton © 2021”

Now, John finds he must try to scare people into his religion, as usual.  A religion that only has fear and ignorance to get people to believe isn’t much of one. Christians die all of the time.  It’s a pity they wasted their life on playing pretend.  John’s brother is dead.  That’s all.