Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – reducing a conservative Christian to incoherence

I think I may have broken our favorite unfunny Christian comedian, John Branyan:  “I would consider the stopping of the earth’s rotation as evidence you have a husband.”  Now, since no one ever claimed my spouse could stop the earth from rotating like the bible claims this god can stop the “sun” aka stop the earth from rotating, how can that be evidence of a 50+ year old Army veteran who is married to a 50+ year old me?  Of course, JB’s Amanda, has such a good time trying to claim I’m not human *but* she’ll be “forced” to vote for Trump because of me.  Such a pair of conservative Christians.

Poor JB, he has ended up here after thinking that it’s funny to be misogynistic just like Donald J. Trump, whom it seems to be living up to his claims of being an sexual abuser.  Oh well, that’s all he has, the “comedy” of a bully, who doesn’t like it at all when he’s called on it.  This is what conservative Christians are.

Tsk.

In other news, I have a momma cat and her kittens in my backyard.  The momma cat lets me pick her up and pet her. Now begins the process of taming the four kittens.  I discovered, again, that kittens have claws with monomolecular points on them.  🙂

 

 

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What the Boss Likes: claims, reasons and evidence

When I discuss religion here, it is usually about claims that theists make based on their respective religions. In most cases, those claims and religions get their details from what are deemed “holy books”.   These can be anything from how the universe came to be, to how one should eat, or how one should treat other people, etc.

Many theists want to start with a presupposition, that their holy book is true. What they forget is that to everyone else but a believer, it is a set of claims.

The Department of Communication at University of Pittsburgh has a great explanation of how claims, reasons and evidence works. Claims aren’t evidence of themselves like the theist presupposition requires.  They can be evidence that people did indeed believe such things, but they are not evidence that the events happened or the beings existed.

Addendum:  if you want to see me discuss this with a Christian, go to Joe’s blog here: https://trueandreasonable.co/2014/12/23/no-evidence/   At this moment, if my posts are still up, Joe is trying to use trial lawyer arguments for evidence for his god.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Well, we got the truth on what some Chrisitans really want -A theocracy and a war.

this god kills kids to show off

This morning I read The Friendly Atheist’s (aka Hemat Mehta) post on Patheos: “WA Lawmaker Attends Fundraiser for Liberty, a Proposed 51st State for Christians”   Of course these idiots think that they can just take other people’s land, up in the northwest US and that the US Constitution will allow this.   That won’t happen. Now, perhaps they can just go Alabama since Christians have been trying to make that a theocracy repeatedly. But they of course don’t want a coastal state since it’s hot, going to suffer from the climate change they deny, and will get nailed by hurricanes that they always claim come because of someone else’s “sin”.

We’ve seen nonsense like this before with the founder of Domino’s Pizza, Tom Monaghan, (one of the rabid Catholics with Opus Dei) wanting a Catholic town. He did get it, calle Ave Maria, Florida. Ah, only in Florida. The Wikipedia article says this about it “Ave Maria has a severe mosquito problem and has been sprayed more than 30 times via airplane with pesticides by the Collier Mosquito Control District in 2015 with organophosphates and pyrethroids,[21] making it the most sprayed area in Southwest Florida.” Seems they have their own version of the ten plagues.

For the war bit, I read an opinion piece in my local Sunday paper by Chistine Flowers. You’ve seen her name on this blog before because she is a Roman Catholic apologist, who does get upset when the truth is told about her ignorant religion. She’s at it again, with her op-ed piece “With new abortion legislation, America is on the right track”. This is what she claims right off “’ I’m here to dispense with the niceties of “can’t we all get along?” No, we can’t. The fight for the right to life is a war.”

Oh my, how silly. Ms. Flowers certainly wants a war, doesn’t she? Alas, she’s declaring war against the United States of America, the vast majority who doesn’t agree with her religious ignorance and demands for a theocracy. Poor Ms. Flowers, she has declared that unless she gets her way, no exceptions for abortion and her theocratic nonsense in place, she’ll become John Brown at Harper’s Ferry. Now, it seems either Ms. Flowers isn’t so pro life since she seems to be so ignorant about John Brown, because the truth of that particular story is that John Brown was an incompetent man who got people killed and failed at what he claimed he was trying to do.

Ms. Flowers is “relieved” that men are taking away health care choice from women who dare to disagree with Ms. Flowers. She has no problem with laws being made with ignorance of basic medicine, having no problem with nonsense like claims that ectopic pregnancies can be “fixed” as the claims in the Ohio legislation. She goes on to lie about Rep, Brian Sims being “aggressive” to anti-choice protestors (an “older white woman and three teenagers” as Ms. Flowers strangely specifies) when he said this “”Shame on you. What you’re doing here is disgusting. This is wrong. You have no business being out here,” and you can watch it here: https://www.pscp.tv/BrianSimsPA/1BRJjvOnrzwJw   Hmmm, compare this to accusations of murder and false information that Ms. Flowers advocates to be told to women who choose to get an abortion and the murders of people that anti-choice have been doing for years, bombing clinics, and putting up lists of doctors to be killed, etc. It seems that yet again, Ms Flowers gets offended to have the truth be shown about her religion and her attempts to control people because of it. It isn’t very flattering to be shown to be wanting the same sharia law that Ms. Flowers and other conservatives keep trying to lie about being used by Muslims in the United States.

Ms. Flowers goes on to laud that some of our conservative Christian legislators here in PA decided to show how wonderful they are by voting on a bill called The Downs Syndrome Protection Act, that they invented to try to claim that abortions were doing done left and right for fetus’s with downs syndrome. They of course forget to mention that Downs Syndome is not the media version of the happy child that is affected by a mild form. Down’s Syndrome can manifest many ways, and not all parents can handle children with this syndrome. She also forgets that the Republicans in the legislature of PA have consistently voted to cut help to mental health and medical support for those afflicted by such problems. It takes a lot of hypocrisy to try to use people with Down’s Syndrome to try to legislate your religion in to law.

Ms. Flowers is happy that Alabama has passed a bad on abortion that will force rape victims to keep the pregnancy forced on them by violence and a child to keep the pregnancy forced on them by a relative. “And that brings me to Wednesday when the Alabama legislature passed their own abortion ban which makes no exception for rape or incest.

Alabama State Sen. Clyde Chambliss, who sponsored the bill, characterized the legislation as a necessary government intervention to protect human rights. “When God creates the miracle of life inside a woman’s womb, it is not our place as human beings to extinguish that life,” Chambliss said.”

What a pathetic human being, Ms. Flowers is, for all of her claims of being “pro-life” but intentionally wanting to force a woman to risk her life because Ms. Flowers thinks her god wants it this way.

Despite her claims that the “pro-life” movement should be more than “pro-birth, Ms. Flowers doesn’t care as long as she gets her way, and she’s threatening to go to “war” for it. Hmmm, who else has said that? Ah yes, the fighters who want an Islamic Caliphate, to control people by their hate-filled and ignorant religion who murdered people who didn’t agree with them. Well, Christine, the folks who are in ISIS want to tell you how much they approve of you. Just put in a burka and you’ll be all set.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation– a festive blend of opinions on food, politics, religion….

Here’s a post about random things. Opinions about food, religion, politics etc are freely mixed.

I’ve a new follower “God’s Geological and Math Signs”. Oh my, this person’s website is utterly hilarious. For a religion that is supposedly followed by faith and no evidence needed (as told to me repeatedly by various Christians), this individual certainly is desperate for evidence that s/he is right. As an actual geologist, I find this utterly ridiculous. Perhaps only the classic nonsense by self-claimed prophets and liars like Falwell, Robertson, Graham are more pathetic. This poor individual claims that Alpha Centauri is the “same size” as our sun, which is it not, and seems to have no idea it is a multi star system. He also seems to think that it’s amazing that he can draw crosses all over the place. Note the Holy Cross Chile pepper So many Christians are walking talking examples of the Dunning Kruger effect. This person is also one of those who seems to think that all other religious believer “really” agree with him, by insisting that all religions are about his god (ignoring his bible as convenient, including Exodus 12:12)

Otto’s Pub & Brewery has a great new Cherry Wheat beer. It’s so much better than the Sam Adam’s version, with a good cherry nose and a color tending toward red. We stop when we can on our way back from visiting relatives. I got the gyro (about the size of two) and my spouse got the braised beef sandwich. The food is always fabulous there.

The nonsense in American politics is pretty much all right now about the Mueller report. We have a AG who is intentionally lying to Congress which is pathetic since we now have most of the report and can read it, and it seems we’ll shortly have Mueller testifying. We also have a orange moron who is desperate to hide his financials. Hmmm, now he has said that only the guilty hide things. I’m guessing he’s hiding money laundering and/or showing he doesn’t have the money he claims, and banks will never deal with him again after his presidency. Mueller found that Trump didn’t collude; but indicted how many of his minions for other crimes found, and we still have the Trumpies never reporting to the FBI that they were approached by the Russians and Trump who exhorted the Russians to attack the US’s IT systems. I’m personally supporting Elizabeth Warren, who is one of the democratic candidates.

I’ve made another batch of beer. It’s “Don’t Be Mean to People – a Golden Rule Saison” from Northern Brewer. It was created in support of LBGT folks in North Carolina when their state gov’t decided to get involved in people’s bathroom choice. I had the kit sitting around and hadn’t realized how long. The malt powder became large blocks of hard malt. I melted them and things seem to be proceeding apace. Should be bottling in a week or so. They don’t have it in stock anymore.

That’s it. Have a nice weekend!

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Moving the goalposts, prayer as a weapon, ignoring questions and the usual theist nonsense

Well, I finally have some time to write a blog post. Between work, and painting, and simply being disgusted with the world, I put this off.

I did do a couple of craft shows with my alcohol ink paintings and I sold one thing on Etsy. Made back my entrance fee and then some, so I’m happy about that. I decided to start trying to sell my art since it was starting to overrun the house.

Now, back to my favorite topic, Christians behaving badly.

Here in PA, we had a particularly virulent TrueChristian™ make a scene when Rep. Borowicz tried her best to convince her god that it wasn’t her fault that the PA voters elected a woman who happens to be Muslim to the state legislature.   She gave the opening prayer at the legislature and was a wonderfully bigoted twit, ignoring her bible when it says don’t pray on street corners. She claims she prays like this “all of the time”. Sure, dear, I have no problem that you are a jackass whenever you do much of anything.

I have also been kibitzing on various blogs where a theist, usually a Christian, is making false and/or baseless claims about atheists or the universe in general. When the theist responds to a post, it’s amazing how quickly they end up attacking their fellow Christians, when I point out how much they don’t agree. For a religion of supposedly “billions”, they show quite definitely that Christianity isn’t one religion but many very small ones. I had one fellow “Triggerman” insist that Baptists aren’t Christians by definition “A Christian can be a Baptist, just like a Christian can be a Methodist, or a Presbyterian or a Catholic or even a Pentecostal or a non-denom. However, just being a Baptist, etc, doesn’t make anyone a Christian.”, that Catholics aren’t Christians at all and that Christians who don’t agree with his version are “Free to think whatever they want and impose all of the FALSE standards they want to.” Tsk. I asked poor TM how does his god choose who to damn and who to allow to believe in this god if not randomly. It’s always fun to watch them insist that they do know but when it comes to saying how, there’s not an answer to be had except an attempt to redefine the word “random”.

A friend has a new website up with the more vile words of a Christian I’ve also crossed swords with, John Branyan. You can find it here. It is holding Christians accountable for their claims and beliefs.

I also found Caroline again, a Christian who has occasionally shown up (just search “caroline” in the search box in the upper right to see all of the instances) on this blog, making her usual false claims about morality and how great her morality is. She is a great example of someone using about ever poor apologist bit of nonsense in her arguments. There are no comments allows on her blog if you don’t agree with her (though she has let me post in the past), but I did happen to find her on facebook. Again, it ended up with her not answering some very basic questions: “why is objective morality “better” than subjective morality” and “why is stealing from someone wrong?”. My comments still there if you are interested (you’ll see posts from Jane R., that’s me). I find it very funny that she calls herself “friendlier theist” there. This comes from a theist who said this to me “Enjoy your Godless life…while you can.” She claimed to be arguing just for “theism” and not Christianity.

This attempt to move goalposts isn’t a new thing at all. It’s nothing new that Christians claim that those other Christians aren’t really Christians at all. There is not one new bit of evidence to support the existence of any of the billions of versions of the Christian god nor for any other god. It’s the same old arguments. The most recent one might be the argument from complexity, and that’s only because we could start to see that complexity. The rest, the early church fathers would recognize.

With Easter coming up, a lunar and fertility holiday that moves all around thanks to other religion’s beliefs, we see again that it’s been 2000+ years and still nothing has changed. No miracles, no baptized believers in JC as savior doing miracles as promised, no elders of the church doing miracles, no JC descending from the clouds in his end times return. Just lots of failed stories and baseless claims. And no god serving as back up to a lot of incompetent apologists. People ask, why do I bother? Well, I don’t like liars and I don’t like people who think it’s their right to harm people in trying to take away their ability to make an informed decision.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Anti-Israel isn’t anti-Semitic

While I’m still dealing with influenza (I always forget just how horrible it makes you feel (and to see why you do feel horrible see here)) , I thought I’d do a post about the current religious nonsense here in the US.

We have conservative Christians having a tizzy that a US representative criticizes the country of Israel. They lie, of course, and try to claim being anti-Israel is being anti-Semitic. That the government of Israel continues to flirt with acting exactly like their historical persecutors, makes it a target for just criticism. When these same conservatives have no problem with worshipping a orange nitwit who says that wannabee nazis are “fine people” and the vice president is of a strain of Christianity that desperately wants the events in Revelation to come true and needs the state of Israel to be on the stage to be destroyed, this concern about anti-Semitism is nothing but poorly hidden hypocrisy.

Then we have Trump signing bibles for conservative Christians. It’s rather silly to see them acting like teens at a rock concert wanting some bit of trash signed by someone they idolize. Other presidents have signed bibles, at the request of families for a certain purpose, but it does seem to be an unusual practice, noted by a Christian professor from near where I live. This article notes the Washington Post article, which in turn notes that Trump does love to quote bible verses when convenient, and that “two Corinthians” verse is quite an interesting one, especially in context:

Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stone tablets, came in glory so that the people of Israel could not gaze at Moses’ face because of the glory of his face, a glory now set aside, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit come in glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, much more does the ministry of justification abound in glory! 10 Indeed, what once had glory has lost its glory because of the greater glory; 11 for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!

12 Since, then, we have such a hope, we act with great boldness, 13 not like Moses, who put a veil over his face to keep the people of Israel from gazing at the end of the glory that[c] was being set aside. 14 But their minds were hardened. Indeed, to this very day, when they hear the reading of the old covenant, that same veil is still there, since only in Christ is it set aside. 15 Indeed, to this very day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their minds; 16 but when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.”

Except for the Book of Hebrews itself, one can’t find much more of an anti-Jewish screed in the bible. Paul is still the persecutor, he just changed his colors and his horse. And that is what these ever so concerned Christians want to have Trump sign and cite. What I discovered that I didn’t know before is that some Muslims find that Paul to be a corruptor of JC’s word too. What a mess of imaginary claims, who hates who for what reason and all of it nonsense.

Of course, it’s these conservative Christians who insist that it was a “miracle” they *personally* weren’t killed (evidently 23 deaths were their god’s will) and how it’s just great that they get special attention from FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) for help but who cheered when that jackass Trump threatened the help received by people they don’t agree with in California.

What a foul tangle human invention makes to validate ignorance and selfish nonsense.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation: More TrueChristians™ acting like idiots, and a painting

This has been a week for me running into all sorts of TrueChristians™.   They certainly do run the gamut of being just thoroughly unpleasant people.

I frequently kibbitz on the Washington Post facebook page (and at the WaPo site itself).   I also comment on ThinkProgress’s facebook page. I’m Jane Ravenswood there, an old email address that is a remnant of my interest in steampunk. On the WaPo’s thread about Trumpty Dumpty and Pence giving speeches at the “March for Life” aka theocrats who desperately want to force their beliefs on others because they need external validation, a lovely TrueChristian™ named Wayne Wheeler decided to be a liar and utterly fail at sarcasm. This what Wayne said “my wife is pregnant, we dont have enough money to get her an abortion, can you help us out? We don’t feel it is the tax payers responsibility, so we are asking you for the money. You seem so kind and willing to help.” Now poor Wayne doesn’t seem to realize that anyone can look at his facebook page and see that it’s rather unlikely that an abortion is needed at all, and that he is a Trumpie minion. If this request was true, I would indeed help someone out, expecting a lot of evidence before I did so, of course.   Unsurprisingly, Wayne vanished after his bluff was called. You just can’t trust a TrueChristian™ these days. Tsk.

On the ThinkProgress’s page, they had a very interesting article about how homeschooling may not be as innocent as people, especially TrueChristians™ claim. I posted “the conservative Christian is one of the most dangerous things to the US. They want a theocracy and are willing to crawl into bed with anyone to get power.” Of course, there are conservative Christians on that page, who were terribly indignant that I said this, with one Michelle Godown (yep, that’s her last name, must have been hell in high school for her) saying “Yes. The ones who want more personal freedom and liberty, less government, less power, and simply to be left alone and leave others alone are the ones who want a theocracy. Do you even know how paranoid and ridiculous you sound?”

The hypocrisy and outright lying in this TrueChristian™ quote is amazing. So, I asked her, just how does this work when TrueChristians™ spend millions on getting their religious beliefs legislated into law. No answer. Then more TrueChristians™ decided to pop up, and whine about what I said (it was rather amusing when they did their best to use the laughing emoji on facebook to evidently try to ridicule me, when most others use that emoji to show they appreciate the humor in something). I asked them the same question.

Can you guess what their response was to that question?

Yep, crickets; not one single answer from at least a half dozen. The poor TrueChristians™ vanish faster in the light of the truth than vampires do in the sunshine.

I also asked the Living Waters people how many children they’ve adopted since they are so against abortion. I got this back “This is an attack on the person instead of the argument. Whether someone adopts or not, does not change the fact that abortion is the murder of an unborn child. It’s no different than saying unless I am willing to marry my neighbor’s wife, I cannot prevent her husband from beating her; unless I am willing to adopt my neighbor’s daughter, I cannot prevent her mother from abusing her; unless I am willing to hire ex-slaves for my business, I cannot say that the slave-owner should not own slaves.May God open your eyes to the horror that is abortion.”

They are certainly desperate not to walk the walk that they want to force on everyone else. I did response to this nonsense by asking them how their supposed concern with children works with their consistent voting for politician who cut help for children and families. They don’t even try.  I did ask this person what she thought of this god opening my eyes to the murder of children in the bible.  No response yet.

Finally, we got to see pathetic young men in Trump hats (aka the new white hood) who are no more than privileged thugs, trying to be impressive whilst verbally attacking a Native American veteran. The poor little fellows were bothering what appear to be African-American believers in some variant of Judaism/Christianity, and the member of the Omaha tribe tried to restore some order. Of course, they didn’t like that, ran away and then returned with more brats. Now, it seem one of their mothers is now blaming their behavior on “black muslims”. No surprise this nonsense starts at home and at church since these idiots are from a Catholic school. This when punching a Nazi, or giving one a good spanking, is needed.

This is why it is so important to stand up against such idiocy.

On a much lighter note, I’m again painting. I wanted to see if Bob Ross’s techniques could transfer to alcohol inks. I think I did pretty well in making a mountain. No “happy little trees” though. I call this “On a Terraforming World”.  That’s Steinlen’s Gaudeamus Cat behind the canvas.

On a Terraforming World