As is typical on HillFaith, a conservative christian website that attempts to get its particular version of Christianity into US government, Mark Tapscott makes false claims about what the bible actually says and has a fellow christian making similar claims. There isn’t anything new here in this post, just another review of how the gospels make contradictory claims for the same scene, this one being what happened after the supposed resurrection. (memes at the end).
In this post on HillFaith, it is claimed that Jesus isn’t misogynistic since he didn’t let Mary touch him after the resurrection but allowed Thomas to do so.
of course, my comment won’t be allowed through, but the problem with jesus not allowing mary to touch him isn’t only a problem with men vs women, but that the gospels don’t agree if Mary touched jesus or not. Curious how the gospel of “john” says she was told not to touch him and in the gospel of “Matthew” it says they did touch him. The scene at the tomb is quite a mess in all of the gospels since completely contradictory things happen in the same time period. Consider the following:
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.*9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.* (Matthew 28)
“2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.*6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.*7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid. “ Mark 16
“2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:*5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.8 And they remembered his words,9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.” Luke 24
“the first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the LORD out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him.14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.” John 20
Per the article: “Lyons points out that the “Doubting Thomas” was not invited by Jesus to touch Him “later that evening” on the day Mary Magdalene first saw Him. Just a few verses after John 20:17, he said at 20:26 that it was “after eight days” when the disciples gathered, Jesus appeared to them inside their gathering place and invited Thomas to touch His wounds.”
Why would this matter? We have this in John:
“17 Jesus said to her, ‘Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’ 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, ‘I have seen the Lord’; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
19 When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’
24 But Thomas (who was called the Twin[c]), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, ‘We have seen the Lord.’ But he said to them, ‘Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe.’
26 A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ 27 Then he said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.’ 28 Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ 29 Jesus said to him, ‘Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe.’”
Then John goes onto have the scene with the fish, the scene with peter, and no mention of any ascension, plus the nonsense that jesus did so many things wandering around after he was dead that not all the books in the world could contain the stories of them. It’s no surprise a Christian chooses to lie.
and here’s what Luke says: which is not what John says:
“13 Now on that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[f] from Jerusalem, 14 and talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15 While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself came near and went with them, 16 but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 And he said to them, ‘What are you discussing with each other while you walk along?’ They stood still, looking sad.[g] 18 Then one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answered him, ‘Are you the only stranger in Jerusalem who does not know the things that have taken place there in these days?’ 19 He asked them, ‘What things?’ They replied, ‘The things about Jesus of Nazareth,[h] who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how our chief priests and leaders handed him over to be condemned to death and crucified him. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel.[i] Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things took place. 22 Moreover, some women of our group astounded us. They were at the tomb early this morning, 23 and when they did not find his body there, they came back and told us that they had indeed seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. 24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but they did not see him.’ 25 Then he said to them, ‘Oh, how foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have declared! 26 Was it not necessary that the Messiah[j] should suffer these things and then enter into his glory?’ 27 Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures.
28 As they came near the village to which they were going, he walked ahead as if he were going on. 29 But they urged him strongly, saying, ‘Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over.’ So he went in to stay with them. 30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him; and he vanished from their sight. 32 They said to each other, ‘Were not our hearts burning within us[k] while he was talking to us on the road, while he was opening the scriptures to us?’ 33 That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem; and they found the eleven and their companions gathered together. 34 They were saying, ‘The Lord has risen indeed, and he has appeared to Simon!’ 35 Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he had been made known to them in the breaking of the bread.
36 While they were talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’[l] 37 They were startled and terrified, and thought that they were seeing a ghost. 38 He said to them, ‘Why are you frightened, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.’ 40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.[m] 41 While in their joy they were disbelieving and still wondering, he said to them, ‘Have you anything here to eat?’ 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate in their presence.
44 Then he said to them, ‘These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.’ 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, 46 and he said to them, ‘Thus it is written, that the Messiah[n] is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses[o] of these things. 49 And see, I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.’
50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and, lifting up his hands, he blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them and was carried up into heaven.[p] 52 And they worshipped him, and[q] returned to Jerusalem with great joy; 53 and they were continually in the temple blessing God.”
Curious how the apostles were terrified of being killed in John and are going to the temple where Caiaphas was in Luke.
The gospel of Mark of course ends with the women being too afraid to talk about what happened in the garden. Of course there are other endings added, which also contradict the other ones, and promise that Christians can drink poison, heal people etc.
and finally Matthew has yet more contradictory claims “16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
it is no secret that these books were written and not intended to be together. That’s why they make little sense, and end up having christians trying to fit all of this into one story, which would go well with the benny hill soundtrack.
and yes there are scantily clad women in this since it’s benny hill:
Club Schadenfreude 
So Jesus and Mary broke up after he died? And he decided to keep it that way? Good grief.
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evidently. this cult just gets weirder and weirder
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Can anyone here tell me where in the Bible it says that Jesus was ever dating Mary? Or where he allegedly broke up with her? I just finished the Gospels and didn’t find that anywhere….
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MJ, where did anyone say that here? what are you on about?
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nice to see your responses, MJ.
“Bet, dude, bet. You can make a blog post about me, and I’ll read it and respond on my own blog on tanukicorner.com, though I know that it may be fruitless to you since you seem to have been hurt by Christianity in the past, are bitter about it, and have made up your mind to be an atheist. I’m sorry about whatever may have happened to you in the past and hope you can find true joy in happiness somewhere.
And before you say that you’re not angry, maybe re-read your comments. Maybe it’s just me, but the entire time you sound very smug and condescending as you passionately rant about what you believe is wrong with my faith.”
yet more lies. Poor MJ, she has to convince herself that I’m unhappy, so she can feel better.
“(And BTW, I don’t deny that there are people who deny Christianity on philosophical bases, not just for emotional reasons. One of Mr. Duritz’s reasons as he pointed out in his post is based on logic. I was merely pointing out how in your previous comment you claim to not be angry, and yet come off as very defensive and condescending. I may be high school student and much younger than you but calling someone “dear” in a very patronizing manner during an intellectual debate or argument instead of treating your opponent with the equal respect that they have given you is not a good way to win people to your argument. It may actually make your opponent look better because they will seem cooler, more collected, and more confident in their assertions.)”
and yet more lies. Not a great start for a high school student. No evidence for any of your rather silly claims. I don’t treat liars as my equals nor do I treat apologists for gods who commit genocide, support slavery and kill people for things they didn’t do as equals.
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You may not agree with my beliefs, but treating me like I’m a toddler and being openly snide when referring to me to your fans and when talking to me while constantly mud slinging is what people with no argument do because they know they have no argument. It’s a fallacy, not a good argument. Not a great start for an adult who has graduated and parades herself around as “intelligent”.
But don’t worry. I’m doing an entire series responding to my haters and will respond to your post as soon as possible. Until then, I’ll stop responding to you, since, in the words of Mark Twain: “Don’t argue with stupid people. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
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You act like a toddler with your baseless and often false claims, MJ. You have yet to show anything you’ve claimed about your religion to be true.
Nice of you to show just how hypocritical you are, MJ. Really, more lies about me? You do recall the whole “do not bear false witness” thing right?
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a christian who “just finished the gospels”? how odd.
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I’ve been on a journey to discover my faith since 2021, reading and listening to apologetics lessons, church sermons, readings from Scripture, etc. This year has been the first year where I’ve read the Gospels and the other books of the NT by myself and I must say, they line up perfectly with what I’ve learned. It’s not that odd.
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It is odd but it is nothing new since christains often have no idea what their bible actually says, and depend on others to tell them, neatly avoiding the ignorance and hate in there. Curious how the gospels don’t line up perfectly, with each contradicting the others. I do hope you’ll read the entire thing since you’ll soon seen how it isn’t quite what you think it is, with paul contradicting jesus, and the OT shows quite a vicious and ignorant god, one that shows back up in Revelation, where this god works with satan after it kills all the non-christians.
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again, what are you nattering on about here: “Can anyone here tell me where in the Bible it says that Jesus was ever dating Mary? Or where he allegedly broke up with her? I just finished the Gospels and didn’t find that anywhere….”
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Exactly what I said. Where is that? Where’s the evidence?
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why are you asking me and my fellow atheists? Nothing in your bible has anything about a romantic entanglement between your imaginary friend and his imaginary female follower. Quite a few christians have invented that and so have quite a few conspiracy theorists and fiction authors. I’ve read a few of those stories because I always love a good silly conspiracy.
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I’ve been looking at your blog, MJ. You, like so many other christians, attack other christians and yet your own version has nothing to support it.
“Since then, our stay at The Church of the Holy Cowpoke has been longer than any other church we’ve been to. We’ve been there for a little over a year now and don’t plan on leaving. While the leadership and my family don’t agree on everything, they teach straight out of the Bible and we agree on the same basic beliefs. They are willing to talk about differences and have provided the type of welcoming community that I haven’t seen anywhere else.
Finally, this leads me to the question of “Why did you still try?” After all, in the title of this post, I said the modern church is crap. While I still think that for the most part the church is a joke with what I believe to be 99% of them being garbage, there are still plenty of diamonds out there that you just need to look for. Humans are very social animals and the Bible calls Christians to seek fellowship with other Christians since “Iron sharpens iron”. In our search for a church, that was one of the things we were looking for. We were looking for fellow Christians to be part of a community with and though it took a long time to find that, we found it. If you have been in crappy churches before and feel like it’s not worth it, I understand that sentiment. But don’t give up.”
and this is just precious too “Now, I’m not saying that all Leftists are demons…but they sure do act like them.” Unfortunately, MJ, the problems that christians have are of their own devising. Curious how your god simply is impotent when it comes to us puny humans.
nice bearing of false witness from a christian. It’s notable that the Screwtape letters are from Lewis, who advocated to lie to potential christian converts since, well, let me let him say it:
“And secondly, I think we must admit that the discussion of these disputed points has no tendency at all to bring an outsider into the Christian fold. So long as we write and talk about them we are much more likely to deter him from entering any Christian communion than to draw him into our own. Our divisions should never be discussed except in the
presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is His only Son.” preface, Mere Christianity
Intentionally hiding information so people can’t make informed decisions is called lying by omission.
The screwtape letters do get one thing quite right, christians often go from church to church since they want one that agrees them, and end up a church of one, since they thing they are ever so much more pure than the rest.
“surely you know that if a man can’t be cured of churchgoing, the next best thing is to send him all over the neighbourhood looking for the church that “suits” him until he becomes a taster or connoisseur of churches. ” Screwtape Letters, letter 16
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Firstly, let me just say that when I “attack other Christians”, what I’m doing is simply pointing out where they are going wrong. In the churches that I left, there were some admittedly good points of teaching there. However, it was what they were doing behind the scenes such as teaming up with an organization that taught mystical beliefs from a sect of Islam called Sufism and were mixing that with Christianity (which goes against the Biblical command that “You will have no other gods before me.” (Ex 20:3, Deut. 5:7) not to mention the commands against practicing mysticism (Deut. 18: 10-12, Leviticus 19:31, Isaiah 8:19), using books that teach mysticism and letting those influence their sermons, gaslighting the congregation and throwing me and my family under the bus for voicing concerns about aberrant teaching or practices, etc. that lead us to make the hard decision to leave, a decision that I am happy with now. It’s okay for a Christian to look for a good, Bible-teaching church that’s not screwing up the essentials. What Lewis was talking about in The Screwtape Letters was the problem of church goers being way too picky about what they want from the church. Complaints like “It’s not entertaining enough,” “They don’t have good coffee,” “The music wasn’t great,” etc. are petty issues that people find in the church that make them move on to the next one.
You may have also noticed my three-part series where I talk about the street evangelist Bryce Crawford and may also be wondering why I would write a three-part series debunking him if I’m a Christian. I have nothing against Bryce personally and think that he asks good questions, however I seriously disagree with what he’s doing teaming up with people who have been shown time and time again to be grifters who take the Bible out of context for money. The Bible warns consistently of false teachers (Matt. 7:15, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:1-2) and encourages having discernment in the faith and helping others practice that discernment (1 Thess. 5:21-22, Phil. 1:9-10, Hebrews 5:14, Prov. 27:17) which is incredibly important in a time where not even all pastors can be considered reliable sources of teaching.
The purpose of writing those types of blog posts where I talk about the church, other Christians, or whatever is not to attack the person or the church personally but is rather to inform people of what’s out there and to get them to think. When I read your comment and you included that quote from the preface of Mere Christianity, I have to say that I highly disagree with Lewis on that as well. Though I have enjoyed several of his books and he makes some good points, I do disagree with him on some of his theology and practices. Lewis was a man, not God. He was capable of making statements about Christianity that are – to put it frankly – crap. In the case about lying to bring people to Christianity, I think that that’s wrong. I think more people should be upfront about what it means to be a Christian and the problems in the church. If that offends them, okay, that’s fine. Thanks for listening. If it encourages them to take a second look at the church and maybe do some more digging into the faith, even better. A Christian’s job isn’t to convert every single person on the planet. My job as a Christian is simply to live my life in a way that pleases God and to make a good case for the faith. If reading my blog makes someone convert, that’s awesome, but ultimately, it’s in God’s power, not mine.
And lastly, that quote about Leftists acting like demons was a joke, a quip about their policies and how they act in public and at protests. It was fully meant as a joke and nothing more. Stop getting your panties in a bunch over it.
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Yes, every Christian is telling the other Christians they are wrong, and yet you can’t show you have the right version, just like them. You all make the same baseless claim.
You claim mixing religions is wrong. Other Christians don’t, believing all religions may have some truth. Christians also can’t agree on what parts of the old testament to follow, picking and choosing what they want. Your god also says to kill adulterers and disobedient children, so why aren’t you doing that?
Yep, just like you, those other Christians thought you were wrong, so your indignance about being attacked is rather amusing. Every christain claims that they have the one right bible-believing church and the right “essentials”, and again, MJ, not one of you can show that yours is any better than the next. It’s also fun hat you try to make false claims about Lewis and the Screwtape letters. You are doing exactly what he described. He didn’t mention anything about music, coffee or entertainment. You added that to make a false claim.
That you Christians “debunk” each other is nothing new. Not one of you had any truth to begin with. Christians each claim “context” and again, they still fail. Not one of you can show that they aren’t a “false teacher”. Not one christian’s “discernment” is any better than the next.
ROFL. It is to attack them since you claim they are wrong, with no evidence they are, and no evidence yours is any better. Of course, you disagree with Lewis, you disagree with so many other Christians. Not one of you can show that you got any of this nonsense from some “god”.
Curious how your jesus said your job was to convert everyone. That’s the “great commission” is: “18 And Jesus came and said to them, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.’” Matthew 28
Funny how wannabee bullies try to make their false claims about others are “just jokes” when they get called on them. Claimingn people are demons isn’t a joke since your cult harms people they claim are “demons” Do show how any “leftists” (which you seem to know nothing about), act like demons and how their policies are like demons. And curiously you have none of these supposed “studies”.
and here you have yet more lies “In California, teachers were claiming that if they aren’t allowed to teach LGBTQ+ to your kids (i.e if they aren’t allowed to groom/prey on your children) then your kids won’t be able to learn math. In several other states, math has been deemed racist, grading standards have been lowered because grades are racist, and several universities will accept your application because you have dark skin, not because you did anything to deserve it. Heck, where I live, barely anyone can read at grade level. A recent survey showed that only 13% of 8th graders could understand history well; only 1% of 8th graders were proficient in history.”
Funny how no one has said that, and you choose to lie again, repeating the usual ignorant racist lies about what schools have done and what teachers are. Or is this just another “joke”?
“18 Like a maniac who shoots deadly firebrands and arrows,9 so is one who deceives a neighbour and says, ‘I am only joking!’” Proverbs 26
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But let me ask you a question: What made you start hating on Christianity? What made you leave? You’re the first non-Christian I’ve debated to who seems to have read the Bible and knows the apologetics for it, so I’m quite interested to hear your story.
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The bible make ignorant and false claims and supports horrific things, like genocide, killing people for things they didn’t do and slavery. It preaches hate and ignorance. Guess how I found that out? Yep, I read the bible for myself. When I was losing my faith, I figured I’d go to the horse’s mouth as it were and prayed to god for help understanding the bible since surely it wasn’t that horrible. No god showed up, which also showed that all of the promises by this god per the bible were also false.
I also got to see just how christians disagree on the most basic things and attack each other, all with no evidence that their nonsense was true. I grew up in a very anti-catholic area. When I realized they were all making stuff up and lying about what the bible contained, it was pretty clear what was going on.
I’m quite well read in the religions of other cultures, including their myths. Christianity is nothing special. And even if it were, being unique makes nothing true.
and before you claim that I only show how christianity fails, I’ve done the same for islam, judaism, etc. all make false claims, all trade in ignorance and hate.
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Interesting. I too have been there to some extent and for a while it was the disagreements between Christians that kept me skeptical, though it eventually sunk in that you cannot base your thoughts on God off of the actions of flawed people. Just like how I don’t judge all atheists/nihilists based off of how you treat me.
Did you have anyone to help you read the Bible or guide you in your faith? It seems like you had a lot of questions that perhaps were never answered, which is a big reason why many people deconstruct.
I would also like to point out that your claim that Christianity is nothing special is false, even if you believe it being unique makes nothing in it true. Christianity is the only religion in the world to have spread organically, is the only one where its founder encouraged His followers to love their neighbor, is the only one that teaches a faith-based salvation while other religions teach a works-based salvation, is the only one where a virgin gave birth (every woman in other religions around the world was not a virgin when she gave birth), is the only one to say that God came down to earth as fully man and fully God, etc.
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The only thing you can base the perception of the christian god on *is* by its followers, since it doesn’t exist and does nothing. Christians, again, can’t agree on what this god wants, so you are all making up what you want. I treat you as a christian, MJ, someone who has made up her god in her image and who has sadistic fantasies about those who dare disagree with her.
Why would i need someone to “help” me read the bible, MJ? Doesn’t your god help? I asked this god questions since christians can’t agree on what nonsense they want to tell me, and unsurprisingly, this god has nothing to say. Why does your god need these “flawed” people to make itself clear? You seem to have a problem, you try to first tell me that I can’t base my opinoins of christianity from humans and then you tell me to listen to humans.
Curious how you can’t show that any form of christianity is special or true. It has nothing unique in it, since other religions have sacrifice, punishment of people, gods making things, etc. Christanity spread no more or less “organically” than any other religion, but nice false claim. What does “organicically” even mean here, MJ? Telling people to care about those in their circle isn’t new. Belief equaling getting to the “right” afterlife isn’t new. Your religion also says works are required, but as we both know, your religion can’t agree on what saves someone or who get saved. Faith? Grace? Works? Childbirth (per paul for women)?
no virgin in your religion, just bad translations and incompetent authors with no evidence for their claims. Virgin births are nothing new. Attis was a god whose mother Nana was a virgin. Plato supposedly had a virgin mother ““For some have thought fit…to relate as a possible thing that Plato was the son of Amphictione, Ariston being prevented from having marital intercourse with his wife until she had given birth to him with whom she was pregnant by Apollo,” Against Celsus 37”
the goddess hera keeps regaining her virginity, so all of her children are from a virgin “In ancient Greek religion, Kanathos (Greek: Κάναθος) in the Argolid was the spring at Nauplia,[1] where Hera annually renewed her virginity. There, Pausanias noted,[2] was “a spring called Kanathos where, so say the Argives, Hera bathes every year and, by so doing, becomes a maiden; it is this story which is of the secrets connected with the rites which they perform to Hera.” ” wikipedia
Quetzalcoatl was born of a virgin who swallowed a piece of jade “Quetzalcoatl was placed in her belly when she swallowed a piece of jade.” – Codex Chimalpopoca
again, anything unique still doesn’t make Christianity’s claims true. And since not you or any other self-professed christian can do what jesus promises, you have no evidence your bible’s claims are true.
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MJ, tell me what you think good evidence for your religion’s claims are.
have you read any counter apologetics? They have quite a few good essays here on common theist arguments: https://infidels.org/library/modern-library-subject-index/
here is a recent document showing how a famous apologist, Gary Habermas, fails in his claims: https://infidels.org/library/modern/legal-evaluation-of-minimal-facts-apologetics/
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my response to your set of false claims on your own blog, MJ. Great to see you directly lie about me. shame your god hates lies and liars.
“This was where I made my first mistake: responding to a person who was just there to be angry and bitter and not to actually have a civil conversation where both parties could learn.
I asked about what she believed Christianity teaches or if she had studied it in depth and the answer I got was:
“I was a christian, and have studied all of its many contradictory versions in depth.
There is no evidence for any of the many versions, and each teaches something different. Christians teach free will and they teach predestination. They teach all sorts of different things about the bible since they can’t agree on what parts are to be taken literally, as metaphor, as exaggeration, etc.
Each invents what laws they want to follow ignoring those that they don’t like or are inconvenient. They also invent how one is saved, unable to agree if it is belief, grace, works, childbirth, faith, etc.
but do tell what you think which of the many version is the “right” one and what evidence for it do you think is the strongest.“”
Curious how she can’t or won’t answer these questions or of the other questions I’ve asked her here. This seems to be no more than a scared young woman who has realized her religion isn’t quite what she has claimed it to be. Encountering someone who has actually read the bible and knows christian apologetics seems to have frightened her.
Nice false claims, MJ. I’m the person that MJ is bearing false witness about, which makes her claim to be a christian rather problematic.
“Good job Ms. Schadenfreude! You truly are the cat-lady extraordinaire who never graduated middle school in terms of mental or emotional maturity. You have tried to make me and others miserable (hence the meaning of your chosen name of “Schadenfreude”, which is the happiness or amusement we get out of watching others embarrass themselves or get hurt), but instead, it seems that your bullying (because that’s what these comments were is bullying) has only served to backfire on you. Instead of making me question and want to deconstruct from my faith, you have only encouraged me to cling tighter to my faith, spend more time understanding and defending the Bible, and I will be creating a series answering the problems you have with Christianity as I choose to do so. Read and comment if you want.”
As usual, MJ resorts to false claims and attempts at being insulting. It’s notable that she uses typical maga attacks, which seems to indicates she worships an orange rapist, and someone who has claimed he doesn’t need forgiveness from the christian god. unable to show that I’m wrong, all MJ chooses to do is lie. her god hates lies and liars so she seems to be ignoring it as she finds convenient.
and dear, the name of my blog is Club Schadenfreude, not me. If you had actually cared to learn about me, you’d know that you can call me Vel, and you would have been able to read why I chose the term “schadenfreude”. I am happy and amused when people harm themselves out of their willful ignorance and arrogance.
The comments weren’t bullying, but you find you must lie to claim so since you could not show that I was wrong. You can’t even explain what your “faith” is, and have done a great job of showing how you and your family church shop on your comments on my blog. It’s very unlikely you will do any “series” since you’ve failed so far.
It’s rather amusing that the “ex-narnian” has nothing but being cranky. I do love this>”M.J., I made it clear that I’ve gone down every conceivable apologetic trail I can think of, and you respond by giving them to me, all the while making it abundantly clear (and not for the first time) that your blog exists and that you’re in high school. It’s becoming evident that you’re using my blog to promote yourself and your agenda, not to give me anything I actually need. Also, clubschadenfreude was right about you: You don’t know whereof you speak. Your apologetics, for all the good they have, are filled with non sequiturs and intellectual dishonesty.”
“clubschadenfreude, M.J. was right about your condescending tone, but she should have flayed your belligerence and snottiness alive. Your comments drip with a self-imposed superiority that comes from age and experience and the unprovable position that there are no gods, and you vilify your opponents with insults and bad attitudes and a stunning lack of compassion and restraint. You are a grown woman, and you act like a high-schooler dressing up her comments in grown-up lingo.”
Unsurprisingly, the poor fellow can’t show his imaginary friend exists at all. It’s rather amusing that his attacking of both of us is a lovely demonstration of how his claims simply contradict themselves. One has to wonder which of these attacks are true: it is that MJ’s apologetics are wrong, or that I’m wrong for showing how they fail? Should lies be allowed to stand or not? Duritz seems unable to decide. His attacks against MJ show he has no compassion or restraint. His attacks against me show he is upset that someone dares to show that his faith is a failure and is upset that people can know that there are no gods.
That you, MJ, and Duritz, both can’t show that your gods exist or that your version of christianity is true does a great job of demonstrating that there is little reason to believe such nonsense.
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The reason I haven’t answered your questions is because they will make excellent blog posts and I’m no longer going to waste my time answering your ad hominem attacks in the comments when I can be doing other things. You don’t scare me. Your anger has no affect on my faith.
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And yet again, another christian has no idea what an ad hominem argument fallacy is. It’s when an oppponent in a debate brings up irrelevant information to cast doubt on their opponent. Show where I’ve used an ad hominem argument, MJ.
You’ve lied about me, MJ. Your god hates lies and liars. You might want to check out Romans 3 where Paul says that even if you think you are lying *for* this god, you are still damned.
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Love the line about it going well with the Benny Hill soundtrack, Yakety Sax! Gonna have that song in my head now when I compare those “gospels.” lol.
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Yep, it’s always in my head when I see some nitwit claiming there are no contradictions in the gospels. I’d love to have enough people to film exactly what is proposed by these rather silly cultists, but you’d need a couple of dozen of people and all weaving around each other and I’m not a choreographer. 🙂
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