Jonathan Waits, a pastor, makes a lot of false claims. He’s been here before: this, and this. Here’s my response to them. Nothing much new. Memes at the bottom.
“The church has a bit of a bad rap.”
wow, it’s great fun to see christians try to minimize the harm that they’ve done in the name of their god. Let’s see, the crusades where they killed for their god and also attacked other christians. the various religious wars between catholic and protestant royalty. The inquisition. the dum diversas that said that any non-christian can be enslaved with no problem. The christian slavers in the US. The attacks and lies about LGBT+ people. The attacks on each other during the irish civil war, adn the continued attempts of all versions to convert each other in their “missionary” work.
So no, it isn’t unfair to point out the lies of this religion or of any religion.
Not sure where you got that “Baptisms are up. Membership is up. Attendance is up. Reputation is up.” what I’ve seen is that they are all still down, and still declining. All that is seen is that christians are moving between versions, and each tries to claim that they are the only right one. The only places that show some increase are those ignorant countries around the world where christianity preys on ignorance and fear.
“When a group of Muslim terrorists shoved the awful violence that is part of some religious traditions in the face of the world, many Millennials responding by saying with their feet that they didn’t want anything else to do with religion.”
funny how that violence is part of Christianity too, despite the attempts of christians to lie about that.
“For a nation that had a uniquely religious heritage, the extraordinarily rapid rise in the number of these “nones” shocked sociologists and statisticians believing and unbelieving alike.”
The US? Funny how it doesn’t have a “uniquely religious heritage” but a uniquely secular heritage, where the founders intentionally ignored Christianity and other religions. Not one was cited in the constitution. Why did you try to lie about this?
“. They are sick of how judgmental is has proven to be. Secularists rose to cultural prominence through the 1990s and early 2000s by condemning the church for being so narrow-minded and judgmental. Once it became established, however, and started forming its own orthodoxies as every worldview is wont to do, these proved to be even more narrow-minded and judgmental than the church they had condemned.”
another nice set of false claims. Curious how christians love to claim this and yet can’t show it to be true. They find that since they can’t force their religions on others, that means they are such martyrs. Sorry, doesn’t work in a country where there are hundreds of christian tv and radio stations and millions of churches.
“The difference between secularism and Christianity, though, is that while both worldviews have clear views on what kind of behavior is considered to be sinful, secularism doesn’t have any notion of grace or forgiveness. If you cross the secular orthodoxy there is no path to redemption for you to walk. You are simply out.”
This is quite the lie too. Alas, for you, it is human to forgive, not just christian. The secular justice system works better than a religious one where garbage like “blasphemy” is punishable by death. One pays one’s “debt” to society and that’s how redemption works. Happily, we also have love, so your attempt to cause fear to get poeple to join your cult is quite pathetic.
“One last explanation. Sociologist Ryan Burge recently released a report arguing that being a part of a church leads to greater levels of happiness. That is, going to church makes you happy. And the more you go to church, the happier you will be. And he’s got the receipts to back up his claim. Among those who report never going to church, just 22% report that they are very happy. From there, as church attendance starts to climb from seldom to yearly to monthly to weekly, and finally to more than once a week, reported levels of happiness increase smoothly all the way up to 43%. In case you missed the math there, people who are active, involved members of a church who attend at least once a week report being twice as happy as those who never go.”
Actually it isn’t an explanation at all. Burge ignores that community make people happy, not religion, so your claims fail miserably again. People are also happier going to mosque, going to synagogue, etc. You intentionally misrepresented Burge’s work. Curiosu activity for a person who claims to worship a god who hates lies and liars.
Club Schadenfreude 
A myriad of skewed assertions that are so typical of the Christian perspective.They regularly accept little or no culpability for the heinous historical actions perpetrated in the name of their religion, or present them such a way one might be forgiven for thinking ‘it’ wasn’t really so bad or, those lot weren’t ‘real’ Christians.
It’s enough to make one puke.
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“That is, going to church makes you happy. And the more you go to church, the happier you will be.”
Not quite. The more you go to church, the happier you will claim to be. Because they coach you to always say you are happy, regardless of whether you actually are. If you aren’t happy their magic formula isn’t working, so you always have to act like you’re happy. (MLMs push the same nonsense on their members, and push it hard.) Once you get away from the church, you will be able to honest about how happy you are or aren’t.
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took me a moment to remember what MLMs were. My folks were in Amway for a happily brief time. The idea of happiness is what seels these things and if anyone admits that the happiness fails, then that means the cult’s claims fail. Humans tend to equate their self-worth with what they believe adn it is an unfortunate tendency to double down when those things fail.
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If Jesus H Christ died for people’s sins why do the Christians still insist there is hell?
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Aaah… Well you have to buy in to the whole Jesus/Yahweh /you are a sinner thing so you at least get a ticket for the lottery of life and death when Jesus returns and lays waste to the earth and all of humanity.
Perhaps if you wave your lotto ticket enough Jesus may just notice you and usher you through the pearly gates?
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It’s a bad sale
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quite a problem isn’t it? my opinion is that they are simply vicious people who need others punished for disagreeing with them.
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But that’s really vicious
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yep, these cultists are sadists.
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“Once it became established, however, and started forming its own orthodoxies as every worldview is wont to do, these proved to be even more narrow-minded and judgmental than the church they had condemned.” – This has certainly proved true in my experience. Also, this whole post is just hate. You are stirring up hate for Christians because you don’t believe what they do. That’s so wrong.
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Most Christians are decent enough people. The religion of Christianity, however, is simply vile, supernatural crap.
Although this quote from Weinburg might be an oversimplification it still has merit.
“Good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things, but for a good person to do bad things it takes religion”.
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I agree with the quote from Weinburg, religion can motivate people to do horrific evils. But I think if you are truly living Christ’s teachings, you will avoid monstrous evil. The problem is most professing Christians are not living Christ’s teachings.
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There are a number of the supposed teachings of the character Jesus of Nazareth that are highly questionable. And it is always worth reminding Christians that he was Jewish and insisted the Law was to be followed,
The problem is that most Christians are not very familiar with the Law.
Are you?
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I’m relatively familiar with the law, but I don’t consider the statement attributed to Christ regarding keeping the Law as authentic. Rather, I consider it to be written as a form of argument against Paul’s Law free Gospel. And Paul for his part made statements condemning those who try to keep the Law. It was Christian infighting, not a teaching of the historical Christ in my view. I consider Christ’s message to be most clearly represented by:
‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Mt 22:37–40.
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As you are Hell bent on dismissing the verses that do not align with your cherry picked version of Christianity/the bible, how exactly do you know the verse you quoted was spoken by an historical Jesus, and not merely inserted by some scribe or another. Assuming of course there even was an historical Jesus?
Furthermore, can you direct me to any official text, edict, doctrine etc that states Christianity is a buffet style religion the way you portray it?
However, if you are adamant your understanding of the Bible is THE correct approach may I suggest it seems to align more with the prophet, Brian who was accused of
“Making it up as he goes along!”
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making it up as he goes along
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The greatest prophet in religious history
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as has been demosntrated, you simply make up your own religion like all theists. You have no more “truth” than any other theist. The hypocrisy is quite common. So many christians are terrified of the laws in the bible and do anything they can to claim that they don’t have to follow them.
Curious how in Matthew 22 we also have verses like this:
““Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.’”
so your jesus wants people tortured for eternity. Of course, you’ll simply make yet more false claims and insist that in “your view” this isn’t “really” what your imaginary friend wants.
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Again, christians do not agree on what “christ’s teachings” even are, so you each make up what you want, and not one of you can show that your version is any better than the rest’s. You have cherry picked what you like from this religion, and ignored the parts that are indeed “monstrous”.
Every christian claims the other christians aren’t “living christ teachings”.
Curious how some of these are Christ’s teachings in the bible:
“34 ‘Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.
37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.” Matthew 10
“Then he said to them, ‘You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10 For Moses said, “Honour your father and your mother”; and, “Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.” 11 But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, “Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban” (that is, an offering to God[e])— 12 then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.’” Mark 7
your jesus says that it is correct to kill children for not honoring their father and mother.
” 37 For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man.” Matthew 24
it’s okay to commit genocide and kill people.
“, 11 “Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet, we wipe off in protest against you. Yet know this: the kingdom of God has come near.” 12 I tell you, on that day it will be more tolerable for Sodom than for that town.” Luke 10
yep, destruction and death if you don’t accept this religion.
“14 Later Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, ‘See, you have been made well! Do not sin any more, so that nothing worse happens to you.’ ” John 5
obey or be harmed.
and far more are here: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
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That is quite a false claim. Do show where atheists have become what is claimed in that quote from Jonathan. Surely you can, right?
You have invented your own orthodoxy, with your picking and choosing what you want to be the “truth”. Jonathan has done the same. And pointing out how christian lies isn’t stirring up hate. If what christians choose to do causes someone to hate them and it is the truth, why is that wrong? I also can show how wannabee nazis act and the harm they cause. Do you find that “wrong” too?
I have no problem revealing just how these cults fail since their claims cause real harm.
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