Tag: Hitler

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – you’d think conservative Christians would know better than to lie

A common false claim by many Christians has to do with Darwin and evolutionary theory.  They want to so desperately conflate Social Darwinism with evolutionary theory, in order to try to scare people from accepting evolutionary theory and realizing that the bible is nothing different from any other silly set of myths.

I found this blog post, by “Brother Murf”, and it is one of the more extreme of its kind, with more false nonsense.  I confronted him with his nonsense and he doubled down “Darwinian was the impetus of his actions. Once set in motion, atheists are the gods of their own world. He was going to become a priest when he read THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES…”

I responded “Always good to see that some theists have no problem lying and bearing false witness, ignoring their bible as convenient for them. Stalin was a megalomaniac this is why he did what he did. He misused Darwin’s ideas. But nice try to lie about what atheism leads to. If Stalin had become a priest, he would have done the same with the bible.”

Now, we get into the fun parts.   He responded below.  I did a nice bit of research to show him that he is wrong.  I hated to waste that so here it is. Just the bits by dear Louisa McCord are worth it.  She was quite a piece of work.

“Not lying, my friend. The facts of history speak for themselves. Nor have I ignored the bible as you said. In this we agree, Stalin was a megalomaniac and it is highly probable that he would have done the same thing with the bible…perhaps, dare I go so far to posit, he may have even set in motion a new Inquisition? There was no misuse of Darwin’s ideas, he directly used their intended purpose. Most people fail to remember the full title of the book: “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.” He never actually touched on the “origin of species” and his theory was failing at best. Everything, without a moral lawgiver, became relative to the person. Man could speed up the natural selection process by killing off the “unfavoured races”…No, there was no misuse of that theory, as it was a partial impetus for the Civil War here in the United States to preserve the white mans favored status, it was the impetus for Hitler’s war against the Jews, Pol Pot’s killing of his own people, Mao Tse Tung’s killing of his own people…ahhhh, the list could go on, but I won’t because you have it all figured out…Godspeed to you.”

So, which is it, Murf?  “Stalin killed millions because he believed Darwin’s philosophy”  or “Stalin was a megalomaniac and it is highly probable that he would have done the same thing with the bible”. Continue reading “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – you’d think conservative Christians would know better than to lie” →

Not So Polite Dinner Conservation – more tasty conservative Christian stupidity

Well, we have “Red”, a complete idiot from somewhere around Tucson, Arizona.  He/she (I’ll default to he since most idiots like this are guys) appears to be one more ignorant conservative Christian who quotes G.K. Chesterton and does so incompetently thanks to the image that “Red” uses in their gravatar.

On this post, Red commented and wrote: “Was Hitler a tool of God? Yep. God let him crush apostate and atheistic nations. Then the US came in with prayer and sacrifice. then his dreams died, but he sent a half-million SS and Gestapo into the world. Most notably, the USSR took in close to half, and white Muslim nations many of the rest.

https://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/hitlers-war-on-christianity-quotes/ shows his bigotry against Christianity. Private quotes on Mein Kamph shows he thought people who actually think he believed what he wrote are morons. Today, we have much antisemitism in liberal groups in the US.”

of course this is one of the stupidest things I’ve read in a while.  Red’s points are:

1.  Hitler was a tool…. I mean “tool” of Red’s version of the Christian god.

2.  Hitler was allowed by this god to “crush apostate and atheistic nations”.

3.  The US somehow defeated Nazi Germany by “prayer and sacrifice”.

4.  Somehow Hitler sent a half a million “SS and Gestapo into the world”

5. The USSR took in a lot of these and “white Muslim nations” took in many of the rest.

6.  Hitler hated Christianity.

7.  There are “private notes” that somehow disagree with all of what Mein Kampf says.

8.  No one is right about Hitler except Red.

9. Liberals in the US are anti-semitic.

So, to look through this idiocy, let’s consider each claim:

  1. Per Red, this god used Hitler to cause genocide against the Jews, homosexuals, the disabled, Roma, etc. But Red tries to accuse people for being anti-Semitic.  Exactly how is this god not anti-semitic?  Poor Red, too stupid to make a coherent argument.
  2. Hitler failed entirely in crushing anyone. And any country he invaded wasn’t an atheistic or apostate nation.  The closest one was the Soviet Union and they kicked Adolph’s ass.  I’m sure that poor Red would be horrified that the Night Witches, female pilots, helped.
  3. Many nations worked together to end Nazi Germany, more than the US. Poor Red has to lie to make himself feel special.  Sacrifice, and not prayer, is what worked.  Red is a pathetic liar.
  4. No evidence of this at all. And the US took a lot of Nazi rocket scientists in, so if Red wants to brag about not accepting Nazis, he’s a liar again.
  5. What the heck is a “white muslim nation”? it seems that Red is being stupid again, lying with no evidence to support him.
  6. Hitler was a Roman Catholic Christian. He repeatedly stated how he was this and how he hated the Jews because they killed Christ.  For his quotes about this, here you go.
  7. Poor Red, the website that he gave is a private one of a coward who doesn’t’ allow anyone to see his lies unless he approves. “This site is marked private by its owner. If you would like to view it, you’ll need permission from the site owner. Request an invite and we’ll send your username to the site owner for their approval.”
  8. Red must lie and fail just like so many other conservative Christians. He depends on lies that can be shown to be wrong.  Poor dear.
  9. No evidence for Red’s lies for this either. In fact, reality shows that Red is an incompetent liar since liberals are very much against anti-Semites like Trump’s “fine people”  g. wannabee nazis and confederates.

One more idiot in the conservative Christian ranks shown for what he is.  He’s done such a great job in showing that Christianity is crap.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – some research that I didn’t want to go to waste re: Christianity and Nazism

since this research took a little time, no reason to waste it since the Christian I was replying to has prevented comments that show him wrong from showing on his blog.  As usual, this Christian, Michael,  ignores what he doesn’t want to admit to, and resorts to false claims to defend his need to invent a Christianity that has done no wrong.  Nothing new here if you know your history.  

Let’s look at some of Hitler’s quotes from Mein Kampf and his speeches. There is no problem in imaging these words from any conservative Christian:
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. ”
“This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.”
“And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God”
“Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”
“For this, to be sure, from the child’s primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!’”
And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government.
” That’s because he despised Christianity (or as he called it, “the religion of the catacombs”)”
– a false claim from our Christian.  no source for that quote at all. This is a false claim.

”The Nazi philosophy itself was antithetical to Christianity, and Hitler knew this and planned for the eventual elimination of Bibles, crosses, worship of Jesus, etc.”
Nope, not at all, as you can see from the quote above.
The swastika was a common sign of good luck in pre Nazi says. The state library here in Pennsyvlania has hundreds of swastikas in it that are part of the ornate railing around the floors. The swastika, also known as the fylfot was a common thing in Christian culture.
We also have the problem when Christians try to claim that Nazis weren’t christians when they banned books on evolutionary theory, just like conservative Christians try now. This list is from the 1935 Die Bucherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published these collection evaluation “guidelines” during the second round of “purifications” (saüberung).

1. The works of traitors, emigrants and authors from foreign countries who believe they can attack and denigrate the new German (H.G. Wells, Rolland).
2. The literature of Marxism, Communism and Bolshevism.
3. Pacifist literature.
4. Literature with liberal, democratic tendencies and attitudes, and writing supporting the Weimar Republic (Rathenau, Heinrich Mann).
5. All historical writings whose purpose is to denigrate the origin, the spirit and the culture of the German Volk, or to dissolve the racial and structural order of the Volk, or that denies the force and importance of leading historical figures in favor of egalitarianism and the masses, and which seeks to drag them through the mud (Emil Ludwig).
6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).
7. Books that advocate “art” which is decadent, bloodless, or purely constructivist (Grosz, Dix, Bauhaus, Mendelsohn).
8. Writings on sexuality and sexual education which serve the egocentric pleasure of the individual and thus, completely destroy the principles of race and Volk (Hirschfeld).

So, conservative Christians, do you recognize yourselves?
Again, I had to quote the information on the links given since our Christian tried to ignore what they said.  This is what got me banned, daring to show him wrong to his followers.
“The Fylfot was widely adopted in the early Christian centuries. It is found extensively in the Roman catacombs. A most unusual example of its usage is to be found in the porch of the parish church of Great Canfield, Essex, England. As the parish guide rightly states, the Fylfot or Gammadion can be traced back to the Roman catacombs where it appears in both Christian and pagan contexts. More recently it has been found on grave-slabs in Scotland and Ireland A particularly interesting example was found in Barhobble, Wigtownshire in Scotland.
Gospel books also contain examples of this form of the Christian cross. The most notable examples are probably the Book of Kells and the Lindisfarne Gospels. Mention must also be made of an intriguing example of this decoration that occurs on the Ardagh Chalice.
From the early 14th Century on, the Fylfot was often used to adorn Eucharistic robes. During that period it appeared on the monumental brasses that preserved the memory of those priests thus attired. They are mostly to be found in East Anglia and the Home Counties.
Probably its most conspicuous usage has been its incorporation in stained glass windows notably in Cambridge and Edinburgh. In Cambridge it is found in the baptismal window of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, together with other allied Christian symbols, originating in the 19th century.” – Wikipedia
“Its “Discovery” and Meanings in Modern Europe The symbol experienced a resurgence in the  nineteenth century, as a result of growing European interest in the ancient civilizations of the Near East and India. During his extensive excavations, the German  archaeologist  Heinrich Schliemann discovered the hooked cross on the site of ancient Troy. He connected it with similar shapes found on pottery in Germany and speculated that it was a “significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors.” Other European scholars and thinkers linked the symbol to a shared Aryan culture that spanned Europe and Asia.
In the beginning of the twentieth century the swastika was widely used in Europe. It had numerous meanings, the most common being a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness.”  – US Holocaust Museum
So we have a symbol meaning good luck and auspiciousness (auspicious: showing or suggesting that future success is likely) taken by Hitler who wanted to pretend that his reich would exist forever, who was a Christian who knew the use of the symbol, and then used it.

Again, we see that Nazism was built from Christianity from Hitler’s own words in Mein Kampf.  “Not only because it incorporated those revered colours expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honour to the German nation, but this symbol was also an eloquent expression of the will behind the movement. We National Socialists regarded our flag as being the embodiment of our party programme. The red expressed the social thought underlying the movement. White the national thought. And the swastika signified the mission allotted to us–the struggle for the victory of Aryan mankind and at the same time the triumph of the ideal of creative work which is in itself and always will be anti-Semitic.”  

And “Christianity was not content with erecting an altar of its own. It had first to destroy the pagan altars. It was only in virtue of this passionate intolerance that an apodictic faith could grow up. And intolerance is an indispensable condition for the growth of such a faith.”
And “Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts’ content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.” 
The Nazis added their own spin to Christianity just like every Christians does, for weal or woe. However at its root lies the need for a religion to create an “other” to hate and the lie of being a chosen people who must strive against those who disagree with them.  Christianity isn’t not alone in this.