Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a lovely detailed review of “Christian Nation” claims

Two common subjects on this blog are false statements made by theists, particularly many Christians, and the claims that the United States of American is a “Christian” nation.  This July, a TrueChristian business, Hobby Lobby, took it upon themselves to again run a large ad in major newspapers on July 4th claiming that the US is a Christian nation.  They used all sorts of quotes to support their point.

This year, the Freedom From Religion Foundation ran a competing ad.  And just recently, they put up an interactive webpage that has the text from the Hobby Lobby ad linked directly to the evidence that HL’s claims are wrong.  It’s a great resource on the false claims of Christian Nationalists and demonstrates how much they depend on deceit.

 

So much for a religion supposed based on truth.  I’m glad I finally got out of it.  The FFRF is kind enough to say HL used “creative editing”.  I have no problem calling them intentional liars.

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9 responses to “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a lovely detailed review of “Christian Nation” claims

    • Lying for Jesus to win souls is a time-honored tradition. It started with the apostle Paul, who wrote: “I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.” (1 Cor 9:22)

      Eusebius further proposed: “How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”

      Clement of Alexandria argued that there was a distinction between “mere human truth” and the higher truth of faith: “Not all true things are the truth, nor should that truth which merely seems true according to human opinions be preferred to the true truth, that according to the faith.”

      And Luther concluded: “What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.”

      See, the end justifies the means if you are doing it for Jesus. Otherwise, it’s pure evil.

      • nice list. I would also include CS Lewis’s claim that any problems with Christianity should be lied about and concealed.

        From “Mere Christianity” – “And secondly, I think we must admit that the discussion of these disputed points has no tendency at all to bring an outsider into the Christian fold. So long as we write and talk about them we are much more likely to deter him from entering any Christian communion than to draw him into our own. Our divisions should never be discussed except in the presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is His only Son” (p.vi).

        It seems that all of these “church fathers” missed the bit in Romans 3 that says that even lying “for” this god will get you damned. As always good to know that even the “super-faithful” pick and choose as much as those who warm the bench.

    • one does have to wonder, especially since it’s easy to reveal such nonsense.

      It seems it always takes willful ignorance and willful lying to keep a religion going. I think many theists don’t believe but have invested so much of theier self-worth into it, they find that they must either defend it/lie for it, or admit that they were conned.

      • There should be no need to lie for god if the belief were true.
        The worst group are those who have made it their business to apologize for their god and funny beliefs.

  1. Had the founding fathers been devout Christians, there wouldn’t have been an American Revolution, because the Bible commands followers to “honor and obey the king” and/or submit to the governing authorities (Eccl 8:2-4; Mt 22:21; Mk 12:17; Lk 20:25; Rom 13:1-7; Heb 13:17; 1 Pt 2:13-17; Ti 3:1).

    But every God-fearing American Christian already knows this, right?

    In any case, Article 11 of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796 hammers the point home with singular clarity:

    “As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion…”

  2. Furthermore, lets look at the essence of Christianity: Obedience to a ruler that was born into the position. The position makes them right on all things. Their position may change for unfatomable reasons, and you are wrong to question it. They may torture you to prove your obedience, see Job and Jephthah, and you would be wrong to question it

    That is not an elightenment value: Freedom, Liberty, and the consent of the gorverned are axiomatically the opposite of Christianity. The very concept, the essence of enlightenment thought is OPPOSITE of Christianity.

    • Indeed. We see the New Testament say repeatedly to obey anyone in power since this god supposedly put everyone in power that is there. Of course, we do have plenty of TrueChristians who insist that this does not apply to them and who ignore such commands.

      The idea of democratic rule does not appear in the bible. That came from those ol’ pagans. 🙂

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