Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a Christian’s excuse for supporting an anti-christ aka Trump

Haden, over at, has done a great job at showing just what some Christians will do to gain power. Haden, unsurprisingly, is a Trumpie.  Nothing new is here.  Pretty much every Trumpie will make the same excuses.

As some of you might know, the editor of Christianity Today, a magazine started by the Billy Graham family of pastors, wrote an article on why Christians shouldn’t support Donald J. Trump.   Haden is quite sure that it is wrong for Galli to have pointed out why Christians shouldn’t support a liar, a cheat, a self-proclaimed sexual abusers, someone who has said he doesn’t need forgiveness by Haden’s god, and who idolizes murderous dictators that kill their own people, including Christians.

“It is no secret that evangelicals are split on Trump. Many are his strongest allies. Many view him as an abomination. Many voted for him simply because they did not like their other options. “

Vanishingly few evangelical Christians find Trump an abomination. Most voted for him because they are indeed bigots and wannabee theocrats that will do anything for power. We know that they want judges appointed to give them a chance to legislate their religion into law.

It’s something when Haden claims this “Although, naturally a Christian evangelical publication is going to lean right and conservative.” This does seem to be a tendency but what is this reason when their supposed savior was a communist who supported the sick and the poor? It seems that again, Christianity is made up by the believer, not the other way around.

We do know Haden’s stance, anything for power and anyone who doesn’t agree with him is not a true Christian. He isn’t objective but he does want to claim that *no one* is, as an excuse for himself. Haden says he will likely vote for Trump in 2020. “I won’t vote for anyone else”, and he admits that. Someone who won’t vote for anyone else has declared that Trump is indeed is “favorite guy in the world.” His bias *is* in the open.

As much as Haden doesn’t like facts, there are some that show that his intended choice, above anyone else, is indeed someone that Christians wouldn’t vote for.

Haden tries to argue that Trump, by trying to force a foreign power to conduct a baseless investigation of an American citizen, isn’t “really” an abuse of power. What is Haden’s excuse? That Galli hadn’t mentioned all of the evidence in the editorial. Of course, one can read the report from the House to see all of the sworn testimony and evidence. We don’t have the actual transcripts since they have been hidden by Trump in a separate confidential server.  Funny how Trump isn’t willing to be under oath and is terrified if any of his closest people are under oath. An oath to be honest before Haden’s god. Hmmmm.  We do have the evidence, Haden, and you again try to ignore that fact.

The editorial, and Haden’s (plus other evangelicals) actions do paint themselves as ignoring their bible and their god.  The editorial in CT has “That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.” Haden is offended by that last statement.

Hmmm, how dare anyone expect Haden to be loyal aka faithful to his god and to what the bible claims? Well, what does the bible actually say about a man like Donald J. Trump and his known actions? Is salvation conditioned on support of Trump or not?

Is salvation connected to actions at all? Well, that’s a problem for Christians since, again, they disagree if it is or not. There is the “always saved” bunch, the “actions will happen because of faith” bunch, the “faith alone” bunch, and “any good act is rewarded” bunch.

But if we look at the bible itself, it seems rather clear on at least what this god doesn’t want in a leader. But in the bible we do have that problem that Paul claims that *any* leader is put in place by this god, so obedience to a leader is indeed required for salvation, despite what Haden says “So, does Galli really believe that if one votes, or supports Trump, that one is not loyal to God? If pressed, surely he would not make salvation conditioned on support, or non-support, of a president. Even if we tone down the language to that of obedience, surely this is an overreach.”

Ummm, yep, Haden, your bible does literally say this: Romans 13 if you are confused (or trying to ignore it).

Haden’s also horrified that anyone dares not call him the only True Christian, and that other Christians might find this to be the case. Haden of course does this repeatedly. And oh no, someone dares to speak prophetically about how Christians should act? You mean like Pat Robertson, Robert Jeffress and others that Haden follows? Such the pot calling the other Christian kettle black.

Indeed, Haden, who will take you seriously after you support Trump? He offers these excuses:

  • “The truth of the Gospel message is not dependent upon the character of the Gospel messenger.”

In that no Christian can come up with a “truth” here that they all agree on is the problems Christians like Haden have.

  • “The effectiveness of the Gospel message is not dependent upon the character of the Gospel messenger.”

That Christians can’t agree makes a completely ineffective message since the message changes with each Christian.

  • “If a person will only accept the Gospel message on the condition that I publicly denounce Trump, that person does not understand the message.”

If a person notes that you ignore your bible, that person understands that you cherry pick what you want to accept.

  • “A vote for Trump is not a justification of all of his actions and words. I repeat: a vote for Trump is not a justification of all of his actions and words.”

This from a Christian who wants you to think he doesn’t completely support Trump but who will vote for NO ONE ELSE. It is a justification of all of his actions and words.

That people vote for Trump means that they *have* justified his actions and words to be more important than following what the Bible says. Haden desperately wants abortion to be made criminal. He will accept anything as long as he thinks that will happen. He is indeed saying that as long as he gets what he wants “the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end”. Haden literally says this “if we don’t vote for the conservative candidate that has the best chance at winning, we are more likely to get a president who will make our efforts toward ending abortion that much more difficult.” The end justifies the means, a suitable amoral idea that goes well with the “might equals right” claims of conservative Christianity.

There are no false dichotomies as Haden would claim. His words out his intentions. Unlike Haden’s claim “We can support the candidate that is most pro-life “friendly” while at the same time calling-out his moral failures.” , these people never consider or call out Trump’s moral failures. They invent excuses for them, just like Haden is doing.

For people like Haden, abortion is just a “think of the children” lie that they use to try to hide their desire for a theocracy. That they consistently elect people who cut help to families and children aka “innocent human beings made in the image of God” and who have no problem with over a thousand children lost in Trump’s immigration nightmare, and who don’t want children to have the best chance in life, shows that they are not “pro-life” at all. Not caring for children after they leave the womb shows that all they want is control.

For someone who wants to toss about the term “genocide”, Haden doesn’t want that term being used for his god when the bible has it commanding genocide committed on other people. If genocide is wrong, then it is always wrong. If not, then Haden’s god is as subjective as Haden is. Haden assumes he knows what his god is concerned with “At the risk of going too far, let me ask, what is God more concerned with? The way other people view you, or the genocide of millions of innocent lives? The question is really: Are you willing to support a president with a less than perfect moral life for the sake of ending abortion, or not?”

Hmmm, a god that commands genocide? This god has done nothing about abortion. The bible only mentions the killing of children as being approved of or being done directly by this god. If we go with the bible, abortion is at best no concern of this god, and at worst, approved of by this god. Are you willing to support a god that is like this?  A god that wants you to go for a “lesser of two evils”, which is not a biblical idea? Are you willing to ignore the parts of the bible that say not to follow a liar, a cheat, an adulterer, etc?

“Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” – 2 John 1

As we end up seeing, Haden is all about winning and power. “To them I say: show me the pro-life candidate with a perfect moral life that actually has a chance at winning.” And then we see this “Whatever option you take, far be it from me to question your “loyalty” to God as Galli has done.” Except, you know, when Haden insists that some Christians really aren’t Christians, like Mormons, JWs, etc.

Haden insists that some candidate needs to be supported, but we have the bible saying to not bother with the actions of this world. It would only be someone who is quite sure that this world is it when he is so concerned about it. That an evangelical has no one to vote for shouldn’t be an issue.

It seems we have a schism between conservative Christians and Trumpie Christians. Haden is a Trumpie Christian, close to a conservative Christian, but another step away in being sure that he and he alone can decide what this god wants and ignoring even more of his bible as is convenient. Even the OT, the bastion of conservative Christianity, doesn’t go far enough for him. Losing this “base” isn’t a bad thing at all. For all of the claims of “irrelevantness” about who Billy would have voted for, Haden found it necessary to mention.

The hypocrisy of conservative Christians and Trumpie Christians is fun to watch. They are after each other with knives, and all about who knows their invisible friend best.  I do feel sorry for the Christians who are good people in spite of the religion.   They often get tarred with the same brush.

Just in case Christians are a bit forgetful about what their god says about following someone just for power and excusing what he does when convenient:

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.” Matthew 7

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?” – 2 Corinthians 6

“You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. You shall not fall in with the many to do evil, nor shall you bear witness in a lawsuit, siding with the many, so as to pervert justice, nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his lawsuit.” – Exodus 23

“And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”” -Luke 18

“Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death19 is the man who deceives his neighbor
and says, “I am only joking!””- Proverbs 26

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21

But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) By no means! For then how could God judge the world? But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.” – Romans 3

Some will chide me for using the bible to point out the failures of Christians and Christianity, mostly Christians. But how else to show such hypocrisy and thoughtlessness?  No one needs the bible or Christianity or Christians to be a humane person.  If you aren’t even going to try, you get to be held responsible.

9 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – a Christian’s excuse for supporting an anti-christ aka Trump

  1. It’s fascinating to watch precisely what happened in Nazi Germany and the Christians there (supporting Hitler) happen in the US today.

    They have set their own house on fire.


      1. I have pages of quotes and things ordered into categories, like “Christians on Hitler & Nazis: Quotes from Christians Supporting Hitler” and they were all contained in one neat site. This now appears to be the site, but they seems to have broken up the categories.

        Here’s 20 extracts from that category:

        Christians on Hitler & Nazis: Quotes from Christians Supporting Hitler
        German Catholics & Protestants Praised, Supported Hitler as a Gift from God

        American Christians seem to be completely unaware of the degree to which Christians in Germany threw their support behind Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party. If they did, they might be less likely to pretend that the crimes of Hitler and the Nazis can be traced to atheism or secularism. They might also be less likely to do so much to transform their own Christianity into an American echo of Germany’s extreme nationalistic Christianity.

        1. Easter Sunday Blessing: Nazi Party Rules Germany in God’s Name
        A state that once again rules in God’s name can count not only on our applause but also on enthusiastic and active cooperation from the church. With joy and thanks we see how this new state rejects blasphemy, attacks immorality, promotes discipline and order with a firm hand, demands awe before God, works to keep marriage sacred and our youth spiritually instructed, brings honor back to fathers of families, ensures that love of people and fatherland is no longer mocked, but burns in a thousand hearts. …We can only plead with our fellow worshipers to do an they can to help these new productive forces in our land reach a complete and unimpeded victory.
        – Easter Sunday Blessing from Protestant Pastors in Bavaria, April 16, 1933

        2. Cardinal Adolf Bertram: Promoting the Christian Education of the People
        [I wish to express my church’s] sincere and joyous preparedness to cooperate as best they could with the government now ruling that had set itself that tasks of promoting the Christian education of the people, repelling ungodliness and immorality, developing readiness to make sacrifices for the common good and protecting the rights of the Church.
        – Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau, letter to Adolf Hitler following the announcement of the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican, July 22, 1933

        3. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: May God Preserve Adolf Hitler
        What the old parliament and parties did not accomplish in sixty years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany’s prestige in East and West and before the whole world this handshake with the Papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing. …May God preserve the Reich Chancellor for our people.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, praising Adolf Hitler for the Concordat, July 24, 1933

        4. Kirchenrat Leutheuser: Christ Comes to Us in the Person of Adolf Hitler
        The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. …Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.
        – Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933

        5. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Catholics Should Agree with the Führer
        In this way the Catholics will profess again their loyalty to people and Fatherland and their agreement with the farsighted and forceful efforts of the Führer to spare the German people the terror of war and Bolshevism, to secure public order and create work for the unemployed.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, encouraging German Catholics to vote “yes” in the upcoming plebiscite to re-elect Hitler and support his decision to withdraw from the League of Nations, November 10, 1933

        6. Father Senn: Adolf Hitler is the Tool of God
        [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God, called upon to overcome Judaism…
        – Father Senn, a Catholic priest, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934

        7. Loyalty Oath: Unconditional Obedience to the Führer
        I swear by almighty God this sacred oath: I will render unconditional obedience to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht, and, as a brave soldier, I will be ready at any time to stake my life for this oath.
        – Loyalty Oath sworn by the military following the death of German President Paul von Hindenburg, August 2, 1934

        8. Fulda Bishops’ Conference: Clergy Must be Loyal to Church and State
        [It is good that Catholic organizations] reject all subversive attitudes and conduct, refrain from any political activity and especially will resolutely repel all attempted approaches of Communism. …[The clergy should always act] in full loyalty to Church and State.
        – Statement of the Fulda Bishops’ Conference, August 23, 1935

        9. German Christian: Hitler Has Reawakened the Church
        Why don’t our rulers declare themselves for the Volkskirche, which is fighting for a living Christianity? With our great leader Adolf Hitler, our previously dead church also experienced the reawakening of a vital spirit. …[Julius] Streicher, the Franconian leader, said in a speech: ‘The murder of Golgotha is written on the foreheads of the Jews.’ Yes – and that is why there is a curse on that people. Jesus, however, died for us and so we should believe in him and accept him.
        – German Christian woman, letter to Germany’s Foreign Minister, August 27, 1935

        10. Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt: Good Catholics are Patriots
        Good Catholics have always been good patriots. Surely not good Catholics staged the revolution of 1918, Catholic soldiers indeed have not been deserters, and good Catholics will never be on the side of revolutionaries, no matter how badly things are going.
        – Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt, Sermon, May 26, 1935

        11. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Catholics Should Pray for the Life of the Führer
        You are witnesses for the fact that on all Sundays and holidays at the main service we pray in all churches for the Führer as we have promised in the Concordat. …We will today give an answer, a Christian answer: Catholic men, we will now pray together a paternoster for the life of the Führer. This is our answer.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Sermon, responding to newspaper story about a Swiss Catholic asking children to pray for Hitler’s death, July 7, 1936

        12. Fulda German Bishops’ Conference: May God Help the Führer Succeed
        [Germany must be made militarily stronger to ensure that not only would Europe be] cleansed from Bolshevism, but the entire rescued civilized world will be able to be thankful to us. …The task which this imposes upon our people and Fatherland follows as a matter of course. May our Führer, with God’s help, succeed in completing this terribly difficult undertaking with unshakable determination and faithful participating of allVolksgenossen.
        – Fulda German Bishops’ Conference, Pastoral Letter, August 19, 1936

        13. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Hitler Lives in Faith in God
        “The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. …Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture. …Not as clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established institution.” As a result of this report, the conference votes to “once again affirm our loyal and positive attitude, demanded by the fourth commandment, toward today’s form of government and the Führer.” They assure the Führer they will provide him “all available moral resources his world-historical struggle aimed at repelling Bolshevism.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936

        14. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Church Must Strengthen Confidence in Hitler
        “The Führer and Chancellor of the Reich, Adolf Hitler, has sighted the advance of Bolshevism from afar and his thoughts and aspirations aim at averting the horrible danger from our German people and the entire Occident. The German bishops consider it their duty to support the head of the German Reich by all those means which the Church has at its disposal.” Faulhaber insists that defending against Bolshevism is a religious duty and, to achieve this, it is necessary for the Church to muster all its moral and spiritual assets “to strengthen confidence in the Führer.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Pastoral Letter, January 3, 1937

        15. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Concordat Improves Reputation of Nazi Germany
        At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government. This was a deed of immeasurable significance for the reputation of the new government abroad.
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, Sermon, February 14, 1937

        16. Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Pray to God in Thanks for Hitler and the Nazis
        [Austrian Catholics should greet Adolf Hitler and the Nazis by] praying to the Lord God in thanks for the bloodless course of this great political change and to ask for a happy future for Austria. Of course, all orders from the authorities will be happily and willingly obeyed.
        – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, March 12, 1938

        17. Cardinal Theodor Innitzer: Priests Must Support the Führer
        Those…entrusted with souls and the faithful will unconditionally support the great German state and the Führer, because the historical struggle against the criminal illusion of Bolshevism and for the security of German life, for work and bread, for the power and honor of the Reich and for the unity of the German nation, is obviously accomplished by the blessing of Providence. …Faith and the intimate union of souls gives Christians the conviction that the natural community of the nation is called upon to realize a divine idea, and it follows that a truly religious life presupposes the practice of national virtues.
        – Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, Archbishop of Vienna, to Catholic clergy after meeting with Hitler, March 15, 1938

        18. Catholic Hierarchy of Austria: National Socialism Defends Against Atheist Bolshe
        We joyfully acknowledge that the National Socialist movement has done and is still doing eminent work in the domain of national and economic construction as well as in the domain of social policy, for the Reich and the German nation… We are also convinced that the activity of the National Socialist movement has averted the danger of an all-destroying atheistic Bolshevism. For the future, the bishops confer their heartiest blessing on this activity, and they will instruct the faithful to this effect. …it is for us a national duty, as Germans, to vote for the German Reich, and we also expect all believing Christians to demonstrate that they know what they owe to their nation.
        -Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, March 18, 1938

        19. Bishop Hans Meiser: Loyalty Oath to the Führer
        Pastors in the Bavarian regional church are required as public officials to perform the following oath: ‘I swear to God the Almighty and All-knowing: I will be loyal and obedient to the Führer of the Reich and Volk, Adolf Hitler, I will obey the laws, and I will conscientiously fulfill all my official duties, so help me God.’ This law is effective immediately.
        -Bishop Hans Meiser of the Bavarian Evangelical-Lutheran Church, May 18, 1938

        20. Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber: Adolf Hitler is a Man of Peace
        “[Adolf Hitler is a] man of peace. …The great deed of safeguarding peace…moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses…to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday.” Read in all Berlin pulpits: “God has heard the prayer of all Christendom for peace. By His grace and the tireless efforts of the responsible statesmen the terrible affliction of a war has been averted… [W]e desire now with a prayer and a Te deum to praise God for His goodness in that He has preserved peace for us…[and] assured the return of our Sudeten kinsmen to the German Reich.”
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, commemorating Germany occupying Sudentenland, October 2, 1938


      2. Here’s some more external sources noting the Nazi-Christian movement:

        4. Adolf Hitler: We Will Fight the Atheistic Movement
        We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
        – Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933

        5. The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”
        “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”

        – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic andfreethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

        6. Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement'”
        “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
        – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933, quoted from Positive Atheism


  2. I could do a whole post on “help me believe”. Anything that requires that much explanation (like his post) obviously has even more explaining to do.


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