Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – attempts to declare one religion “better” doesn’t work out so well

I do love a completely clueless post by John Clayton, over at Does God Exist.  He tries very hard to declare that Christianity is ever so much better than Islam.

To give some background, John tries to claim that he was once an atheist who became a Christian because “science”.  Alas, not one thing about science says that one particular religion is true.  He’s also apparently an old earth creationist, who has no more evidence that nonsense is true than the young earth creationists.  Oh but he is quite proud to claim how wrong they are.   This is a man whose entire reason to believe in his god is a god of the gaps argument:  humans can’t explain everything, so “god” or in his words “I began to realize that science had its limitations — that science, in fact, strongly pointed to other explanations than natural ones to certain questions.”

This is a man who can’t give a name to the supposed “brilliant well known atheist” and geology professor who supposedly taught at Indiana University who said he would show how the bible is garbage.  This is simply a repetition of a common Christian story that comes up in movies like “God is Not Dead”.  Alas, no Christian has ever been able to show a single professor who supposedly did what they claim. 

John’s tendency to think he’s right and everyone else is wrong continues in all of his writings.  Most recently he claims how wrong Islam is and how right his version of Christianity is.  Of course, he is blind to the fact that he uses just as many baseless claims and conveniently ignores his bible when it makes just as silly claims as the qu’ran. 

First we start with John’s claim, as noted above that science showed him his god exists and not everything can be known by science.  Muslims use the same claims (contrast it with Christian attitudes), that there has to be a god since humans don’t know everything yet.  He also claims that he had no reason to think that the “right” god was the Christian one.  Hmmm, nothing but his entire culture being largely Christian. 

He also says he compared what JC ways and what Mo says and that told him who is the right one.  And thus tries to claim that Islam is wrong.

In addition to some scientific errors, the Koran has teachings that denigrate women. “

Hmmm, funny how the bible has these too.  

Here’s a few scientific errors:  Humans with lifespans in the multiple hundreds of years (John tries to claim that the term years wasn’t “really” meant by the bible authors).  Hailstones are kept in magic warehouses.  A worldwide flood.  A tower that this god is sure could reach it.  Sitting on a mountain would allow you to see all of the earth (that only would work on a flat earth), whales can carry men around inside them for 3 days, etc.    

Then, about women:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”  1 Corinthians 14

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.” 1 Timothy 2

I like that last one.  Eve at least was deceived by a superpowerful being.  Adam just was being an idiot.  And funny how Paul is sure that only childbearing gets a woman saved.  I guess it sucks if you are not fertile.

There is also where women are called property, Exodus 20, where women are given over to rapists to protect some “man of god”, women are given as war booty to be raped (and this god requires some of them too, Numbers 31), women are unclean after having children, etc etc.  One can see the very long list of how women are denigrated, raped, and otherwise harmed per this god here.  One word of caution, the SAB sometimes does push it when it uses some verses to prove a point.  However, most are quite valid.

“It also commands violence.”

Gee, the bible does too. Here’s a great bit by JC.  “Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, ‘Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban’ (that is, an offering to God[e])— 12 then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.”” Mark 7

JC is upset that children aren’t killed for “speaking evil” about their parents.  We also have JC having no problem with killing children, see the flood, the plagues.  It’s okay for a man to be blinded so this god can show off. 

‘I tell you, to all those who have, more will be given; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.’”” Luke 19

Christians will claim that this is *only* a parable.   Hmmm, if so what does this “really” mean then, and do tell who the “nobleman” is in the parable.

“Let me hasten to say that my Muslim acquaintances are as disturbed as I am with these teachings and would never participate in them. The problem is with the teachings of Mohammad, not what all Muslims do.”

Yep, Christians also pick and choose what they do.  Their supposed messiah says that all of the laws in the bible are to be followed, so where are these folks when people are daring to work on the sabbath? 

Of course, *all* of Revelation is advocating violence toward anyone not a Christian. Christians like John don’t much like that book being mentioned.

However, recent events in Pakistan have shown that Muslims in that part of the world follow those teachings of Mohammad.”

Yep, Christians do the same.  We get to see accounts of violence by Christians that fit quite nicely with what this god supposedly commands.  That’s why we have Christians attacking abortion clinics, doctors, homosexual people, killing their own kids because they are sure that this god will heal them or because they think it’s better than to allow the kids to “sin”, etc all because of what the bible says to do.  If we did not have secular laws in the US, I think it is safe to say that things would be quite a bit worse. 

As a man convinced that God exists, I could not embrace a book that taught things I knew were destructive and untrue. When I read the teachings of Jesus Christ, I saw a plea for peace, love, and non-violence. He elevated women and refused to return evil for evil. I saw the striking contrast between the teachings of Mohammad and Jesus Christ.”

Yep, John ignores those bits that don’t confirm with the fantasy he’s invented, a god in his own image.  Just like Muslims.  As shown above, the bible is full of things that are destructive and untrue.  Alas, lots in the bible is “do what I say, not as I do” when it comes to JesusGod and violence. 

“If you have doubts about the teachings of Christ and Mohammad, I would encourage you to get a copy of the Koran and read all of it. Then read Matthew through at least chapter seven.”

Oh, the whole way to chapter 7, eh?  Hmmm, if you read further, you find many of what I’ve cited above.  Seems that someone is trying to cover up how his religion is no better than any one else’s. 

“Although there are many good things in the Koran, it also calls for a cultural dependence on violence and servitude.”

Yep, you can say the same about the bible, with verse after verse about obedience, how great slavery is, and violence (see above).  Happily, we can ignore all religions since no one needs a god, or John, to know what does help humans and civilization. 

There’s plenty of websites that list “difficult passages” of the bible too (evil bible is a good one).  Of course, both sets of believers will try to invent reasons why their “holy books” don’t “really” mean what they literally say.  Do see the Skeptics Annotated Bible and Qu’ran to see just how ridiculous, and similar, both are.

9 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – attempts to declare one religion “better” doesn’t work out so well

  1. Funny, how the two worst religions (historically speaking, judged on death/murder/genocide/mansplaining/obvious contradicitions/bullshit stories/etc. etc.) always seem to be competing for “who is best of the worst.”

    They both suck. Mired in bronze age mythology, lacking credible evidence for any and all claims of fact, and full of crap from top to bottom.

    I’m amazed people still take this stuff seriously.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. There’s the hidden part of the Eden story, too; Eve was deceived first, and Adam second. Basically, he was guilty only of listening to his wife…which is, I suppose, why women have been biblically classed as deceivers, but not men as being credulous.


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