Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – replying to an apologist

I found an apologist trying to edcuate his fellow christians on how to reply to an atheist/ non-christian. Unsurprisingly, his tactics don’t work very well.

My reply:

“PRINCIPLE: If the Bible is the subject of debate, the atheist’s denial of the existence of God spells doom to their every argument.”

Funny how that fails rather amusingly, since the theist has yet to show his god exists at all.

Here’s my response to your supposed discussion:

“BELIEVER: “So, you are saying that what the Bible says here in these passages seems to be arbitrary and/or contradictory, is that right?” (NOTE: Try to use your opponent’s own words here when you are introducing your point.)”

Vel: “Yes, that’s right.”

BELIEVER: “And, at least as far as we can understand it, this presents at least a logical problem and may constitute a moral problem. Would you agree with that?”

Vel: It is a moral problem considering how christians can’t agree on morality, and try to excuse their god from what they claim is objective morality. It is also a problem if the christian claims that this god does not change.

BELIEVER: “I think I see your point. (PAUSE) I notice that you have been quoting from the Bible. In your opinion, who wrote the Bible?””

Vel: funny how we have little idea on who exactly wrote the bible except it was humans. No evidence of the many silly claims that this god wrote/inspired any of it, that Moses wrote any of it (or existed), or that the supposed apostles wrote any of it. There are a few “letters” that a character named paul seems to have written since they are similar in style, but we have no idea who Paul actually was, and his own writings contradict each other e.g. he can’t get his origin story straight.

BELIEVER: “So, if I understand you correctly, your opinion is that God did not inspire the writing of the Bible. In fact, you would say that the Bible came into being independent of God. Is that correct?”

Vel: Yep. Christians also have the problem that you can’t agree on what parts you want to claim are literal, from your god, metaphor, exaggeration, etc. Curious how this god can’t make itself clear if the bible is from your god.

BELIEVER: “Well, if God was not the author of the Bible, then He also did not write the passages that confuse you. God cannot be held responsible for something He did not write. In fact, if God did not write the Bible, then He really should not be a part of any conversation about the Bible. If God did not inspire the Bible, then any difficulties you have with what the Bible says do not involve God at all but involve whoever it was that wrote the passages that confuse you. Bringing up these passages from the Bible, which, according to you, were written by some unknown Jewish men a long time ago, is really a futile exercise. Because what point could we possibly be making – if, in fact, God did not write the Bible.” (PAUSE)

Vel: ROFL. It’s always sweet when the Christian then wants to change his claims. I’m not the one who says that this god wrote anything. YOU do, and since I am working from *your* claims, you have quite a problem. If you want to throw out the bible, then you have nothing to support your claims this god exists at all.

Unsurprisnigly, it’s easy to see that not every word in your bible is true since stars aren’t little lights in a solid dome that can be knocked off, hailstones aren’t kept in magical warehouses, and we have no evidence for the essential events claimed in it. Christians conveniently pick and choose what they claim to understand and not understand in their bible. Those “mysterious” passages often include where this god is being a vicious twit. The very few accurate claims in the bible, such as Herod, Pilate, etc existing do not mean that the rest of this nonsense is accurate. You simply assume so.

I can indeed debate the contents of the bible with a Christian and I can debate any of their many many intepretations of it. That Christians can’t agree on how to interpret the bible also shows that there is no reason to believe some god was involved, especially a omniscient and benevolent one, since these various interpretations have caused Christians to murder each other over them.