Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – the confusion about David

As my readers know, the bible is chock full of contradictions. The entire field of apologetics has been invented to deal with a set of books that were never meant to be together. What is amusing is that this has been a problem with all of the bible, NT and OT.

After going off on a tangent when discussing how rainbows aren’t a christian posession, I’ve ended up with a good amount of nonsense from the story of David, the christian god’s favorite adulterer and victim of this god murdering kids for things they didn’t do. The nonsense in 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel are rather hilarious. (BTW, no memes at the end of this very long post)

I’ll have to thanks CS for recommending I make a post about this. I’ll put the contradictions in bold. he also preferes the KJV, 1611 version, so you’ll see that too. I’m sure CS has no problem with his nonsense being posted here:

“You are a sloppy reader club. The big mouth studio wrestler (Goliath) died by one stone planted in the forehead. Then you had that head thing ….. to strike the fear of God in the adversaries. Such is the mettle of the future king, who at least had a spine.”

poor CS fails yet again:

“48 When the Philistine drew nearer to meet David, David ran quickly towards the battle line to meet the Philistine. 49 David put his hand in his bag, took out a stone, slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead; the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell face down on the ground.

50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David’s hand. 51 Then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him; then he cut off his head with it.” 1 Samuel 17 NRSV

“48 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. 49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.” KJV

The above is just one of the contradictions regarding goliath. The second is where 2 Samuel 21 contradicts the above, and the KJV adds words to the bible to try to hide the contradiction:

“19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Beth-lehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.” KJV

as opposed to the actual words “19 Then there was another battle with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.” 2 Samuel 21

yep, the same guy “4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. 5 And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass. 6 And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders. 7 And the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam; and his spear’s head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.” 1 Samuel 17

curious how two different people can’t kill the same guy.

funny how you can’t kill someone twice.

“Oh my goodness club. You are obtuse, dense, and maybe willfully blind. A common ‘proof text’ used by atheists to try to find mistakes in the Bible.More than one Goliath. ‘Gath’ kind of makes it clear. Genesis says there were ‘giants…..’ obviously more than one.
David did have a sword. IT WAS NOT in his hand. He killed him with the stone just as it reads, THEN put the sword in his hand and cut off the idiots head.

You are embarrassing yourself on this blog with every comment.”

Poor CS, still can’t show I’m wrong and still can’t show his imaginary friend exists.

unsuprisingly, there were not two “goliaths”, but nice try. It’s notable that it was the same character with the spear. No evidence for giants either, dear. (some christians also try to claim that David is “really” Elhanan).

per your bible, David did not have a sword at all. “39 David strapped Saul’s sword over the armour, and he tried in vain to walk, for he was not used to them. Then David said to Saul, ‘I cannot walk with these; for I am not used to them.’ So David removed them. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, and chose five smooth stones from the wadi, and put them in his shepherd’s bag, in the pouch; his sling was in his hand, and he drew near to the Philistine.”

from what your bible says, David took Goliath’s sword and killed him with it, after killing him with the sling stone. it’s great how you try to lie and ignore that your bible has david killing goliath twice.

I’m not embarassing myself at all, dear.

We also can see where CS’s claims fail since “of gath” and “gittite” means the same thing.

Strong’s Concordance: Word
Pronounce: ghit-tee’
Strong: H1663
Orig: patrial from 1661; a Gittite or inhabitant of Gath:–Gittite. H1661
Use: Adjective
Gittite = “belonging to Gath”
1) an inhabitant of Gath

Word: ZB
Pronounce: gath
Strong: H1661
Orig: the same as 1660; Gath, a Philistine city:–Gath. H1660
Use: Proper Name Location
Grk Strong:
Gath = “winepress”
1) one of the five royal or chief cities of the Philistines and the native city of Goliath

“Club:
Read the narrative. He KILLED him w/ one stone in the forehead. He fell down dead. He THEN cut his head off w/ the sword.I’m going with scriptures narrative over your lopsided/ blind/ ignorant eisegesis.”

thanks for lying again, CS.

“48 When the Philistine drew nearer to meet David, David ran quickly towards the battle line to meet the Philistine. 49 David put his hand in his bag, took out a stone, slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead; the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell face down on the ground.

50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David’s hand.

51 Then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him; then he cut off his head with it.”

“You are becoming increasingly annoying. From source material:

‘So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.’

NO SWORD in David’s hand!!!! He smote him Goliath) with one stone. He fell DEAD.He then approached dead Goliath, pulled out Goliath’s sword, and cut the head off the dead man.How dense can you be? Read it: There was no sword in the hand of David.Stop embarrassing yourself and learn how to read.

it’s hilarious how you quote the bible that shows you to be a liar.

it’s great how there is this claim of the sling stone killing goliath:

“50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.”

and then this second killing: “Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. ”

it’s rather funny to see the word “therefore” used, since that means “for that reason”, which makes little sense. Why would David need to kill Goliath with a sword, when he already killed him with a sling stone?

For someone who tries to claim I can’t read, you certainly have no reading comprehension.

“Good gravy club, it’s like explains the color blue to a blind man. Read the narrative. Again. Slowly.Stock with the tried and true Kjv 1611 so we can compare apples and apples. I know this hurts your cause but try.He fell dead. David then cut off the head of dead Goliath. Don’t play enlightened with me. I believe the narrative. You do not. My credibility is not the issue. The issue is your willful blindness.“

thanks for lying again, dear.

“And Dauid put his hande in his bag, and tooke thence a stone, and slang it, & smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunke into his forehead, and he fell vpon his face to the earth.

50So Dauid preuailed ouer the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him, but there was no sword in the hande of Dauid.

51Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines sawe their champion was dead, they fled.”

Unsurprisingly, nothing changes in this version either. Your bible claims that David kills goliath with a sling stone and with a sword.

“Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith.”

You have no crediblity, dear. You are a hilariously bad liar. It’s great how you think you can ignore what your bible says.

“Hey club:Whose sword did David use when lopping off the head of Goliath of Gath?

““Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith.””

Since david didn’t have a sword with him “9 David strapped Saul’s sword over the armour, and he tried in vain to walk, for he was not used to them. Then David said to Saul, ‘I cannot walk with these; for I am not used to them.’ So David removed them. ” , it would have been goliath’s sword.

poor CS, flailing frantically.

“Take a break club. Goliath was a common pagan name, do your research, David did not kill the Gittite. I’d tell you who did, but it’s better you read it yourself.”

Unsurprisingly, nothing supports your lovely new invented garbage that “goliath” was a common name. Curious how the name is not common, the city of origin is the same and the words describing the spear are the same.

“Tell es-Safi, the biblical Gath and traditional home of Goliath, has been the subject of extensive excavations by Israel’s Bar-Ilan University. The archaeologists have established that this was one of the largest of the Philistine cities until destroyed in the ninth century BC, an event from which it never recovered. The Tell es-Safi inscription, a potsherd discovered at the site, and reliably dated to between the tenth to mid-ninth centuries BC, is inscribed with the two names ʾLWT and WLT. While the names are not directly connected with the biblical Goliath (גלית‎, GLYT), they are etymologically related and demonstrate that the name fits with the context of the late tenth- to early ninth-century BC Philistine culture. The name “Goliath” itself is non-Semitic and has been linked with the Lydian king Alyattes, which also fits the Philistine context of the biblical Goliath story.[24] A similar name, Uliat, is also attested in Carian inscriptions.[25] Aren Maeir, director of the excavation, comments: “Here we have very nice evidence [that] the name Goliath appearing in the Bible in the context of the story of David and Goliath… is not some later literary creation.”[26]

Based on the southwest Anatolian onomastic considerations, Roger D. Woodard proposed *Walwatta as a reconstruction of the form ancestral to both Hebrew Goliath and Lydian Alyattes. In this case, the original meaning of Goliath’s name would be “Lion-man,” thus placing him within the realm of Indo-European warrior-beast mythology.[27]

The Babylonian Talmud explains the name “Goliath, son of Gath” through a reference to his mother’s promiscuity, based on the Aramaic גַּת (gat, winepress), as everyone threshed his mother like people do to grapes in a winepress (Sotah, 42b).” – ‘goliath’ wikipedia

david killed the gittite twice and then Elhanan kills the same guy.

“Have a great life club. One day you may thank believers for enduring your rebellion and ignorance.”

As usual, no evidence presented by CS for his claims.

I already have a great life dear, thanks for showing how deceitful and incompetent Christians are. and gee, the usual impotent threats from a failure.

“He fell dead. David then cut off the head of dead Goliath.”

doesn’t match

“Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. “

“WHOSE sword did David use????????”

goliath’s, dear. David had no sword, having left it behind with Saul.

“Finally you got it right.Now read it again from the top.
He SLEW Goliath with the stone.He then SLEW him with sword.
The stone killed him if you know the English language- and stay away from idiotic translations.”

ROFL. It’s great how you now admit that the bible claims David killed Goliath twice, with two different weapons.

Slew: past tense of slay, to kill.

(I suspect CS had no idea what “slew” means. )

“My patience is wearing thin club because you are truly clueless. So here:David told Saul the Lord’s battle with the pagan is NOT with a sword. The big mouthed enemy of Israel would not meet his fate with the sword. Words cannot be plainer, that is, if you believe the narrative in the first place.In plain words, I believe the words of David. He cut off the head off a man who he killed with one stone deep in his forehead.

I’m sure your “patience” is wearing thin since your lies aren’t working, CS. David told Saul no such thing.

This is the only conversation that David and Saul had: “31 When the words that David spoke were heard, they repeated them before Saul; and he sent for him. 32 David said to Saul, ‘Let no one’s heart fail because of him; your servant will go and fight with this Philistine.’ 33 Saul said to David, ‘You are not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him; for you are just a boy, and he has been a warrior from his youth.’ 34 But David said to Saul, ‘Your servant used to keep sheep for his father; and whenever a lion or a bear came, and took a lamb from the flock, 35 I went after it and struck it down, rescuing the lamb from its mouth; and if it turned against me, I would catch it by the jaw, strike it down, and kill it. 36 Your servant has killed both lions and bears; and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be like one of them, since he has defied the armies of the living God.’ 37 David said, ‘The Lord, who saved me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear, will save me from the hand of this Philistine.’ So Saul said to David, ‘Go, and may the Lord be with you!’”

And david tells Goliath that he will cut his head off, which does indeed require a sword. Curious how David ignores his own words with this “45 But David said to the Philistine, ‘You come to me with sword and spear and javelin; but I come to you in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This very day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down and cut off your head; and I will give the dead bodies of the Philistine army this very day to the birds of the air and to the wild animals of the earth, so that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, 47 and that all this assembly may know that the Lord does not save by sword and spear; for the battle is the Lord’s and he will give you into our hand.’”

you seem unable to figure out who david is speaking to.

it’s hilarious how you desperately lie about your bible:

“50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David’s hand. 51 Then David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him; then he cut off his head with it.”

“Club:WHAT translation is your last sentence here, the readers digest version???? lol For certainly scripture says no such thing. Stop bringing your poison.”

Hmm, CS doesn’t recognize his own bible.

““Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines sawe their champion was dead, they fled.”” 1611 KJV

“51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.” – KJV

Curious how that last sentence is right out of your bible.

“So you ARE saying young David killed a giant named Goliath from Gath??? Now it’s those pesky details you just have to deal with. Temember, David SKEW him with the stone first. Be kind of hard to kill a man twice.Scripture is clear club. The battle was not won with the sword. You can NEVER win an argument, any argument, with scripture. You do not have the capacity.

ROFL. David killed goliath of gath two times with two different weapons.

“So Dauid preuailed ouer the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him, but there was no sword in the hande of Dauid.

51Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines sawe their champion was dead, they fled.

The battle was won with the sword since David killed Goliath with a sword. And killed him with a sling stone. You are right, it’s hard to kill a man twice, yet your bible claims that is what happened.

keep going, CS. You are doing so well in showing how christians lie.

“I’m going with scripture club- the cutting off the head was a statement to the pagan Philistines. No sword needed for the death. Interesting too eh, how little David picked up that very heavy sword. Any honest and unbiased person recognizes scripture is accurate, and does not need you to deny David cut the head off a dead man.For Gods sake he said as much- I DONT NEED A SWORD TO END THE LIFE OF THAT MORON AND ANTAGONIZER OF ISRAEL. ( my words- but that’s what he said) Get some rest- you must be wore out from the atheism.

and more lies from CS. Unfortunately for him, David says “46 This very day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down and cut off your head;” which is curious since a sling stone doesn’t cut anything.

“So Dauid preuailed ouer the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him, but there was no sword in the hande of Dauid.

51Therefore Dauid ran and stood vpon the Philistine, and tooke his sword, and drewe it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines sawe their champion was dead, they fled.”

your bible still shows you are a liar. Unsurprisingly, nothing shows that david was “little” or that the sword was heavy. your myth has no info on that.

It’s always sweet to see the cultist claim that anyone who disagrees with their lies is not honest and is biased. Again, more accusations with no evidence.

“Read it and weep club, the words of David: ‘ This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord’s, and he will give you into our hands.Note. ‘I will smite thee AND take thy head.’ AND:‘The Lord saves NOT with sword and spear…..’ ye, one stone through the temple. Dead. Please shut up club.”

Why would I weep when your bible contradicts itself?

“‘ This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.

And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord’s, and he will give you into our hands.”

vs

“Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.”

you fail again, dear. I do enjoy how you reading comprehension is limited. The term “and” indicates separate actions. David killed goliath with the sword and David used the sword to remove goliath’s head.

As you have admitted, it is impossible to kill a man twice, which is what your bible claims.

“49And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

50So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.

51Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.”

It’s always fun when the cultist pleads with me to stop showing how he fails. It’s even more amusing when you can’t read your own bible and see it wasn’t a stone through the temple, but the forehead. (this bit is still in moderation since CS is a coward)

David speaking to Saul: Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.Barehanded club. No sword in the killing of the animals. The whole point was David saw Goliath as a big mouthed thug- like a roaring lion easily to be killed- WITHOUT THE SWORD.‘David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.’ PAUSE HERE CLUB. Pay attention. David PREVAILED OVER THE PHILISTINE.‘Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.”

Note club: David stood over a dead Goliath- the one he smote and slew- you know, the same one he PREVAILED against….Remember the narrative? The lion. The bear. The ones he slew and smote…….Killed them WITHOUT the sword????.Cut the head from the man he killed without the sword. Scripture cannot be plainer. It is only your poisonous intention to read into a narrative that which does not exist.How would the Philistines know the giant simply didn’t have a headache? Ha! How about removing his head to settle that… But the battle was not won with the sword as scripture plainly states.I bet even Ark would agree with me even tho he thinks it fiction.

I guess poor CS thinks more capitals more true. It doesn’t work that way.

yep, still failing, CS. It’s great to see you lie about what your bible says. Your bible is quite plain when it claims that David killed Goliath with a stone, and then then it claims that David used a sword to kill him.

ROFL. Curious how the stone supposedly “sunk” in, which would be rather obvious it wasn’t just a ‘headache”.

So, Ark, do you agree with CS or not?

the battle was won with goliath’s death. Again, your scripture claimed two methods used to kill him. One was a sword.

“Was a sword used to kill the bear and lion……?
Did David NEED to cut off the animals heads to make a point to the other lions??????”

Evidently the sword was necessary to kill Goliath.

Again, CS, your bible has that david killed goliath twice. Once with a stone and again with a sword. Your frantic flailing is amusing and changes nothing. David kills goliath with a sword and cuts off his head.

here’s yet more fail in this story. In chapter 17 we have this:

“55 When Saul saw David go out against the Philistine, he said to Abner, the commander of the army, ‘Abner, whose son is this young man?’ Abner said, ‘As your soul lives, O king, I do not know.’ 56 The king said, ‘Inquire whose son the stripling is.’ 57 On David’s return from killing the Philistine, Abner took him and brought him before Saul, with the head of the Philistine in his hand. 58 Saul said to him, ‘Whose son are you, young man?’ And David answered, ‘I am the son of your servant Jesse the Bethlehemite.’” 1 Samuel 17

and in the chapter before this, Saul knows who david is:

“18 One of the young men answered, ‘I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite who is skilful in playing, a man of valour, a warrior, prudent in speech, and a man of good presence; and the Lord is with him.’ 19 So Saul sent messengers to Jesse, and said, ‘Send me your son David who is with the sheep.’ 20 Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread, a skin of wine, and a kid, and sent them by his son David to Saul. 21 And David came to Saul, and entered his service. Saul loved him greatly, and he became his armour-bearer. 22 Saul sent to Jesse, saying, ‘Let David remain in my service, for he has found favour in my sight.’ 23 And whenever the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, David took the lyre and played it with his hand, and Saul would be relieved and feel better, and the evil spirit would depart from him.” 1 Samuel 16

You have quite a set of problems in just one story, CS.