A particularly amusing Christian, John H. White, has subscribed to the blog. I’ve written a posts that tears apart his nonsense (here). He now writes to me as a comment on this: (BTW, memes at the bottom)
“Here is what I see in our relationship, Vel.
1. You hate God and you hate me.
2. God loves you and I also love you, unconditionally.
Thank you for your comments.”
So I replied to show just how silly claims of unconditional love, or love at all, are for a christian to claim:
Nice of you to subscribe to my blog, John. I don’t hate imaginary nonsense, and since christians can’t agree on what their god wants when it comes to morals, how to save people, baptism, etc, you all worship different imaginary friends. You all claim to have the only “right” one and yet not one of you can do what jesus promises to his true followers.
I can indeed hate you since you are an ignorant bigot that has nothing else. I have no problem hating wannabee nazis, and punching them, literally or figuratively. My heroes are Captain Kirk and Captain America.
You, and every other theist, can’t show that your imaginary friend merely exists, much less that it loves anyone. The claim of unconditional love is always hilarious coming from a christian, when your god has many, many conditions for its love. I’ve read the bible so I know when christians are lying to me about their nonsense.
hmm,how about we list some of those conditions you either are ignorant about, or lie about?
“3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3
“17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5
“18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.” Romans 1
“23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.” John 14
“10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. ” John 15
No christian loves anyone when their religion is built on the hope that anyone who dares disagrees with them deserves eternal torture. You only want obedience. Your god fails at the description of love in 1 Corinthians.
“4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable and does not count up wrongdoing 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”
This god is not patient or kind, murdering Uzzah for keeping its box upright, murdering David’s child for what david did. This god is a petty braggart, arrogant and rude, in the book of job, trying to gaslight Job when Job dares to question this god for allowing his family to be murdered. It only insists on its own way, insisting that if it doesn’t get it, it will murder everyone and eternally torture them. It mind controls people so it can cause harm (Exodus 4, 7, Joshua 11) It is constantly irritable about the smallest infractionsn of its laws, and suposedly keeps books to count up any action it doesn’t like from someone. It has no problem working with satan, in the book of Job, in Luke where there would be no human blood sacrifice by torture if not for satan “entering” Judas, it forces humans to work with satan so its plans work per Revelation 17, and, after this god kills all non-christians, this god has to release satan to corrupt the christians who are left, so it gets one more bloodbath, Revelation 19-20.
it sends lies to people so it has an excuse to harm them, 1 Kings 22. It does not bear all things, believe all things, hopes all things or endures all things. It commits genocide, has no problem with killing people for things they didn’t do and has no problem with slavery.
you are quite a failure, John and your religon, with its many versions, is a fraud.
Club Schadenfreude 
I wonder if it is even possible for them to separate that one god from religion (or denomination of such).
They would have no problem separating any of the hundreds of other gods from the associated religions. They have no belief (nor are they even a bit agnostic) about those (not Christian) gods that have been believed in and worshipped throughout human history (the ones thou shalt not put before theirs, with implied Biblical existence).
1. “You hate God and you hate me.”
2. “God loves you and I also love you, unconditionally.”
Thank you for your comments.”
Seriously? When will the childishness be seen?
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agreed. the delusion that the bible god loves unconditionally is quite prevalent in christians. It’s no more than them trying to convince themselves how special they are, and trying so hard to use their “love” as a weapon.
aka when the abusive parent says “I love you but see what you make me do to you”
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The keystone of the Bible is 1 John 4:8. As defined, a keystone is “something on which associated things depend; basis; foundation”
There are six definitions underlying the English word ‘love.’
The section of the Bible known as 1 John was written in Greek. The two instances of the English word ‘love’ have the role of a noun and the role of a verb.
The verb in the phrase “He who does not love,” is the Greek verb agapaō (ἀγαπάω).
The noun in the phrase “for God is love,” is the Greek feminine noun agapē (ἀγάπη).
Both the verb and the noun are derivatives of the Greek idea of “unconditional love.”
1 John 4:8, the Modern English Version, “Anyone who does not love unconditionally does not know God, for God is unconditional love.”
The English words for blessing and cursing don’t suggest similarity of meaning. The verb “to bless” translates bendecir, “good to say.” The verb “to curse” translates maldecir, “evil (or bad) to say.”
The significance of this simple verse, 1 John 4:8, is it reveals to us our worldview of God and His creation. Learning to love unconditionally is an absolute condition of knowing God.
God unconditionally loves all of mankind.
Many years ago, my role was that of a corporate account executive for an Illinois corporation. My sales territory was the southern tier of the USA, from South Carolina to southern California. There were two things I taught my salespeople. Above all, love the customer regardless the outcome of the sales encounter. Second, discern the difference between objection and rejection.
Objection means “throwing in the way” signifying the prospective client wants more information.
Rejection means “throwing away” signifying the prospective client does not want to know what it is you are offering. In Matthew 10:14, Jesus provides a proper response to rejection.
Psychologists generally agree with God on the need of all mankind to experience and express unconditional love.
Why do I welcome your comments, Vel?
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And yet more fail from John. No matter how you lie, John, per your own bible, your god has no “unconditional love” if we are to consider the bible one book. I do enjoy watching you ignore your own religion when you find it convenient. Shame your god hates lies and liars.
and funny how psychologists don’t agree with you, despite your attempts to appeal to authority. Your salesman nonsense is typical for frauds. If I object to your claims, I reject your claims, and no the client doesn’t want more information You love attention, dear, it’s what any christian who fancies themselves some great “teacher” does. My comments satisfy that since you don’t get it from your fellow christians
your idiot god is no more than an abusive parent “I love you but see what you make me do to you”.
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My reply comes late, Vel. I apologize.
You say God has no unconditional love. You are 100% correct.
In 1 John4:8, the English word ‘love’ is expressed as a noun and a verb. Breaking it down, “He who loves not…” translates “He who does not unconditionally love…” is an action, a choice. The phrase “God is love…” uses the noun for unconditional love.
God does not have a bag or box or pocket with which he carries around unconditional love. He is unconditional love.
When a man or woman loves unconditionally, no betrayal, no deceit, no rejection can nullify unconditional love.
The word unconditional defined: not limited by conditions; absolute.
Synonyms of unconditional: complete, unqualified, categorical.
For example, I unconditionally love you, Vel.
You can choose to hate me, despise me, slander me, reject me, ignore me, turn your back on me, but here I am, an old man who unconditionally loves you.
I learned unconditional love from God, my Heavenly Father with whom I will live eternally. My body will be interred in nearby Rest Haven cemetery. The family plana a post-funeral celebration with my children, grandchildren, and one great granddaughter present.
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Late or early, it’s the same set of nonsense. Funny how you have claimed that this god has unconditional love here “The two most important fundamentals of eternal life is unconditional love and the forgiveness of those who betray, abuse, abandon, or misuse you.”
I do love the incoherent nonsense of this “In 1 John4:8, the English word ‘love’ is expressed as a noun and a verb. Breaking it down, “He who loves not…” translates “He who does not unconditionally love…” is an action, a choice. The phrase “God is love…” uses the noun for unconditional love.”
There is no “noun” for unconditional love. The term used here is agape, which simply means love, nothing about conditions or not assigned to it. And since we can read the bible and see this god’s supposed actions, they aren’t love. It fails love in 1 corinthians.
Funny how this god says that “blaspheming” the holy spirit is a condition of love. If you do it, it is the unforgiveable sin. Again, John simply lies about his bible, or has no idea what it actually says.
I can hate your lies, John. I’ve already rejected those. I’ve never slandered you, you are a fraud and a failure. You are an old man who lies about his god and evidently has no idea what his bible says.
Lying to me shows that your supposed “love” worthless.
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Vel, 40+ years ago I began a range of studies from mechanics to chemicals to atmospheric phenomena. There was scant information in the public domain, by this I mean libraries. There were numerous published scientific research, but those papers were generally inaccessible to the public.
Within my lifetime I witnessed the introduction of and the growth of the ARPANET, a communication methodology developed by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), a research agency of the DOD. The genesis of my own engineering career was in the 1970s.
AARPANET underwent a metamorphosis from government research project to the Internet over which you and I communicate.
From my earliest years in the aerospace industry until today, the pace of communicating intelligence accelerates exponentially. The internet indiscriminately communicates, (with apologies to Clint Eastwood) the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Our contemporary technologies facilitate the differentiation of these.
In this, the Age of Information, ignorance is inexcusable. Ignorance is a conscious choice.
The Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 1:18-20, “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth through unrighteousness. For what may be known about God is clear to them since God has shown it to them. The invisible things about Him—His eternal power and deity—have been clearly seen since the creation of the world and are understood by the things that are made, so that they are without excuse.”
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@John
You wrote: “ignorance is a conscious choice”, yet you equivocated over the issue of the Noachian Global Flood, even asking me about the geology atop Everest and an ocean “in” the earth, which suggests you consider the tale an actual historical event as portrayed in Genesis.
If this is not an example of wilfull ignorance then one can only conclude you are simply indoctrinated.
Which of the two do you consider it is, John?
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Thank you for reading my posts.
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My pleasure.
So, which option do you consider to be correct?
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Funny how I did that too, John. Got my geology degree and did research in academic libraries. Oooh, how rare…not. I know what ARPANET is, and one of my professor’s had a brother that worked for DARPA and I knew him well. So you aren’t impressing anyone.
Yep, if one has access to the internet, ignorance is a conscious choice, and surprise, ignorant theists make that choice all of the time. They lie about scientific research, try to quote mine scientific papers, and funny how the internet makes finding out their lies so much easier. I can even search the bible online and see where a Christian is lying to me when it comes to what it says. Same with other supposed “holy books” and cults.
Every cult makes much the same claim as that nonsense from Romans 1. Each claims that their god is the creator, that I should be able to see their imaginary friend in reality, etc. And surprise, no god, and no god’s wrath, just upset little humans who get angry when someone dares not agree with them and obey them. Your god is as impotent as you are, dear.
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Thank you for your comment, Vel. I am thankful that you follow my posts.
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As usual, John has nothing to show I’m wrong, and has to try to pretend that he is thankful I show that he and his cult are frauds.
It’s also no surprise, that he’s unable to answer the questions put to him by others here. All in all, a typical cultist who has nothing.
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John, do you believe that your god created a place of eternal torment?
If your answer is “Yes,” then please explain why a god of supposedly unconditional love would make avoidance of such a ghastly fate conditional on specific behaviours such as religious faith or acceptance of Jesus.
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well put.
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Thank you for your question. God created the entire known and the unknown universe. His grand plan is a perfect kingdom.
On the matter of places of torment, if you have experienced life in other countries as my wife and I have experienced, you would be astonished at the huge number of places of torment around the globe.
Places of torment are as near as Cuba and Mexico. El Salvador, Peru, Argentina, Colombia, are Venezuela countries with places of torment. Over many years, ending about 8 years ago, I was annually in communist Cuba. Since the death of Fidel Castro, there has been some loosening of freedoms, but it remains a communist ‘toilet on the verge of collapse.
Many of my Cuban friends have passed away. Many others have migrated to Mexico, the USA, and Canada.
In 1986, I was in El Salvador for a couple of weeks. My personal encounters included an elderly woman living in a hole in the ground with a makeshift hut made of twigs and old tarps for cover. Entry was through a crawl space.
Several years ago I ministered to the poor, the fatherless, homeless, and prostitutes in East Dallas. Several areas of Dallas are places of torment.
Living in places of torment is the natural condition throughout the world.
God has a long-range plan to unite people into His Kingdom. You can read about the people left behind in the Bible, Mark chapter 9, verses 42 through 50. A key phrase repeats in verses 44, 46, and 48: where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’
Living eternally in Heaven is a choice.
Living eternally in a place “where the worm [maggot] never dies” is also a choice.
Got forces no one to make choices.
I have witnessed the lame walking, the blind seeing, and prostitutes become like angels. One of the East Dallas former prostitutes is one of my ‘adopted’ daughters.
The two most important fundamentals of eternal life is unconditional love and the forgiveness of those who betray, abuse, abandon, or misuse you.
I have known a few old people who chose to live in misery because they did not trust doctors.
Your eternity is a matter of choice.
No one can force you to choose eternal life and no one can force you to choose eternal misery.
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@John White
A question arises: Why did your god, Yahweh feel the need to create Hell?
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Yep, more baseless assertions from John. This is what all cultists do. What I do find hilarious is that his god is no better than a human being and is utterly impotent. Curious how Christians live and die just like anyone else.
No evidence of any gods nor of any “long range plans”. No hell either, just the sadistic fantasies of adults who get upset when their lies aren’t agreed with.
Unsurprisngly, John doesn’t want to mention where his bible says things that show his claims are false.
“Living eternally in Heaven is a choice.
Living eternally in a place “where the worm [maggot] never dies” is also a choice.
Got forces no one to make choices.”
Nope, it doesn’t say that at all. John has chosen to lie about what his bible actually says. “14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy. 17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”[b] 20 But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me thus?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?” Romans 9
It’s rather notable that John can’t show a single bit of evidence for his lies about seeing the lame walk, the blind see, etc. People can change. No god needed for that either.
As usual, John returns to the vomit of his false claims that his god’s love is “unconditional”. Belief in Christ is a condition. This god choosing you to be able to accept it is a condition. Feeding the hungry, accepting the stranger, etc are all conditions. The idea of hell is based on never forgiving someone.
People who don’t trust doctors and suffer, suffer for a reason. Those don’t trust imaginary nonsense that cultists can’t show exist don’t suffer at all for that. Funny how this god says it has already chosen who goes to hell and who goes to heaven.
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Hi, John. You’ve opted for the “God won’t force anyone to go to heaven” trope, I see. That still doesn’t justify the creation of an “anti-heaven.” Annihilation rather than a miserable eternal life would be a vastly superior option.
(But we can’t have that, can we? “You just die and stay dead” isn’t nearly as effective as hell when it comes to scaring people into the pews, and the contents of their wallets into the collection plates.)
I am not interested in any form of eternal life. Both heaven and hell sound ghastly. If your god were to deliberately sustain someone’s existence indefinitely, and allow them to remain in a situation that was causing them pain, your god is responsible for their pain because it’s the one with the power. (This is Management 101 stuff: Responsibility is connected to authority, and cannot be delegated to someone who lacks the power to alter a situation.) If the pain of this hypothetical person were to endure for eternity, that would be an infinite amount of pain caused by a being that had the ability to alleviate it – but chose not to. In other words, a god of infinite evil.
Keep making excuses for your evil little god-thing, John. It’s… amusing.
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it always bemuses me that heaven is considered a thing to be wanted by these cultists.
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Can we get a “in my parochial opinion” from condescending John White?
Many (certainly not all, as John implies) psych majors also agree that religion is a bad thing. Some are even, God forbid!, atheist.
Maybe ol’ John will manage to inform us of something we do not already know about religious scripture, the various (often cherry picked) meanings of words, and what the hundreds of different Bibles have written in them, much of which (again many) Christians disagree over.
Just “prove it.”
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