while showing how yet another apologist fails, it occured to me:
Why doesn’t paul know anything about the events that supposedly happened at the resurrection? They were supposedly seen far and wide, and yet no mention of an major earthquake, no mention of the sky darkening, and of course no mention of dead jews wandering around Jerusalem.
this would have been a perfect place to mention this:
“3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, (OH HEY AND ABOUT THOSE DEAD JEWS) 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”
Club Schadenfreude 
Taking money out of preaching would lead to boring pastors only left to lie to the sheep
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yep, no flash from the con artists
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And the way some of them provide great entertainment here
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it’s always amusing when half the christains claim that their god cant’ be used as a vending machine and the other have are sure it is exactly that.
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I’m pretty sure it will suck either way Mak. But, I do like the idea of taking the money away, and see how devoted they really are.
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Though what will become of prosperity believers?
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The Gospels were written after Paul’s writings, so when they fabricated the words and deeds of Jesus, this took place after Paul had finished his writings.
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All of it is fabricated. A pile of invented nonsense that you, and all christians, pick from to invent your own jesuses.
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I appreciate that you enjoy discussing these issues, but you’re really throwing some unsubstantiated claims around. For example, how do you know that all of the Christian faith is fabricated?
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Because there is no evidence for it. And you have claimed this “fabricated the words and deeds of Jesus,”
it seems you want to claim that some things are fabricated and that something aren’t and have no way to show which is what. This isn’t anything new for theists, they all pick and choose what they want to claim as true.
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And who wrote the epistles? You know they only surfaced after Marcion discovered /collected them and began distributing them as part of the Canon he produced.
It has been suggested this was what prompted the Church to produce its own Canon.
Furthermore, there is no firm historical record of the epistles prior to Marcion.
Now that raises some very interesting questions, don’t you think?
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@ClubSchadenfreude
I believe the words and deeds of Jesus in the Gospels are fabricated. I also believe the overarching story of Christ’s life and ministry are true. I recommend you check out some authors in Biblical studies, I’d start with The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus, by Dale Allison.
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Again, you have simply invented what you want to believe. If the details are fabricated, then how do you know the “overarching” story is true, or even what it is?
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You seem to take a very simplistic view of history.
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Again, if the details are fabricated, then how do you know the overarching story is true or even what it is? That you try to claim that I “take a very simplistic view of history” is showing you have no idea what history is. How do I take this supposed “very simplistic view of history”? Where is some “complex view” that allows for baseless events to be claimed ot have happened?
You seem to be unable to answer those questions. I know history very well, including christian history. You seem to be ignorant about that as well as ignorant about the actual history of the middle east. No once noticed the supposed events around this jesus christ character: no major earthquake, no darkening of the sky, no dead jews wandering the streets of roman-occupied Jersualem. Pilate didn’t, the jewish priests didn’t, Paul didn’t, and no other mention of these events happen outside of the bible. Ancient historians mentioned what christains believed, but never said what they believed was true.
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Allison is a Christian.
His worldview is underpinned primarily by his faith based beliefs.
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What is your point?
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His perspective is underpinned by supernaturalism, therefore not credible.
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Hmmm…. It sounds to me like you’re begging the question. His perspective is not credible simply because he disagrees with you?
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No, his perspective is not credible because it is underpinned by supernaturalism for which there is no evidence, especially the tale of the resurrection of the Bible character Jesus of Nazareth.
I imagine you hold similar perspectives regarding Islam or Hinduism or LDS?
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I would argue that there is evidence for the supernatural. The long rout is N.T. Wright’s book The Resurrection of the Son of God, a shorter rout would be any of the intelligent design videos on YouTube.
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“I would argue that there is evidence for the supernatural”
You would, would you?
Excellent! I am always up for a sound intellectual discussion.
Feel free to present any evidence that demonstrates the veracity of your claim.
The floor is yours…
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Oh, I forgot to add… On the subject of supernaturalism for which you assert there is evidence, I presume therefore you accept the supernaturalism found within Islam and Hinduism etc?
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and what is this spuernatural evidence for either the resurrection or creationism? or anything supernatural at all? the chritsian bible has that true followers of jesus will be able to do miracles like he does in the books. Not one self-professed christian can do anything like that.
Wright claims that christians unanimously believed in the resurrection story. He does not show that it happened nor can he show that christians agreed on *how* jesus resurrected. Like other apologists, he cannot show that Jesus christ son of god existed, nor that there was any “empty tomb”, or any of the events claimed around that character.
Creationism has no evidence for it and theists, including christians, cannot agree on how it happened. That’s what happens when you have no evidence for your claims. Theists cannot explain why their god is evidenly an incompetent creator, or simply malicious, since it fails so badly in its supposed “creation”. The sun gives humans and other animals cancer. If this god is omnipotent, then it didn’t have to allow that. DNA fails often adn horribly. Again, if omnipotent, this god didn’t have to allow that. The human body guarantees that thousands of humans choke to death every year. This god didn’t have to allow that either.
Theists will often invent a “fall” to explain why reality isn’t “perfect” like their myths claim it once was. This means that they have no idea what their god actually intended, assuming their god exists. They have no evidence of this supposed “perfect” world. What theists have is not “intelligent” at all.
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his perspective is a baseless opinion. If there are no facts supporting it, then disagreeing with a baseless claim is the logical response.
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Philip Mast has an almost new post up in which he makes you the subject.
You are the Commenter, the Skeptic ..
I laughed!
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yep, he’s such a sad little fellow. Still no evidence for his imaginary friend.
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