Christians often try to be clever with something like this, recently posted here by a rather ignorant person, “thinking in darkness”:
(memes below, btw)
“Hi CS, I found this statement interesting, “In that you can’t show your god merely exists, much less that it is what you claim, you have nothing.”
I would like you to try to show/prove that you exist.”
My response: well, there you have it, this person has shown that their god is very unlikely to exist. Since there is plenty of evidence for me, and none for your god, you have even less reason to believe in it.
I’d be happy to give you a good pinch to show you I exist. Of course, you could deny that and pretend that it was only you thinking you were pinched. This ends up going down the rabbit hole of solipsism, and at the bottom of that hole, there is no god either, only the mind of the person who invented it.
The idea that their god must exist if it can’t be shown not to is how theists all fail. Nothing requires their god, and since they can’t show that their god does exist, there is no reason to assume that it does. This is simply the usual attempt by the theist to ignore the fact that they are the ones with the burden of providing evidence for their assertions.
In doing a bit of research on this concept, I found an AI generated summary that I found interesting (from google’s AI)
“Proving God’s existence differs fundamentally from proving a human’s, as the former relies on philosophical arguments, designed complexity, or subjective experience, whereas the latter is established through direct, empirical observation. God is generally treated as non-testable by science, whereas human existence is verifiable via physical presence.
Proving God Exists
Intelligent Design/Cosmological Arguments: Arguments suggest the complexity of the universe (eyes, ears, bird wings) implies an intelligent designer, rather than random chance.
Cosmological Arguments: The existence of the universe itself requires a cause, arguing that everything that exists must have a cause, leading back to a creator.
Ontological Argument: A philosophical argument that defines God as the greatest conceivable being, suggesting that to exist in reality is greater than to exist only in the mind.
Inner Experience: Proponents cite a universal human, even atheistic, feeling that a higher power or creator exists.
Proving a Human Exists
Empirical Observation: Human existence is verified through direct, sensory evidence—seeing, hearing, and touching a physical person.
Scientific Measurability: Human life is material and measurable, fitting within the realms of biology and physics, unlike typically proposed definitions of God.
Testability: Proving a human exists is straightforward, testable, and verifiable, lacking the extraordinary burden of proof often required for supernatural claims.
Key Contrasts
Burden of Proof: While human existence is assumed, the burden of proof lies heavily on those claiming a god exists.
Materiality: Humans are material, testable beings; God is largely considered a metaphysical, non-testable concept.
Nature of Evidence: Evidence for human existence is empirical and instantaneous; evidence for God is often seen as subjective, historical, or philosophical”
You can take that with as much “salt” as you choose.
I also found this interesting on Free Inquiry: “We Know That God does Not Exist by Gary Whittenberger” a riff on the problem of evil and morality.
So, still no evidence for any gods. Plenty of evidence for me, and this christian can’t show that I *don’t* exist. Just like they can’t show that other gods don’t exist, etc. Proving a negative is very hard. I’m curious if she’s up to the task.
Club Schadenfreude 
Love the meme with the surgical robot. I had a hernia fixed a few years back by a surgeon who used one of those, and it went great! Somehow their god never seems to fix hernias, go figure.
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Yeah, we would all be convinced if Christians headed for the hospitals and started healing everyone! That would be proof of something. So, Christians, here you go: head for the hospitals and do your works. What? Oh, you believe it but only in a tent revival where someone can scream and collapse.
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Yes, when they pray for amputees and their limbs grow back, with actual documentation of it, they’ll have my attention.
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I really don’t care if those people believe I exist or not. But if someone asks me to prove it, by asking are they not demonstrating belief?
I have seen some interesting things with AI. Does AI exist?
“Slide to the right to prove you are not a robot.”
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I definitely plan to read that article We Know That God Does Not Exist, thank you for sharing it CS, but for now I wanted to make a reply to your post.
It seems to me that the force of what the AI is saying is found here, “Burden of Proof: While human existence is assumed, the burden of proof lies heavily on those claiming a god exists.” I find this statement to be begging the question in favor of Atheism. I affirm that God’s existence is flagrantly obvious from the creation. I affirm that human existence as part of that creation, proves God’s existence. I maintain that evolution is an obvious farce, and that everyone can see this fact simply by looking out their window.
Quite simply, Atheism is a religion that science has disproved. But Atheists seem to just ignore this fact and go on claiming that “God is not necessary for anything.” Face the fact, God is necessary of everything.
Since you shared a very interesting article with me, I’ll return the favor. Perhaps you would like to make a blog post in response to this at some point:
https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/fossil-record/where-are-all-pre-flood-human-fossils/
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Evolution is a fact. From generation to generation, organisms that are a better match for their environments are more likely to reproduce than organisms that are a poor fit. It’s a tale of survivors, where the ones that acquire food and protect themselves will live long enough to have offspring.
Evolution is about generational changes to existing organisms. It does not purport to explain the origins of life. That is a topic that is relatively new and still being researched.
But if you insist that a god exists, where is it? I don’t see any evidence of it. Show. Me. Your. God. In person, right here, in the physical world. You can’t just point at something and claim that your god created it. First we locate the god, and only then can we figure out whether or not it created something.
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We can go back and forth saying evolution is a fact, and saying that it is not. So what I would like to ask you, is what books have you read from the young earth creationist side? Have you looked at the science arguments against evolution? Here is one such argument, I’d like to get your thoughts on it:
https://answersingenesis.org/is-god-real/is-there-really-god/
As for me, I’ve read Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne, and I was not surprised to see that he has no evidence for evolution whatsoever. Evolutionists just keep repeating their beliefs, without giving any scientific evidence for them. That’s what Coyne does, because that’s what he has to do, because there is no scientific evidence for evolution.
You asked why you can’t see God, here’s the reason:
18 Moses said, “Show me your glory, I pray.” 19 And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you the name, ‘The LORD’; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live.” The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Ex 33:18–20.
The sad irony is that you are trying to test God, but it is God who is testing you. And you are failing that test:
Jeremiah 17:10 10 I the LORD test the mind and search the heart, to give to all according to their ways, according to the fruit of their doings. The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Je 17:10.
God doesn’t let you see him because he is testing your spirit. The question is, will you do what’s right when “no one is looking,” when you can’t see God watching you? And so far your answer to that question is that you will do evil if God is not right there visible to you. You know God exists and you know Jesus Christ is God. Embrace these facts and save yourself from punishment.
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You are an astonishingly ignorant person. I’ve read many books on young earth creationism and old earth creationism and theistic evolution. The one thing that is consistent with them is ont one of them has any evidence for their claims. That’s because they claims start off with “god” and surprise, not one of them can show this entity exists at all, much less that it has “created” anything.
the frauds at AiG are typical and that “argument” fails hilariously. It starts with the first cause argument aka the cosmological argument. Nothing shows that your god is needed as the first cause. Then it goes and claims that gee, the bible claims this god knows all things. Yet, the bible shows that it doesn’t, since this god must go places to find things out. So it isn’t omniscient. Omniscience also doesn’t mean intelligent, and again, nothing shows that any intelligence is needed for reality to exist.
Then this “argument” claims that there is “intelligent design” the teleological argument for God. There is no evidence for any design at all. There are claims that the universe “looks” designed, but that doesn’t mean it was. And considering how the sun gives us cancer, DNA fails often and horribly, and the human body guarantees that thousands choke to death every year, your god is either an idiot or malicious when it “designs” something.
It’s lovely to see ignorant cultists make claims like “It is the sheer universality of perfection, the fact that everywhere we look, to whatever depth we look, we find an elegance and ingenuity of an absolutely transcending quality, which so mitigates against the idea of chance.” Funny how there is no “perfection” nor can Christians even agree on what that would be. Denton is a crank, nothing more and he has no evidence for his claims. It’s hilarious how he tries to claim there is a “designer” and yet can’t show one exists, of any kind. It’s notable how AiG simply lies about Dawkins too, with their quote mining. They have this “We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully ‘designed’ to have come into existence by chance.”
and the entire quote is “”We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully ‘designed’ to have come into existence by chance. How, then, did they come into existence? The answer, Darwin’s answer, is by gradual, step-by-step transformations from simple beginnings, from primordial entities sufficiently simple to have come into existence by chance. Each successive change in the gradual evolutionary process was simple enough, relative to its predecessor, to have arisen by chance. But the whole sequence fo cumulative steps constitutes anything but a chance process, when you consider the complexity of the final end-product relative to the original starting point. The cumulative process is directed by nonrandom survival.””
You and your fellow Christians are liars. Curious how your god hates lies and liars.
This garbage tries the usual lies about “information”. This shows the usual ignorance of creationists and alas ,for them, new information is added by mutation, intermixing of DNA from viruses, etc. There are no ‘kinds’ as creationists claim, and it’s notable how these frauds lie about what their bible actually says. It’s also notable how “Lee Spetner” is a typical creationist, having no background in biology but is in fact an engineer and phycist who works on electromagnetism. Creationists often try this, to claim that someone is a “scientist” to try to get people to believe their lies. They just don’t mention that their “scientist” knows nothing about biology, chemistry etc. This is like claiming a good car mechanic would be the same as a good pediatrician when it comes to treating a child. The same applies to Werner Gitt, who also has nothing to back up his claims.
Then, we have the typical ignorance of creationists, their attempts to claim that there is “irreducible complexity” which is nonsense. They get this from their pet liar, Michael Behe, who failed hilariously in the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial with his baseless claims. I do love their attempt at claimng that there is no way to get a mosquito from a squished mosquito, which shows how they have no idea how evolutionary theory works. If you don’t put any energy into a system, yep, it does remain chaotic. Happily, earth isn’t a closed system. And gee, yet again, more quote mining of Dawkins.
That creationists have no idea how evolutionary theory works is just precious. It isn’t “random” as they claim since nothing is. The laws of physics always have a hand. Their claims from Gitt show just how stupid he is when he simply makes baseless assertions without evidence. He offers a false dichotomy, based on his own ignorance.
Then we finaly come to the crux of the lies of creationism: they can’t show that their imaginary friend exists. No reason to think a god is needed and exist eternally when we know that the laws of physics actualy exist and they can be eternal. These frauds end up with the whine that “atheists don’t want anything beyond nature” when creationists can’t show that their god simply exists. They insist that their god “owns” humanity, which is just amusing baseless presupposition. They try so hard with the transcendental argument for god, that reason “needs” their god, and yet can’t show it merely exists.
and finally, the lovely special pleading that all cultists use: everything needs a cause, except for their imaginary friend. It’s great when all cults make the same claim “Only the Bible explains why there is beauty and ugliness; why there is life and death; why there is health and disease; why there is love and hate. Only the Bible gives the true and reliable account of the origin of all basic entities of life and the entire universe.”
just change the name of the cult’s book.
You lie hilariously when you claim there is no evidence for evolutionary theory. I always enjoy when a Christian lies and does so incompetently. I’ve read Coyne’s book took and surprise, there is lots of evidence in it. Do you think no one else has read the book to know you are lying? You can see the evidence summarized in the Wikipedia article about the book and here is a sample:
“Chapter Two, “Written in the Rocks”, examines evidence of evolution from paleontology. Coyne highlights several transitional fossils, notably Tiktaalik, a transitional form between lobe-finned fish and amphibians discovered by his University of Chicago colleague Neil Shubin in 2004.[3] He traces the history of fossils showing the evolution of birds from theropod dinosaurs, starting with the discovery of Archaeopteryx in 1861 and culminating with several fossil discoveries made in the 1990s such as Sinornithosarus millenii,[4] Microraptor gui[5] and Mei long.[6] The evolution of whales from artiodactyls is remarkably well-preserved, as documented by Indohyus, Pakicetus, Ambulocetus, Rhodocetus, Basilosaurus and Dorudon.[7] Many of these fossils were predicted to exist before they were discovered, an example of evolution’s predictive power. The transitional fossils in human evolution are discussed in Chapter Eight.
Chapter Three, “Remnants: Vestiges, Embryos and Bad Design”, examines examples of bad design in nature. Coyne looks at vestigial traits like the wings of flightless birds, the eyes of sightless animals, and the pelvic girdle and hind-limb bones of whales. He also looks at atavisms, the spontaneous recurrences of ancestral traits, such as horses born with extra toes. Evolution predicts the existence of pseudogenes, segments of DNA which were functional genes in an ancestor but have been inactivated by mutation. This prediction is confirmed, as the human genome contains thousands of pseudogenes. An example is the pseudogene for L-gulonolactone oxidase, the enzyme which produces Vitamin C in most mammals but not in the haplorhine suborder of primates, which includes humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans (hence why people must consume Vitamin C to avoid scurvy).[8][9] That the same pseudogene is present in all these species is evidence that they share a recent common ancestor.[10] Evolution makes another testable prediction: since humans are more closely related to chimpanzees than gorillas, and to gorillas than orangutans, the pseudogene should be most similar between humans and chimpanzees, less similar between humans and gorillas, and least similar between humans and orangutans (it acts as a molecular clock). That is what is found. Other species have pseudogenes: dolphins have pseudogenes for olfactory receptor proteins which they inherited from their land-dwelling ancestors, and the platypus, which lacks a stomach, still has pseudogenes for digestive enzymes.[11][12] Finally, he examines evidence from embryology, such as the existence of lanugo in the fetuses of many mammals, including humans. (Lanugo also appears in fetal whales and dolphins, further evidence they are descended from land-dwelling mammals.) Coyne begins the chapter by citing Theodosius Dobzhansky’s quote that “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”, and concludes that vestigial traits, atavisms and pseudogenes can only be explained by evolution by natural selection”
It’s hilarious how you make up lies about why you can’t show your god exists. It’s lovely how the bible fails since in Exodus this god has lunch with Moses and the elders: “9 Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. “
So which part of exodus is the lie? And it’s great how this god has no problem being tested per the bible, and Christians are too ignorant to know that since they don’t read their bible. This god says to test it in Malachi 3, and is tested by both Gideon and Thomas. Your excuses fail miserably again.
BTW, why would an “omniscient” being need to test anyone? By definition, it already knows every answer. Isn’t it omniscient
It’s hilarious since your whine about “when no one is looking” fails if your god is omniscient. Your ignorance fails yet again. No, dear we don’t know your imaginary friend exists, so your lies told to yourself to salve your failure crash and burn again. Even Christians don’t all agree that your jesus is “god”. Astreja never says she would do “evil”, and again, you cultists can’t even agree on what “evil” is.
thanks for showing yet again how your cult depends on lies, ignorance and fear. Your sadistic little fantasies will never come true.
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(Replying to Thinking in the Darkness, as there’s no “Reply” button on her post)
First of all, I’m not interested in reading creationist books, not even as library loans. I already have a backlog of fiction to read.
I reject the usual Biblical excuses for not being able to see your alleged god. If that’s truly the state of affairs (although I rather doubt it), the possibility of me developing religious faith will remain at zero to the end of my life. If it isn’t real to me, I just can’t believe in it.
And why would I try to “test” something that I’ve always seen as fictional?
“You know God exists and you know Jesus Christ is God. Embrace these facts and save yourself from punishment.”
You, madame, disgust me. Fuck you and fuck the fictional Holy Spook, too. You have borne false witness against me by publicly making a false claim about what I supposedly “know.” This is something that I never, ever forgive, and from this moment onward you are my enemy. No apology will be accepted.
Your threat against me has also been noted, and I think it would be a jolly good idea for Real Life™ to smack you around until your faith is just a distant and embarrassing memory.
(Vel, I wouldn’t be the least bit upset if you gave “Thinking” the bum’s rush. 😀 )
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yep more baseless assertions from a cultist. how unsurprising, and it’s grea how you cultists won’t accept assertions from each other, just as if you know that baseless assertions are worthless.
You also have no idea what a “begging the question” fallacy is just like you have no idea what evolutionary theory is.
Let’s look at your idiotic article from the liars at AiG.
“If there really were a global flood as described in Genesis, what would we expect to see today? We would see billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth. And that is exactly what we do see. But among these rock layers, human fossils are few and far between, with all known specimens coming from post-flood rock layers. Where are all the fossils of pre-flood humans (as well as birds and mammals)?”
Unsurpsingly, this immediatly shows how ignorant these people are. If their magic flood was as they claimed, there would be one single layer, not many as we see in reality. You can do an experiment yourself to show how this would work. Put in various sizes of rocks and soil into a clear container with water and shake violently. Let it settle out. You will see one massive layer that is sorted within itself, with the coarser particles at the bottom and the finer on top. Now, take the same container and fill it with water, and pour these sediments into it gradually and occasionally quickly. This will show the layers we see in reality, each sorted within itself, and not mixed with the others. YOu can watch this experiment done here on these very excellent videos from potholer54: Noah’s flood debunked, and part 2. .
We see fossils as evolutionary theory predicts, sorted by complexity in the geologic column. If the flood happened, we would see fossils sorted by their hydraulic characteristics, so similarly shaped and sized things would be together. We don’t see that at all. We also don’t see any evidence of “fountains of the deep” or enough rain to make 28,000+ feet of water in 40 days. Simple physics shows that would have boiled Noah and the animals alive with the heat generated. There is also the problem with these liars and their claims that the flood was violent and supposedly ripped animals apart, but then they claim there was rapid deposition which didn’t do that. Which is the lie and which is the “right” answer? Why can’t they explain how limestone formed in their idiotic claims?
it’s hilarious how christian creationists can’t agree on how this nonsense happened. That’s what happens when you have no evidence for this nonsense at all. You are passing along lies and ignorance in your laziness.
Atheism isn’t a religion any more than clear is a color. I always enjoy when christians seem to think eing a religion is a bad thing, when they try this argument. Atheism is a single conclusion about a single item: there is no evidence for any god or gods. It is not a system of beliefs.
so you’ve failed again, dear, and you have shown how your cult depends on ignorance, fear and laziness to exist.
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The comparison between proving “god” exists and proving a human exists is foolish. It would only apply if there was even a scintilla of evidence for “god” – footprints, or strange signs in the sky, or sounds in the night. There is absolutely no evidence of any kind that a “god” exists (which is what “philosophica/subjective evidence means). On the other hand you can prove your own identity (I have just been through this) with superabundant evidence – birth certificate, marriage cert, passport, driving licence, medical card, house mortgage, school and university certificates, photographs, radio interviews, childrens records, written works, employment records, census record, electoral record, etc etc etc. By contrast neither “god” not “jesus” have a single piece of evidence. Not one. And yes, we don’t have as much evidence for historical characters as I do for myself, but significant figures like Roman Emperors and Egyptian pharaohs and British monarchs, and significant public servants/soldiers/writers in each of these cultures, have a great deal of evidence for their existence.
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My reply to Astreja has vanished?
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Weird – I saw it there this afternoon but I don’t see it now.
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