Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Part 10 – and I’m done …. for now

fireworks-clip-art

It is finished!  In this last installment of addressing a particular TrueChristiantm’s claims, we have some of the most ridiculous claims.  I’m not sure if he thought this was the best he had and he wanted a “strong” finish or if it’s just coincidence.  Again, here is the pdf truechristian post 19-23

(EDIT: 02-21-13- our Christian guest has now said that he had put up his original post a “very long time ago” on one of his multiple blogs: http://ryftkohiahpapers.wordpress.com/29-2/  Well, a “very long time ago” isn’t quite true and he has altered his post from the original as expected[alas he still gets things wrong], but what’s one more bit of nonsense? )

I would like to welcome my new blog followers, including some Christians and other believers in the supernatural!  Please feel free to comment. I have no problem in approving comments that may disagree with what I’ve posted. 

Today we have the claim that fossils aren’t arranged by complexity and it’s just a conspiracy by textbook illustrators to put the trilobite at the near bottom (Cambrian, where cool things like the Burgess and Emu Bay shales are).  For it has the “most complex eye structure ever in the world”!  First, for this to even have a small chance of working, one has to pick a trilobite; the little buggers were around for 270 million years in many different species. Then, you define what you mean by “most complex”.  As it stands, the mantis shrimp is in the running for most abilities shoved into an eye.  And even in the Cambrian, the anomalocaris had much better eyes than the trilobite.

Compound eyes like the trilobites are good at seeing motion but not much else. There is nothing to suggest they are the “most complex eye structure in the world”. They aren’t even more complex than humans. Humans have blind spots but other benefits. Octopi eyes don’t have those.   

Eyes are very useful, but are not necessary as we see in beasties that lose their usefulness when living in caves. (nice scientific paper on the subject; and a slightly less technical article.)  There are some critters that haven’t gone beyond eyespots, that only determing light vs dark.  Planaria (the cute little guys that can be made to grow two heads), are just doing fine with eyespots.  They simply do not need anything more effective in the environment they exist in.    

More false claims continue but now we’re in the later eras.  We are asked if we know that there are dinosaur remains found with humans, that human remains have been found under dino remains.  Our TrueChristiantm mentions the KBS tuff. This is a layer of sediment (mostly compacted volcanic ash, that’s what “tuff” is)  that contains human remains in northern Kenya. I can find no reports of evidence of dinosaur remains in this layer at all. 

1. Gorilla 2. Australopithecus 3. Homo erectus 4. Neanderthal (La Chapelle aux Saints)5. Steinheim Skull 6. Euhominid - Neanderthal entry, wikipedia

1. Gorilla 2. Australopithecus 3. Homo erectus 4. Neanderthal (La Chapelle aux Saints)
5. Steinheim Skull 6. Euhominid – Neanderthal entry, wikipedia

Mixed soils are difficult to date and one has to be sure that one gets the youngest of the mix since that will be the date of the soil, not the individual constituents.  Young earth creationists get all a-twitter when they see discrepancies in dating, but what they ignore is that even if they are off, these dates are still far far older than their 6000 years and it was no creationist who discovered the discrepancy, it was scientists.

That holds the same for the hoax of the Piltdown Man and mistake of the Nebraska Man, science was what figured out the hoax, not a prayer or a divine revelation. He claims that “every link between man and monkeys has been proven a deliberate fraud”. This is a direct lie and it is not surprising that he makes a claim without any evidence to back his claim up. He’s also simply just so sure that Neanderthal Man is “100% ape” which again is untrue.

Dinosaurs are also claimed to provide proof themselves against being millions of years old.  Our TrueChristiantm claims that blood cells and DNA were found in dino remains. He is, as usual, bastardizing some real research.  There have been a couple of finds with soft tissue preserved. This does not mean mummified dino meat, like one might find on a frozen mammoth; it means impressions and films of proteins.  One of the first discoverers, Mary Schweitzer, is a Christian and finds young earth creationists silly when it comes to their claims.  A second find is discussed here. What has been discovered is proteins that appear to be from hemoglobin, a protein in blood. Not cells, not DNA, only proteins that *may* be hemoglobin.  One study has put the existence of DNA to about 6.8 million years and then it’s completely broken down. It is notable that our TrueChristiantm  finds he must insist that his claim is “no lie”.  Unfortunately for him, it is.

There are is no evidence for his claim that whales and “60 ft wingspan pterodactyls” were found in diatomaceous earth. Nor is there any evidence for fossil human hands and ichthyosaurs found by “Jamie Gutierrez” in South America. There is an old website that has claimed that they have the fossils but as always creationists, Carl Baugh, often hide their mistakes (it’s no longer on his site) when their lies aren’t being accepted blindly (even by other Christians). 

In 22, we have our TrueChristiantm yet again at claiming that only his interpretation of the bible is the “true” one.  He has not demonstrated this as being true. 

Almost there! In #23, our TrueChristiantm advises the reader to watch the Hovind videos, especially the 6th one.  Considering what we’ve seen here is exactly what you’ll find on it, it may not be worth the bother.  The videos can be entertaining to a point but when a man is intentionally lying to children, it gets disgusting very quickly. 

And as a fitting end to this theist’s long list of false claims, we have the usual claim that atheists are just rebels who don’t want to believe in our poor TrueChristiantm’s god. Ah if it were only that easy. If I thought this god existed, it’d be great fun to be a rebel against such a ridiculous, impotent thing. It’d be like Captain American against Red Skull or Captain Kirk against the Klingons.  I have no problem believing my professors and, ahem, National Geographic. They consistently present facts that can be double-checked by anyone who wants to. As been demonstrated in all of these posts, they aren’t the ones lying. 

Amusingly, last week’s Billy Graham column did the exact same thing as our TrueChristiantm did above with the exact claims of  “Oh those rebellious atheists”.  Poor Billy, he also used Pascal’s Wager and only deserves laughter. There is no difference between supposed “professional” theist and what we’ve seen through this 10 part series.  They both fail equally.    

As a rather pitiful Parthian shot, Jesus is invoked as our Christian guest claims to have “proven” that his messiah existed.  He has failed at that too, though I have asked him for his best proof.  He’s used the same sad old claims from Josephus, Tacitus, etc.  All of those sad little claims that fail in so many ways and that have been addressed so many times by non-Christians.  

All of our TrueChristianstm claims have been refuted, though he was sure that this could never ever happen.  My claims have been supported, as again, our TC was sure could never happen.  He ends up in a mire of personal attacks and nothing else. I guess he’s just as bad a prophet as he has proven a convincing Christian. 

This is the end of this particular addressing of creationist nonsense but it is not the last time it will be done.  Religion is a potent drug.  It feels good to believe that there is some intelligent being that agrees with you running the universe.  Unfortunately it there is nothing to confirm that desire.

For your viewing ease, links to the prior posts in this series

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6 responses to “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Part 10 – and I’m done …. for now

  1. This has been an entertaining and enlighting journey. They say every time you show a theist argument to be wrong they create make yet another ridiculous claim that you didn’t interpret it right or one such thing.
    What does our friend find wrong with rebellion? The god the theists have tried to present to us deserve nothing from us but rebellion and if such a god were to even exist then we would rebel against the theists for presenting it in such a bad light for a good god.

  2. Fireworks, bells and whistles and cheers! Club, I congratulate you! Few can honestly say they’ve traveled the road that you just have. I stand in awe…. plus I’ve copy n’ pasted every one of these articles into my war chest of knowledge.

  3. I can’t pretend I have read your whole series….I just sorta skim a bit. I did go to the link about the Rev. Billy Graham.
    I read this:

    “My real question for you is, why do you reject hell, and God and Jesus? The reason, I suspect, is because you want to run your own life.”

    And I thought…….you got that right! I rather like that idea. 🙂

    • skimming is about all it’s worth. I have an insanely boring job and far too much time to write.

      I agree, I do want to live my own life. Certainly not told what to do by people who think gods are real.

  4. Pingback: Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Apologetics, the real alchemy | Club Schadenfreude

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