Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – insisting on apologies for telling the truth

no-evidence-no-respectThere’s an op-ed by Christine Flowers, a conservative Catholic with a problem. She isn’t happy that her religion is presented in a less than favorable light by some emails that are supposedly from the Clinton campaign, released by Wikileaks. She demands that Ms. Clinton apologize for what one of her staffers said. Let’s see how this plays out.

Ms. Flowers is aghast that anyone would point out that her church is rather medieval in its outlook, and sophist in its approach. She, like many American Roman Catholics, has invented her own Catholicism, picking and choosing what she obeys. However, if you show that she and her church are without base for their claims and hypocrites, then the wagons get circled immediately. She claims she can’t bear to actually post what was said except for one excerpt, but we can do that easily enough.

This is the excerpt she posted “Many of the most powerful elements of the conservative movement are all Catholic (many converts) from the (Supreme Court) and think tanks to the media and social groups. It’s an amazing bastardization of the faith. They must be attracted to the systematic thought and severely backwards gender relations and must be totally unaware of Christian democracy.”

Hmmm, now, is there anything untrue about this? Well, there is and it’s from the fellows assuming that there is anything called “Christian democracy” since that term is never supported or mentioned by the bible’s Christianity nor by the Roman Catholic Church. Some more liberal Christians from various sects (including Catholics) do go by this, but it is an invention to match modern mores, not biblical standards. The truths stated are that the RCC has very systemic thought (going all the way back to the Church fathers aka Thomism amongst others) that is still considered dogma, and the completely ignorant ideas about women and homosexuals that the RCC tries to instill as law in any country they can. We have blasphemy laws still on the books in majority Catholic countries, and we have such wannabe theocracies like El Salvador where the RCC is so strong, a woman can’t get an abortion for any reason and children are forced to have babies or die in the attempt. We also have the RCC’s efforts to prevent sex education and their concerted effort in countries in Africa where AIDS is rampant to prevent anyone from taking any precautions at all, including wearing condoms.

Now, here are the other emails (here’s what I got when searching on “catholic”). In amongst lots and lots of inanities, some do point out the failures of the religion and its claims, and unlike what the Catholics and other theists would like you to believe, there is no law against that, no law against showing that the emperor has no clothes. When there is a truth, it’s hard to be so very indignant and insist that no one should mention it. Interestingly enough, the fellows in the emails are standing up for the RCC in that they think it is being bastardized by the conservatives, since the RCC does have some decent support of social issues (unless you are a woman who doesn’t want the Pope to decide her healthcare or anything but heterosexual). The emails also show that Catholics don’t agree on issues either, again pointing out that there are conservative Catholics and liberal Catholics, unlike the united front that Ms. Flowers tries to claim.

Like any religious fundamentalists, from Catholics to Protestants, from Muslims to Jews, they don’t like for their religion to be exposed to thought. How dare anyone not “respect” their religion! No matter that they each insist that the other will be going to some kind of eternal torture, a concept quite a bit nastier than pointing out failures.

She seems to forget, or wants us to forget, that her sect (along with others) has spent millions in the fight to get Roe v. Wade overturned. It is only because the theocrats on the Supreme Court have been countered by those that respect the rule of law that Roe v. Wade still stands. They have lost their attempts to force a theocratic rule over women, but not for lack of trying.

This also holds true for the attempts that the RCC, and other sects, have made in preventing marriage equality and safe and equal treatment for those who are not heterosexual.

And we also have the examples of how the RCC wants power in the simple fact that they have done all they can in Pennsylvania to prevent the extension of the statute of limitations in rape cases involving children. They have done all they can to prevent having to be responsible for what they have done in the past to children.

And damn, Ms. Flowers, “grandma elsie who was a political lemming”? those blue collar “simple folk”? For all of your whining about “Catholic dignity”, you have no problem ignoring that “dignity” when convenient. But we know that what you call “dignity” is nothing more than a plea for no one to point out how very ignorant and backward Catholic ideas are. Those deserve to be shown to the light of day. But heck, if you have no problem in being “gender-backward” and in a “medieval dictatorship” (hello Pope!), then you can do that all you want. You just can’t do that to the rest of us.

Now, I find it amusing that Ms. Flowers and the other Catholics didn’t mention the most important email about Catholics in these leaked posts. Just feast your eyes on this: I was reading the emails and found this one that was just fascinating about Catholics, astronaut Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14), and zero-point energy.

(10/20/2016 – I’ve invited Ms. Flowers peruse my post and to comment here if she would wish.  She has responded by telling me she only reads writings from authors who are paid for what they write, implying that this makes them more valid in someway.  This position begs the question of why she should think anyone would consider her op-ed worth reading or considering since she was not paid for it.)

and another postscript:  10/22/2016: Unlike some conservative Christians, like Ms. Flowers,  some liberals decided to talk to the people who are mentioned in the wikileaks emails about Catholics. Funny how the conservatives are hilariously wrong in their claims. One might want to read what Halpin wrote about the emails. I will have to say it’s entirely no surprise that Halpin is a Catholic himself. Again, we have evidence that claims by conservative Catholics aren’t true and that all is not uniform in the world of Roman Catholics. Sorry, Ms Flowers, my conservative Catholic who likes to tell false things, but you fail again and the truth will out, showing that there is no reason to believe such nonsense spread by you or that you have some moral high ground. Again, unsurprisingly, Mr. Halprin is the recipient of imprecatory prayers aka prayers for something harmful to happen to someone, something that Christians are known for but don’t like mentioned.

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18 responses to “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – insisting on apologies for telling the truth

  1. Pingback: Reblogging “Apologies for telling the Truth?” | The Recovering Know It All

  2. Demos (The Peopl’s) Kratia or Cracy (power). The very word of Democracy, the “people’s power,” seems contrary to “Christianos”– follower of Christ– a system that surrenders power to the Lord and the Church. Christian/Democracy? One is a funnel and the other is a pyramid.

  3. Well done, my friend. Given that much stronger criticism has come from many of the RC faithful and other Christian denominations, when I first saw the op-ed, I had the same thought. WTF is she talking about? Then I had this thought: it’s politics. That may not be her motive, but I have read the DT is not winning the RC vote.

    • I suspect her motive is that of many theists, the desperate need for attention and anything to shore up her faith. Any question, any doubt is a mortal threat to most, if not all, theists. If she demands an apology, she can pretend that her sad, medieval and ignorant faith still has some validity.

  4. Unlike some conservative Christians, some liberals decided to talk to the people who are mentioned in the wikileaks emails about Catholics. https://thinkprogress.org/wikileaks-halpin-catholics-f09c798ba99d#.v4dsryq0a Funny how the conservatives are hilariously wrong in their claims. One might want to read what Halpin wrote about the emails. I will have to say it’s entirely no surprise that Halpin is a Catholic himself. Again, we have evidence that claims by conservative Catholics aren’t true and that all is not uniform in the world of Roman Catholics. Sorry, Ms Flowers, my conservative Catholic who likes to tell false things, but you fail again and the truth will out, showing that there is no reason to believe such nonsense spread by you or that you have some moral high ground. Again, unsurprisingly, Mr. Halprin is the recipient of imprecatory prayers aka prayers for something harmful to happen to someone, something that Christians are known for but don’t like mentioned.

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