Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Theists, the jig is up

Complete Christian idiots
Complete Christian idiots

So, here we are with a pandemic.   I’m working from home now and so is my husband for at least the next 14 days. We aren’t in the risky populations but my folks are, my dad having COPD thanks to a lifetime of smoking and inhaling gods know what from being a farmer and my mom from just being older. My family has alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency aka genetic emphysema running through it. This means that anyone with two of the copies of the gene has lungs that react badly to many things, like my aunt who was a teacher for years and the chalk dust was what made her lungs crap. My uncle died of complications from breathing in silage dust and welding fumes.

Weirdly enough, this gene mutation is also thought to protect people from intestinal worms so it did have a limited good effect when worms were a much larger issue than they are now. The smoke from inside sources of heat back then must have been a problem though.

So, yes, stay home, avoid people and deal with it.

What is interesting now is that religions are having to deal with this in a way I don’t recall seeing before. We have some Christians realizing that their god has no power over a virus and believing science quite a lot now, despite their attempts to claim that it is wrong in relation to their religion. We also have other Christians ignoring reality and making things worse by their lies.

In both cases, we have that the claims that religions make shown to be completely false. No magic god, no magic healing, there is just reality and we have to deal with it. Trump declared a “day of prayer” and unsurprisingly, nothing at all happened.

It is very much past time to ditch magical thinking.

Here is a good article on the virus: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-19-update-what-you-need-to-know/

38 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Theists, the jig is up

  1. I have a friend that recently died from a fall. One of our mutual friends came to visit while I was at the hospital and he asked if anyone here was Christian, then asked if he could pray for him. He commanded him in the name of jesus for a full recovery. At the memorial service they just carry on like nothing, with more prayers, of course. I’m pretty sure that if their Uber confident belief couldn’t save him from brain injury that it’s not going to do shit to save his soul either, if there is such a thing. But they just wave it off and keep praying.

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      1. He had the balls afterwards to ask me why I wasn’t a believer then tried to get me into a conversation about Jesus as lord. I did tell him I’d been suckered enough times in my life already, but I’d think about it (the always too nice Jim)
        He’s an “almost big wig” at a prosperity church and is a gold star donor.

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      1. I forget who’s poll it was. Maybe I was in shock. Those TV channels flash so many polls up I can’t keep track. But I will see if I can find it.

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  2. I hope you, your husband, and your parents stay safe. It really is shocking how people have just disregarded this virus because they aren’t in a high risk population.

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    1. Thank you Jack. I hope you and yours stay safe too.

      It is indeed very shocking that people have just disregarded this virus. Those who seem to be intent on doing this are conservative Christians, with their baseless beliefs that this god heals people. We have Christians after Christian dying thanks to them being stupid and gathering in groups, intentionally ignoring the medical experts.

      This willful ignorance and intentional determination to ignore science and reality is why I stand up against conservative Christians when they lie out of their selfishness and greed.

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      1. I don’t agree on the baseless beliefs but I’m not here to argue. It is very dumb that people continue to gather. Sorry I commented twice I didn’t see my original at first.

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      2. no problem. I do have to wonder why you’ve stopped by Jack. If you are bored and want to look into why I’m an atheist and why others are, here are some links. I’d also be happy to answer any questions you might have.

        The Infidel’s Library:The Infidel’s Library:The Infidel’s Library: where you can find a lot of counter-apologetics.

        Talk OriginsTalk OriginsTalk Origins – you can find lot about more scientific issues like evolution, the noah flood, if you browse the archives.

        and of course my own blog. I’ve tried to make it fairly easy to find things if you use the search function. These are some of the pieces I like the best:

        https://clubschadenfreude.com/2014/12/09/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-let-my-people-go-for-a-long-weekend-the-peculiar-story-of-the-exodus-part-1/

        https://clubschadenfreude.com/2017/01/18/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-960000-tons-of-what/

        https://clubschadenfreude.com/2019/09/27/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-more-low-hanging-creationist-fruit/

        and here’s a nice list of Christian questions that I’ve responded too: https://clubschadenfreude.com/2018/09/17/not-so-polite-dinner-conversation-questions-posed-to-an-atheist/

        I think you also might like my friend John Zande’s book, “The Owner of all Infernal NamesThe Owner of all Infernal NamesThe Owner of all Infernal Names” and “On the Problem of GoodOn the Problem of GoodOn the Problem of Good”, both which take the stances of there being a malicious deity to explain the universe. It is a very good take on how philosophy and religion can lead you in all sorts of directions if you don’t leaven them with some reality.

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      3. I was just curious about what you’ve been writing about. Not questioning my faith but thinks for the offer. See we can both be very civil and agreeable.

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      4. Actually I do have one question. How do you believe all of this, this being everything in the universe, can come from nothing? How can of this and it’s infinite complexity be created from nothing?

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      5. Most, if not all, religions make the same claim that Christians do, Jack; that their and only their god is the creator of the universe. That none of you can show this to be the case is enough not to believe any of you. You can’t show a god is needed.

        Your question is basically the cosmological aka “first cause” argument with the teleological aka design argument thrown in. We have no evidence that any god aka powerful existential intelligent entity exists. Theists invent them all of the time and as time goes on, those gods become vaguer and vaguer since theists find they cannot show that their god exists at all, so they must invent one that no one can disprove. This causes a problem since your gods have very definite characteristics that can be disproved and you have claims of their actions that should leave evidence. There is no evidence to be found.

        All we might need is a starting “force”. But we don’t even know that there is a start, the laws of physics may simply be as eternal and ever-present as any god is claimed to be. The BBT may be just one in a cycle that does go back infinitely or some other concept we simply can’t comprehend yet or ever. The order of the universe is just part and parcel of it. This universe has no evidence that some magical being can cause anything to happen. There are limits. Magic aka miracles don’t happen, no matter which religion is making the claim.

        As for coming from “nothing”, it depends on what you mean by “nothing”. As I mentioned above, the evidence we have is that the laws of physics are perfectly able to do have particles come into being from what we think is nothing. We could be wrong. Still no need for a god personally concerned with humans.

        Nothing shows that a god is needed for a complex universe. The laws of physics handle that just fine. Now, the usual claim would be that the universe is somehow “made” for humans. Again, that doesn’t work since this universe is deadly to humans in 99.999999999999…% of it. Most of the earth itself isn’t made for humans. This shows an incompetent god if you want to go with magic. However, if yuo go with we fit the universe, not the other way around, then there is no problem. We arose on this plant because we could.

        Nothing shows that humans are special or particular great in a lot of things. If we are “designed” it was by an idiot, with being not designed to walk/stand upright well, with vestigal things that often cause us problems, etc. Most christians will claim that the “fall” is responsible for that, but as we can see going back, there was no magical change in human physiology. Creationism, all of the versions, fail since there is no evidence for any of them.

        All of this above (plus a lot more) is why I have come to the conclusion that no gods exist. If I asked you why you don’t believe that Brahman (the Hindu creator) created the universe, what would your answer be?

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      6. My argument to that is that you have just as much faith in that starting force that I do in God. You don’t know if it was there but you would probably bet your life that it was. That’s just my opinion.

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      7. Actually, why does it matter either way? Why not just enjoy our time while we’re here? If it makes some feel better to think/believe a supernatural entity started it all, so be it. If others take a more scientific approach, so be it. One day we may discover that one of the other of us was right … or wrong … but that’s then. This is now.

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      8. I totally understand what you’re saying. But as a Christian I’m at least supposed to try to get you to understand my point. I also understand that the chances of you and Club and others converting is minuscule and I understand and accept that. That’s why I’m not on here preaching to you about Jesus loving you.

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      9. Been there, done that. So nothing you say related to religion/Christianity is new to me.

        And I too understand your position. The thing I often wonder about is why individuals like yourself think (or believe) that visiting and commenting on a blog that’s obviously run by an atheist will make a difference.

        In any case, I hope you and your loved ones stay well and safe.

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      10. Jack, as a Christian, your bible does say to spread the word. But since Christians can’t agree on the word, and can’t even convince each other, we have to wonder why you think your version is the right one? We see no difference between sects of Christians or Christians and everyone else.

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      11. And that’s totally fine. We hold different opinions and that doesn’t make the other a bad person.

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      12. that isn’t true, Jack. Conservative Christian ideology depends on trying to limit the freedom of others you don’t agree with. We see this constantly in the attempts to legislate religious opinion into law.

        We have conservative Christians trying to control a woman’s healthcare. We’ve had women die because of this. We have conservative Christians trying to define marriage, and all of the legal rights involved in it, to only what they want. We’ve had gay couples being denied the right to attend each other while dying because of this. Conservative Christians have spent millions in trying to prevent laws that protect gay, transgender, etc people. Conservative Christians have done their best to prevent good parents from adopting children because the Christians don’t believe that gay people, and Jews, among others, can be good parents. Conservative Christians want to control their employees healthcare.

        So your support of these things does harm people.

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      13. Club, I’m sorry but you’re being ridiculous. I agree with very few of those things. The people that do believe that are dumb. That’s like me saying you’re an evil person because your an atheist and atheists have killed people. I don’t think your awful just because you share some of your ideology will awful people. Please afford me the same.

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      14. Jack, if you don’t believe in those things I listed, why were you playing sycophant to John Branyan and his daughter who do believe in all of those things?

        and which of those things that conservative Christians promote *do* you agree with?

        There is quite a difference between trying to claim that atheism has caused horrible things and claiming Christianity has caused horrible things. Atheism, the conclusion that there are no gods has caused nothing horrible. Megalomaniacs have and they may or may not have been atheists. Theists are also atheists of other gods than their own, so it does backfire on you to try to claim this like so many theists do.

        Christianity has caused horrible things and I can point to chapter and verse where it says to do horrible things.

        Addendeum: I can also point to Christians demanding exemptions from social distancing for the simple nonsense that they make believe their god can heal. This also harms people.

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      15. no, I have no faith, which in your case, you mean belief without evidence as the bible says. I have evidence thanks to physicists that is replicable and that same physics makes this computer work, makes GPS accurate, makes nuclear power plants work, etc. You have baseless claims that are pretty much the same as any religion that you claim is false.

        I certainly wouldn’t want to die for natural laws but I might die because of them if I ignored them in the silly belief that magic works. Those laws are agreed upon and no matter how much you want to pretend magic works, it doesn’t.

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      16. You do have faith. You have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. You may have seen it before but you have absolutely no way to prove that it will.

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      17. Nope, no faith. I have a trust earned by evidence presented over time and that can be replicated. I do have quite a lot of ability to prove that the sun will rise, my car engine will start, my computer will connect to the internet if there are no problems, problems which I also can identify thanks to evidence. It’s called the laws of physics, Jack. This is not a Dr. Seuss universe where anything can happen. This is also why I know that theists are wrong when they lie about magic happening in the past and happening now. You can’t show any evidence that what you claim is true.

        We have that Christians are claiming to be able to heal like the myths in the bible. We have other Christians insisting that miracles no longer happen since it was supposedly only the “apostles” who could do the miracles (the bible of course says nothing like this and directly contradicts it). We know that Christians can’t heal the coronavirus, amputees, cancer patients, etc. When they are pressed, they claim that it must be their god’s “will” that they can’t.

        How wonderfully convenient, isn’t it?

        Liked by 1 person

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