Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – A Pew Research Study “Half of Americans say Bible should influence U.S. laws, including 28% who favor it over the will of the people”

The Pew Research Center has a new study out about religion: “Half of Americans say Bible should influence U.S. laws, including 28% who favor it over the will of the people

“The U.S. Constitution does not mention the Bible, God, Jesus or Christianity, and the First Amendment clarifies that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Still, some scholars have argued that the Bible heavily influenced America’s founders.

Today, about half of Americans (49%) say the Bible should have at least “some” influence on U.S. laws, including nearly a quarter (23%) who say it should have “a great deal” of influence, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey. Among U.S. Christians, two-thirds (68%) want the Bible to influence U.S. laws at least some, and among white evangelical Protestants, this figure rises to about nine-in-ten (89%).”

As you see above, it’s pretty much what is expected.  Conservative Christians make false claims and then believe them.

Now, consider this above and note that Christians have been repeatedly complaining that Christians are bible illiterate (examples: Biola article, progressive Christian on Patheos, conservative Christian research group, Barna, Southern Nazarene University ) So we have a confluence of people who have no idea what they believe and then want everyone else to be held to what they don’t know as law.  Add to this, that Christians disagree on what their bible really says and which parts to accept as literal, metaphor and to just ignore and there is indeed a problem.

Christians would not agree on how US laws would be influenced.  We’d have a religious war as soon as these “law” were implemented.

And us atheists, who know the bible better than the believers, know we don’t want it at all as law.

Hmm, it seems that actual familiarity with the vicious and ignorant laws of the bible show us that the bible has nothing to do with US Law and any sane person doesn’t want it controlling them.

Here some of those god laws

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before[a] me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Preventing other religions and harming people for acts not their own.

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, “I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person,” then his master shall bring him before God.[a] He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

Choose between love and slavery

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Selling your children and treating them as property.

20 When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

Dying slowly gets your murder off.

The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me. 30 You shall do the same with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall remain with its mother; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.

There goes free will

23 When my angel goes in front of you, and brings you to the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I blot them out, 24 you shall not bow down to their gods, or worship them, or follow their practices, but you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces.

Promises of genocide.

And we’re only three chapters into the exodus laws.

then we have laws like these from Leviticus:

44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.

Now, most Christians will claim “we don’t have to follow the laws in the bible because Jesus Christ….”  Well, funny how he said that the laws must be followed, at best you can say that he interpreted some of them a little differently.

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish (to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something)  the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish (to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something)  but to fulfill (to put into effect : execute). 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks[d] one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Some Christians try to claim that fulfill means “: to bring to an end” which it can.  That they think JC said “I haven’t come to end but I’ve come to end” is rather silly.  

The Freedom From Religion Foundation’s blog also has a good article on theocratic bullshit like this.

28 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – A Pew Research Study “Half of Americans say Bible should influence U.S. laws, including 28% who favor it over the will of the people”

  1. America is strictly anti Christian in reality. The constitution allows the free practice of whatever religion you choose. The Bible as you show, allows for no freedom of religion at all. So if the constitution was inspired by god, he contradicts himself again…weird.

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  2. Someone with whom I’ve had a long-running conflict proclaims on her blog page that “God’s Word Stands Forever!” . I’ve asked her if that means she’ll seek to overturn the 13th Amendment. She never answers that.
    I’ve asked her why she’s not killing gay people, as Leviticus demands; she says that Jesus rescinded that directive. When I ask her to show me exactly where in the Bible he did that, she goes all quiet.
    A “word” that applies always and forever means that word also has to apply here and now…and there can be no excuse for ignoring that line of reasoning. But the believers you describe don’t believe in reason.

    The Sabbath is supposedly a day of rest, but events don’t stop for that (“Your house is on fire? It’s Sunday; tough luck, dude.”)

    This year marks the 100th anniversary of the start of Prohibition; a faith-based mistake whose repercussions are still with us.

    I don’t think any Christian would actually want to live under the conditions they want everyone else to live. I try to tell myself that they simply haven’t thought it through. Sometimes I even believe it.

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    1. The Bible does not promote slavery of people to people. It does promote a servant attitude toward God. The bible promotes all people can be free. The interpretation of the Bible is important. One is supposed to check single verses with other themes such as love your neighbor as yourself in order to get accurate interpretations. This is not a book of prescriptions and it does not say go get yourself a slave. On the contrary Paul advocates freeing your slaves. Yes they had slaves back then. No one thought it was wrong in the least bit but Christianity put the idea in their hearts to free them because they are people not property. The same for women. The bible was the first to promote women’s rights. Granted churches run by men did not get that.

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      1. Hello, Scott.
        I don’t know which version of the bible you read, but the book of Exodus gives very clear instructions to the Hebrews regarding the distinctions between Hebrew and non-Hebrew slaves, on how to obtain slaves, how to treat them, and how to determine when (if ever) they are to be set free. No, it does not say ‘go get yourself a slave’, but it does tell you how to get one, and where, and what to do with one…so I must conclude that yes, the bible does promote slavery.
        There were no such people as ‘Christians’ in Moses’ time. Christianity did not put into people’s hearts the idea that slavery was immoral. European Christians had slaves; in fact, the transatlantic slave trade was begun by them! In 1999 the Southern Baptist Convention publicly admitted their dirty little secret; they were founded in 1847 exclusively to find biblical justification for keeping slaves.
        Paul advocated for freeing ONE slave, a fugitive slave who just happened to be a Christian. Put that in context with his “Slaves, obey your earthly masters, with fear and trembling”. In the end, after all, Paul returned Onesimus to his master, because legally Onesimus was ‘lost property’, not a ‘missing person’.

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      2. ok this is the last thing I will say about it. The bible is completely true but the contradictions seen make sense at a deeper level. There are few contradictions and they are there on purpose to lead people into higher truth like a paradox.

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      3. I find the Socratic method works better; by asking questions, we make our way to answers.
        So, the contradictions seen make sense at a deeper level, hm? Hmm, that would mean that slavery is a form of freedom! Why don’t you try it, and tell us how well that works?
        There is no ‘higher truth’. There is only truth, and it doesn’t need to wrap itself in ecclesiastical robes. Haven’t you ever heard the term “the naked truth”? Ever stop to think exactly what that means?
        Thanks for playing.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Thanks for speaking with me civilly. I do appreciate it. 2Tim 3:16-17 “16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

        Notice righteousness.
        I realize I am not as smart as you and I make mistakes but does that mean I should not share my opinion?

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      5. If I may jump in here just for a moment …

        Scott, you asked, “does that mean I should not share my opinion?” Certainly there is nothing wrong with people sharing their opinion. What’s important to remember is that without validated facts confirmed by accepted research, that’s all it is. An opinion.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Scott, just because some book says it is true and made from magic doesn’t mean it is. And just because someone calls themself “righteous” (acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin) doesn’t mean they are. You have the presupposition that your bible is true and you have the only right way to understand it. This is no different from any other theist and none of you can show that your version is the right one.

        Your opinion is just that, no different from the opinions of every other theist. With no evidence to back up your claims, there is no reason for anyone to consider your opinion correct or important.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Scott, I am not that smart. Every fact I told you is from a publicly available source (like your bible). And we all make mistakes…even your god (Gen 6:7).
        Of course you can share your opinion! I don’t have the right, the ability, or the desire to stop you. But I do expect you to bring something meaningful to the conversation, otherwise I can exercise my right, ability, and desire to walk away.
        In the past few hours others here have confronted you because you’ve brought nothing to the discussion that we haven’t heard before.

        I suggest you read those lines from 2 Timothy again, and consider that you have been taught, reproofed, and corrected. Whether you have been trained or not will be determined by your words when you come here again…if you ever do.

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      8. “ok this is the last thing I will say about it. The bible is completely true but the contradictions seen make sense at a deeper level. There are few contradictions and they are there on purpose to lead people into higher truth like a paradox.”

        That is complete nonsense, Scott. There is no “deeper level”, since Christians can’t agree on what the bible means. There dozens if not hundreds of contradictions, and they are there because the bible was made up piecemeal by very ignorant people and people who wanted certain things to be in the bible for political reasons.

        Here’s a good articleHere’s a good articleHere’s a good article on the contradictions in the bible, and yep, they aren’t there to show some magical “real” truth.

        Does your god harm people for other people’s actions, Scott? Well, we don’t know, do we when we have this? https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/iniquity.html

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      9. You have no evidence for your baseless claims. You intentionally ignore facts and try to claim that they are wrong for your own benefit.

        That’s called lying no matter how you’d like to try to dress it up.

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      10. Scott, don’t try to lie to people who have read the bible. The bible promotes slavery repeatedly. You are again trying to invent excuses for your god invented by ignorant agrarians in their image.

        “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” Leviticus 25

        “f you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. ” Exodus 21

        “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. ” Exodus 21

        “Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.” 1 Timothy 6

        “8 Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. 19 For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. 20 If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God’s approval. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you should follow in his steps.22 “He committed no sin,and no deceit was found in his mouth.”23 When he was abused, he did not return abuse; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly.” 1 Peter 2

        No “Don’t have slaves” or “Slaves seek your freedom!” Since your god was invented by humans, this god of course was portrayed as having no problem with slavery.

        Each Christian invents a supposed “right” way to read the bible and funny how you all disagree. So much for the ‘holy spirit” giving anyone the “truth”.

        The bible is indeed a book of prescriptions e.g. “: the action of laying down authoritative rules or directions” – merriam webster dictionary from prescribe: to lay down a rule. You are wrong again, Scott.

        GM has it right when he shows that your claims are untrue. christianity put nothing in people’s hearts, people pick and choose from Christianity to do what they want.

        The bible was not the first to promote women’s rights. Here is infornmation aHere is infornmation aHere is infornmation about other cultures that were far better than the ignorant agrarians who invented your god. You again try to lie when your bible makes claims like this:

        “12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.” – 1 Timothy

        “As in all the churches of the saints, 34 women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” – 1 Corinthians

        Now, Scott, will you admit you are wrong and stop trying to spread lies or will you keep on trying to take away the ability to make an informed decision from people?

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      11. The verse says that in Christ Jesus there is no Greek nor Jew nor slave nor free. In the real world there are plenty of those, and more. You really should research the subject more thoroughly.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. Scott, again, it doesn’t help you to try to quote bible verses to people who know the bible better than you.

        As GM points out, the verse from Galatians is specific to a certain group. You also have the problem with your bible *never* saying that slavery is bad nor that slaves should want their freedom. That belies your false claim about people having free choice.

        We can dig deeper into your bible on how it has nothing about free will or free choice at all. Paul, in Romans 9, states that no one can accept this god picks and chooses who it will allow to choose it and then damns the rest for no fault of their own. Jesus Christ said the same thing when asked why he used parables, to intentionally prevent some from accepting him and then again damning them for no fault of their own. We also have that every time a supposed “miracle” occurs this abrogates free will, along with this god controlling people’s minds also removing their free will, and killing people or allowing them to be killed, the ultimate removal of free will.

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  3. Still, some scholars have argued that the Bible heavily influenced America’s founders.

    “Scholars” argue about a lot of things. But in this case, I can’t help but wonder if this particular “scholar” overlooked the fact that the founders were Deists, not “Christians.”

    (Interestingly, many “Christians” will deny this … wonder why?)

    Like

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