Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – A Christian claims everyone agrees with her.

Elizabeth Prata, of “The End Time – Exalting the name of Jesus through Christian essays” blog, has written an essay claiming everyone really does agree with her about her god existing. I found out about her nonsense on Bruce Gerencser’s blog.

This is nothing new for a christian to claim, or, indeed, for many theists of all stripes to claim. Their need for external validation of their beliefs causes them to try to convince themselves that everyone agrees with them.

I replied to her answer to my first post, and gee, she didn’t allow it since it shows her claims to be false and that she is ignorant about her own supposed holy book. I do love the wonderful excuse she’s invented for herself “I deleted your reply. When the comment is longer than the actual post I usually delete. You gave your point I made my answer, I shared the Gospel. Now we can go our separate ways.  Have a pleasant day and please consider what I’ve shared. Your eternity depends on it”. I do enjoy Christians who make up “rules” as they find convenient. What even funnier is that her original post is 676 words. My response was 1425, and with the bible verses and her own words removed, it comes out to 924. Oh the horror.

Let’s see what Elizabeth said as her reply to what I said here:
“Elizabeth, it’s always great to see a Christian make false claims. You try to claim that “everyone knows” that your god exists, but that’s not true at all. It’s just you trying to convince yourself that you are right, and you must invent external validation that doesn’t exist to prop up your religion.

Not even all Christians agree on the same god, since you all invent the morals you insist it wants, and gee you all contradict each other. Add that fact to the fact that not one Christian can do what Jesus Christ promised and it seems that you are all frauds.”

Elizabeth “Hello Club,

Thanks for the comment. I am not making false claims. Every person on earth knows God exists because they:
–have a moral compass knowing right from that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, Romans 2:15

–have a conscience- John 8:9, And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
–see that the earth they are walking on exists. Romans 1, the word of God, specifically addresses this as mentioned in the essay above

We Christians know we are sinners and we often fail, usually daily, hour by hour. However nothing the Lord promised will fail. That He uses us sinful humans to accomplish His ends is amazing! When He says He will sustain us to do His will until the end, He does. Paul is a good example of a Christian that does what Jesus promised and who was not a fraud. He went from being a zeal breathing murderer of Christians to the greatest evangelist, missionary, teacher, and church planter the New Testament ever wrote about.

One way you can tell we are committed to the cause of Christ is that so many of us are willing to die to bring the Gospel to people who are not saved from God’s wrath. Since we are all sinners, we are separated from God because he is holy, and we will go to hell to be punished for our sins when we die.

What did Jesus promise that not one Christian can do? I’m not sure I understand that part of your comment

Romans 1:18,19- For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Jesus came to earth, lived the perfect life God demands, and died on the cross, taking on the punishment for sin that we justly deserve. Pleased with His Son, God resurrected Jesus and ascended Him to heaven. Now, all you need to do is acknowledge your sin, repent (turn from it) and ask Jesus to forgive you. He transfers His righteousness that is so pleasing to God, to you, and you can go to heaven to be with Him when you die instead of hell. Will you repent of your sins that anger our holy God so much?? Please.”

Elizabeth, you can call me Vel.    So, Elizabeth, let’s take a look at your claims.

Yep, your bible says that everyone knows about this god, Romans 1, Romans 2.  Funny how most, if not all religions, make the exact same claim, that the universe is “evidence” for their god, and everyone “really” agrees with their god, and can’t show it to be true at all.  Now, unsurprisingly, that bit from Romans 2 isn’t quite complete.  It says, in context, “12 All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.” Romans 2 (NRSV)

Unsurprisingly, gentiles don’t follow the “law” instinctively at all, nor can Christians agree on what the ”law” consists of, so much for your claim that everyone agrees with you when even other Christians don’t.  You all ignore the parts you find inconvenient, making some lovely excuses on why you don’t have to go about killing people who work on the sabbath, etc, despite your supposed messiah saying that *all* of the laws in the OT are to be followed, no exceptions. 

Humans have a consciousness, and we must be taught what is acceptable and not acceptable, our supposed “conscience”.  The sad facts of feral children show that we have no innate knowledge of what society considers “right” and “wrong”.   Your bible is wrong about basic facts, as usual.  The story in John 8 is just that, a story.  It is largely agreed upon in academic Christian circles that this was added much later to the Gospel of John, some hundreds of years later since it is not found in the earliest versions.  You might want to look at the Wikipedia article “Jesus and the woman taken in adultery” and take a look at its bibliography. 

Oh Chrsitians do claim that they are “sinners” but funny how they can’t agree on what this god considers as sin, so we have lots of different fingers pointing around at each other about who is the “real” sinners. 

Everything that the lord has promised has failed, Elizabeth and I can point to the entire industry of Christian apologetics to show that since you all must make up excuses on why your god does nothing for its believers and it hasn’t returned yet, despite 2000+ years of Christians promising it will return “soon”.  This god has used no one at all, and Christians can’t even agree on what its “ends” are. 

You try to claim that this god sustains every Christian to do his will til the end, and we can see that is simply not true since Christians die just like everyone else, are harmed just like everyone else and they commit suicide just like everyone else.  Of course, you will try victim blaming as an excuse for your god, saying that those who fail weren’t “real” Christians. 

The story of Paul is quite the example of how the bible is full of nonsense.  Poor Paul can’t even keep his own origin story straight, so there is no reason to think he is telling some “truth”.  This Paul also repeatedly contradicts your supposed messiah so you do have a problem claiming that Paul was some “greatest evangelist”.  Tell me, Elizabeth, who are we to call father per your bible? 

You then try to claim that since Christians are willing to die for their nonsense, this means it is true.  By that claim, then every martyr for every religion show that religion to be just as real as yours.  Muslims who blow themselves up, the people who drank poison at Jonestown, Buddhist who burnt themselves alive, all show that those religions are as valid as yours.  How interesting.  It’s also interesting that your god just doesn’t make bibles magically fall from the sky to those who supposedly need it.  Why does it need humans to do this, Elizabeth?  And if our “hearts” know this nonsense, why do we need bibles at all?  You have contradicted yourself. 

“What did Jesus promise that not one Christian can do? I’m not sure I understand that part of your comment.”

For all you claim to know about your bible, it’s always most curious that so many Christians claim ignorance of what JC promised them to be able to do.  

““Go into all the world and proclaim the good news[d] to the whole creation. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes in their hands,[e] and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16

11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. 12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.” John 14

13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5
Christians give many excuses why they can’t do the above promised actions.  Which ones will you try?

There is no evidence for your Jesus Christ existing at all, so repeating the myth doesn’t help your case, Elizabeth.  As I pointed out before, Christians can’t even agree on what this god considers sin so how can anyone “acknowledge” it?   Which of the many, many versions of Christianity do I have to believe in to get the “right” one?  You have no more idea of what “angers” your god than the next Christian.  And it’s quite a puny god that gets angry over what it knew its humans would do since it supposedly made them that way.  

Threats of hell are always amusing in their impotence and claims by Christians that I’ll go to heaven with this god shows their ignorance of what their own bible says.   Per your bible, only a very few virgin Jews get to go to heaven to be with this god, Elizabeth (and unsurprisingly, Christians can’t even agree on what the nonsense in Revelation “really” means).   The rest get the rather amazingly tacky “city of heaven on earth” with its streets of gold, gems everywhere, etc.  One has to wonder about a god that is so concerned with worldly wealth, from when it demands tons of gold, fine leathers, fancy curtains, etc for its temple to this “city”. 

As for your pleading for me to agree with you, I don’t and your claim that is the basis of this blog post is wrong. 

21 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – A Christian claims everyone agrees with her.

  1. Disgusting, unforgivable hubris on Elizabeth’s part.

    Elizabeth, if you’re reading this: There are billions of people on Earth. Are you really so fucking presumptuous to think that you can read all their minds? Using the excuse that we “suppress” this alleged knowledge of some absurd, self-contradictory and totally undetectable supernatural being is just weasel words.

    There is a very, very high probability that you are totally wrong, and that I and many, many other people actually do not have any knowledge of your alleged god. In other words, you are bearing false witness against us. You might want to consider repenting of that.

    And if you can’t tell the truth about real people, and refuse to respect their perspective of Life, the Universe and Everything, why should we think that you’re capable of telling the truth about anything else? You do your god and your beliefs no honour with this attitude. If your words were a knife, it would be the Holy Spook and the Gospel that you slew rather than us.

    Finally, your proxy threat against non-believers is an act of wilful psychological abuse. For attempting to bully people with dire warnings of a nasty eternity, I hope that things go very badly for you in the real world until you come to your senses and feel deep and abiding remorse for the damage you have done.


  2. So if someone says, “I do not agree with you,” she says, “actually you do and proof is that you have moral judgment and breath air.”
    They never cease to amaze, do they? Logic be damned.


      1. And so they must. Logic, rationality, and reason work against them. To them, it is okay to lie because they are working for Jesus (or god). It’s about identity, not truth.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. Always, Alexander. You might want to look over my blog to see what I have had to say about various apologetics. The search function works pretty well.

      You also might want to take a look at “The Boss’s Office” part of my blog, and within it, my “atheist testimony“.

      I’m a former Christian, I’ve read many apologists, and I’ve read the bible in its entirety a couple of times.

      Please introduce yourself. What kind of Christian are you? Since they vary all over the map, what are your personal beliefs about: free will vs predetermination, heaven and hell, what it takes to be “saved”, is the bible to be taken literally, what this god considers “sin” and anything else you might want to add. Oh and where, generally, in the world are you from? You’ll get most of this from my “atheist testimony” but I’m white, mostly straight, female, married, 50ish, pragmatically liberal, a big nerd, a geologist, and live in the USA, specifically Pennsylvania.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Well, I don’t really know what “kind” of Christian you’d call me, though, I agree this gets confusing with all the different denominations. I’ll just say this, I don’t go to church (which I know kinda’ damages my credibility, but there’s just a lot of Progressive Christianity flying around), and I’m not a Progressive or a Catholic.

        Free will vs. predetermination: While I think there might be some plausible arguments on both sides I believe God created us with free will; He wants us to make the choice to come to Him.

        Heaven and Hell: Well I believe there is a heaven and I believe there is a hell. As for purgatory, well it’s a cool concept but I still don’t know that the bible really supports that.

        What it takes to be Saved: Repent of your sins, except Jesus as your savior, and have faith in His promises.

        The Bible: Well I think some parts must be taken literally, and I take most of the miracles in the Bible as literal, but then there are things you have to tweak or look at creatively. For instance maybe God created the world in seven earth days, or maybe He created it in seven revolutions of the universe or the galaxy.

        What does God consider sin: well if you look at the Bible you get the usual, Murder, Rape, Theft, Lying, Adultery. But I also think it’s possible to sin by doing something that may not seem like sin. For instance, getting so involved in action figures that you start to worship and invest more time in that than in God (Though, that’s technically also in the bible to, it’s called Idolatry).

        Something I’d like to add: I think Elizabeth was right, that we all know God exists inside, but I think she went about the wrong way trying to prove it.

        I wont say to much about myself for privacy reasons but here’s the lowdown. Male, white, straight, born and lived a while in Pennsylvania (so we have something in common), currently residing somewhere sunny and southern, and politically moderate.


      2. Well, lets just start with our base beliefs and then will get to Elizabeth’s claim. What are your reasons for believing that there is no God, and also what then do you believe is the point of life?


      3. First “politically moderate”? Alex, as the blog owner I can see where you are from since WP shows the IP addresses of commenters. it isn’t politically moderate. I would never reveal where you are from, but you aren’t as anonymous as you might think.

        What I’m going to do is make a new blog post answering your questions, and then you can respond there. It’ll give us a nice fresh place to start. I’ll let you know when the blog post is up and link to it here.


  3. If Phaethon comes through, I wonder how long their “debating” will remain “friendly.” It seems like they claim to want a “friendly debate” with “open minds,” then quickly veer off into dogma and veiled insults. However, Phaethon has the opportunity to make me a liar.-)

    Liked by 1 person

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