Tag: Living Waters

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – Yah didn’t think Ray Comfort could get any worse, did you?

So here we have Ray Comfort with his new writing “ugly baby blindness syndrome.” (gee it is part of a book) He’s sure those newborns and toddlers are evil. You don’t have to go out to “living waters” if you want so see ol’ Ray in his idiocy. I made a nice set of screen shots since I wouldn’t be surprised if this suddenly disappears. Shows you that any “pro-life” claims are false.

These people will stop at nothing to convince people they are sick so they can shill their “cure.

https://clubschadenfreude.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/ugly-baby-blindness-syndrome.pdf

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Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – and so the Christians don’t feel smug, a nice lie from our old friend Ray Comfort

buzz’s expression when the moron Trump says “‘At some point in the future, we’re going to look back and say, ‘How did we do it without space?” in reference to space exploration.

As often happens, many Christians want to pretend they are martyrs.   They have to, their bible says they won’t get the special prezzies unless their prophecies come true.   They have to insist that it was magical that their bible predicts they would be ridiculed for their nonsense.

So, on ol’ Banana Man’s youtube channel,  he is trying to claim that NASA was up to something they didn’t mention Buzz Aldrin’s wine and cracker on Apollo 11.   Alas, for Ray, Buzz wasn’t a Christian who ignored his bible and didn’t shout it from the streetcorners like Ray et all do, since no one would notice they were Christians from their actions.  Incidentally, Buzz was a Presbyterian.  He sounds like more of deist now from his book.  Can you imagine what ol’ Ray would say if a Catholic did this?

As usual, its always great fun to see Christians lie again when they want to pretend that Christianity is everyone’s religion. The world heard the quotation of the bible on the Apollo 8 mission.   Madelyn O’Hare protested it and was quite correct to do so since all Americans and all the world aren’t Christians.

Astronaut Aldrin practiced his faith and had no need for it to be advertised (you know, like JC says about not shouting about your faith from street corners like Ray does, Matthew 6). You can read about it in his great book “No Dream Too High” https://www.amazon.com/No-Dream-Too-High-Lessons/dp/1426216491 .

Poor Christians, I do love that they ignore their bible when convenient.  Here are a few bits by Buzz in his book:

“In the few weeks prior to launch, when I told Deke Slayton, one of the original astronauts who now ran the Apollo 11 flight crew operations, what I planned to do, Deke balked. “No, that’s not a good idea, Buzz.” He cautioned me, “Go ahead and have Communion but keep your comments more general.” I didn’t agree with Deke at the time but I understood and complied with the instructions. Looking back, he was probably right.”

“I radioed Mission Control “I would like to request a few moments of silence,” I said, “and invite each person listening in, wherever and whomever they may be to pause for a moment and contemplate the events of the past few hours and give thanks in his or her own way.”

“Over the years, I’ve often wondered if I did the right thing, that perhaps I should not have engaged in such an overtly Christian rite, because we wanted to emphasize that we traveled to the moon on behalf of all mankind – Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, agnostics and even atheists. But I cannot deny history. The truth is the first liquid ever poured and the first food eaten on the Moon were Christian Communion elements. ”

“I don’t go around giving testimony to my faith and when anyone asks about the Communion on the Moon, I tell them I wanted to do something that was symbolic and something that was appropriate to the magnitude of what we accomplished. The best way to do that was to encourage everyone to give thanks in their own way. ”

Buzz believes in a higher power, but he acknowledges that there are good people of every kind.  A shame that so many Christians find a need to pretend that only they are important.

Buzz also has no problem in punching conspiracy theorists.

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – My chat with Ray Comfort transcripted

After some personal uncomfortableness on my part, listening to my own voice, I have transcripted my chat with Ray Comfort that was recorded by Ray and a copy given to me for my use.

 

Here is the transcript, since I personally really hate to listen to talking heads.  I read much faster than that, and a transcript is my favorite way to see what people say.  I didn’t put much punctuation to keep the feel of the chat, but I think it should be pretty easy to read.   I started with the autotranscript function on YouTube, and it was better than I thought it would be.  But a couple of times, it had issues with Ray’s accent, and evidently mine too 🙂 although I’ve read somewhere that central PA is about as accentless as it gets for an American.

There are some interesting bit that I wanted to comment on since there were some questions unanswered, and some topics we never got back to.

Here’s the bit about creationism (and the start of the discussion about morality):

V: No, well some of that did. I mean after I read it because it’s not very often that the pastors I grew up with would mention anything except for the pretty plain vanilla fuzzy good Jesus parts of it. basically I knew enough science to know that there was no such thing as a 28,000 foot deep flood and you know went on through that then I know after I read the Bible I saw where this God killed David’s son to punish David but you know didn’t care about the child and oh you know the you know the usual stuff that you’ll hear from various you know non-christians

R: so you’re saying that the flood, the noahic flood which was said to cover the whole earth wouldn’t have covered Mount Everest with 29,000 feet do you realize there was no such things as mountains in those days, they hadn’t pushed up

V: there’s no evidence that mountains are that young and there’s you know to try claim that there was no mountains requires quite a energetic geology that would essentially release so much energy that would broil pretty much everyone on earth

R: yeah well that’s kind of what happened in the beginning the mountains pushed up like volcanoes do anyway…

V: those aren’t volcanoes

R; no they’re not but they are made of stone or rock I guess… I don’t know we’re talking about things I don’t know much about well um do you want to use that name Vel or do you want to use your real first name

It’s notable that a creationist admits not to know much about the earth.  As I’ve written before, willful ignorance is behind most creationist claims.  Creationists, be they Christians, Muslims, etc, all need to either ignore reality or intentionally lie about it.  This causes them problems because their claims about creationism are contradictory, since they don’t even start out at the same place.  We have contradictory claims about how creation happened by theists, and we have many different claims about how the Noahic flood “really” happened; all dependent on an ignorance of basic science.  The folks over at Talk Origins have a good article on the failures of creationists with the bible flood.

After this we get into the morality discussion starting with my question to Ray about his god killing David’s son.  Here’s a bit about that:

“R: yes yeah he killed David son okay did God actually kill, is it David son? or yeah David son when he committed adultery with Bathsheba it didn’t bless him with the child he said the child’s gonna die there are repercussions to his actions but he lets solomon live which is wonderful (?)

V: would you be happy if someone killed one of your children and let the other one lives

R: no of course not I love all my kids

V: then why would you accept that from your God

R: oh because he’s the giver of life he’s a giver and the taker of life and he’s the one that blesses with health and and in life itself and a peace if he deems fit to take a loved one what can I do about it I just trust him I trust his integrity so let’s go back to the issue David had a son died and God took him and God says your child’s gonna die did they actually happen

V: did resurrection actually happen

R: no did David have a son that god killed

V: no no I did if that didn’t happen why should I think that the resurrection happened

R: oh no not talking about the resurrection what I’m trying to get you to say is that did God kill the son of David

V: yes that’s what the Bible says

R: yeah but it didn’t happen did it cuz you’re an atheist so you say it didn’t happen because God doesn’t exist so why are you upset about something it didn’t happen it’s like being upset about the fairy godmother turning Cinderella’s coach back into a pumpkin.”

V: (laughter) well let me ask you if let’s just say that it did happen

R: okay

V: and you said that you would have absolutely no problem with a god doing something you would be unhappy with the human doing correct

R: oh yeah I’d be I wouldn’t be the happiest man on earth of one of my children died but I know that God is the giver and the taker of life he created every bone every every drop of blood and my children he gave me the gift of children and if he deem fit that one of my children dies I can’t do anything about it but I can trust him I can trust him in it and say Lord you know what you’re doing you allowed this for some reason it may not be a perfect will but it should permissive will you’re permitted it and in that I rejoice I trust you because that’s what faith is about it’s trusting when often often things aren’t right

V: so you believe you have an objective morality from your religion correct

R: yeah absolutely

V: so if if it’s not moral for a human to do something why is it moral for your God to do it?”

If I were Ray’s kids, I’d be more than a little disturbed by this.  I’d do anything to save my kids or anyone’s kids and that includes standing against anything, god or not, that would try to kill them.  Heck, I’d do that for my cats.  Here, it seems that Ray’s best answer is that I shouldn’t care about some kid since it was long ago.  My morals don’t work like that.  Injustice and unfairness are forever.  He goes on to claim that since everyone is going to die, it isn’t a problem and that I should only be considered with my salvation.

We went back to creationism for a bit, and Ray deflected my request for evidence about which creationism is right.

“V: Christians are all they all have the one real truth but I what need to see is evidence that that is actually the case

R: well that’s it’s provable um now let me ask what’s that

V: how is it provable

R: we’ll come up to that in a few minutes

V: Laughter.”

And of course we didn’t.   That was fine with me since I knew at some point he would have to intentionally change the subject from something he didn’t like where it was going.

We discussed the Big Bang Theory a bit and unsurprisingly he intentionally misrepresented it.  That also wasn’t a fruitful path for him (get it? Fruit?).  So we ended up with the questions that Ray loves and are on more than few of his videos e.g. “Do you think you are a good person? Have you ever lied?”  Have you ever stolen anything? etc.

“R: how do you think you’re a good think you’re a good person

V: I’ve heard you do this before yes I do think I’m a good person and I do not use your Bible or your interpretation to define what good is.

R: that’s what we often do that’s what I did before I was a Christian that’s what Adolf Hitler did I no doubt if I talk to Hitler he would say he was a good person because he had his own moral standard he cleaned up Germany got rid of brothels more than full employment got rid of the scum of the earth clean the German race and …

V: know that a lot of Christians think that he did a very good job you can see that on the news with the various Trumpies thinking having no problem with Nazism at all

R: you know what if I were you I wouldn’t cover the whole church with one blanket because Jesus spoke of true and false conversions he spoke of hypocrites he spoke he spoke of fake Christians and they’re the ones that often speak the loudest so don’t sweep with such a broad broom there are genuine Christians that believe the Bible love their enemies that do good they’re kind to other people they’re not nasty and if you find someone who is professing Christian and they they lack love you can say to yourself I don’t believe that person’s a genuine Christian, they are a Jew. “

Now, when he said this initially it caught me by surprise. The auto transcript picked it up as “ they are junius”. I had to rewind this several times and listen because I didn’t want to believe it but this does seem to be what he said.

We ended up at the questions about lies and stealing, oh and taking god’s name in vain later:

“R: let’s get back the question let’s get back to the question because we’re going down a rabbit hole um if you think you’re a good person how do you measure up to those Commandments

V: I don’t care about your Commandments

R: But how do you measure up to them

V: I don’t need to measure up to them

R: well let me ask you let me let me put you on the stand and see how you do how many lies do you think you’ve told in your life

V: I’ve told some and some were for a good reason just like the folks who did Anne Frank were lying to the Nazis”

This was again not working for Ray, and he had to claim I hate his god because I use his god’s name as a cuss word.  There was more about how I have to be hating his bogeyman.  There is more about morals, and I had a good time pointing out just how evil his god is.   That got me told that I was “misinterpreting” the bible, but no explanation on how this was the case.

Then Ray was revved up and his words got faster and faster as he tried to preach at me.  That preaching was interspersed with my laughter and refutations.  His attempts at sowing fear didn’t work and that did appear to confuse him, leading to more repetition and appeals to how much my parents love me.

After trying to tell me, a former Presbyterian/calvinist, that I didn’t understand predestination “correctly”, we ended up with Ray trying to tell me that this god of his was finally answering my prayers said 40 years ago.   That his god is timeless, yada, yada. Which again doesn’t match up with what the bible actually says.

“R: okay let me answer that God sometimes takes his time a day of the Lord is a thousand years to us and God is answering that prayer today and I’m trying to help you to restore your faith so you thank God that he chooses the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe. he speaks through donkeys he’s speaking through me today and telling you that he has no pleasure in your death and he’s answering your prayer and he wants to restore your faith. Okay”

And yes, I was very very hard pressed not to use the obvious joke here. 🙂

This whole thing had a great ending when Ray sent me a signed copy of his book “Banana Man”, and it had two Subway gift cards in it.  I guess that’s what happened to the other $7000 went.  You can see the saga of the subway cards here.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – more low hanging creationist fruit

Fruit. See what I did there?  😀

Unsurprisingly, Ray Comfort, the fellow who thinks oranges are evidence for his version of the Christian god, is now trying to glom onto actual science again and insisting paleontology shows his myths are true.

And of course he’s trying to make money from repacking the same old creationist lies. Ray wants to claim this: “Why did the dinosaur disappear? Contemporary scientists have their theories:

  • Was it a massive asteroid?
  • Was it violent volcanic activity?
  • Did the dinosaurs kill each other?
  • Was it simply a matter of survival of the fittest?”

Hmm, just who are these “contemporary scientists” who think the dinos killed each other to the point of extinction or that it was “simply a matter of survival of the fittest”? That would be none. We do have evidence that it was likely a massive asteroid with some activity from massive volcanic areas known as traps.

Ray’s new video “Why did the dinosaurs disappear?” has a lovely trailer with a lot of rather ignorant people having no clue about dinosaurs and then Ray’s minions insisting that there has to be a designer.

That’s it. They tout a new discovery in Wyoming that supposedly agrees with their version of the bible.

Let’s take a look at that discovery.

First, it’s not new. Wyoming is a treasure trove of fossils thanks to where it is on the continent. It has one formation, the Morrison Formation, that has a lot of fossils in it. It’s made up of various beds of different sedimentary rock from conglomerates (big grain size) to siltstones (very small grain size) and limestones (chemical deposition and shells of critters). This indicates that there were different environments that deposited each layer. These layers were deposited within the Jurassic.

What Ray et al try to do is claim that there was their magic flood, and this was the reason dinos died. What they are too willfully ignorant to note is that there were dinos in other times too, the Triassic and Cretaceous. They weren’t the same ones as in the Jurassic.

There’s also the problem that massive floods don’t make layers like the Morrison Formation. Potholer54 does a great experiment to show this, an experiment that any child, or willfully ignorant theist, can do.

But heck, if you are going to invoke magic for one thing, why not insist that magic makes layers too?

What’s actually going on is that there is a thing called Mission Jurassic, where a lot of money and a lot of paleontologists will concentrate on a part of the formation thanks to the Children’s Museum in Indianapolis. Here’s a good article on it: https://buckrail.com/jurassic-dig-uncovering-hundreds-of-dinosaurs-in-wyoming/

It’s not surprising Ray et al want to try to spread their lies by hanging onto the coattails of science. Creations keep claiming “real soon now” that they’ll have evidence for their god being the one who created dinos and everything else. It’s rather like how they insist that their bible describes dinosaurs and that their god killed those same beasts, lots of false claims.

It’s rather quaint to see Ray try to claim that the behemoth described in Job (you know, where this god works with Satan to murder a family) is really a large herbivorous dinosaur. Let’s look at what the bible says and how Ray ignores what it actually says to invent his lies.

“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moves his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinks up a river, and hastens not: he trusts that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares” (Job 40:15-24).

The italics are Ray’s claims verbatim.

This was the largest of all creatures He made. It was plant-eating (herbivorous).

Alas Ray is too lazy to know about blue whales, eh? Dinos didn’t eat like oxen as far as the evidence shows.

It had its strength in its hips.

Loins, Ray, not “hips”, this bible critter had strength in its penis. And what the heck is this supposed to actually mean? The dinos had a lot of strength everywhere in their bodies. Being that dinos are likely from eggs, no navels either.

Its tail was like a large tree (a cedar).

Ray has to directly ignore the bible here. The bible says “He moves his tail like a cedar” which indicates that somehow the tail moves like a tree. Not that the tail is the size of a cedar. We also have evidently a bible beast that has testicles with sinews that are wrapped together.

It had very strong bones.

Yep, so do humans and so do cows.  The bible says that the bones were bronze tubes, not “like” bronze.  Rhinos may have the strongest bones.

Its habitat was among the trees. Drank massive amounts of water. His nose pierced through snares. Then Scripture says, “…He that made him can make his sword approach to him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.”

Again, Ray has to lie about what his bible actually says. This beast supposedly drinks a river, the Jordan. Now that is a rather pitiful river, not wider than a creek here in the eastern US, but drinking a river is not just drinking “massive amounts of water”. Again, whales.

We can also see that the NRSV version of the bible doesn’t agree with Ray’s version. It’s so cute to see this god bragging like any child in a playground ““Look at Behemoth, which I made just as I made you; it eats grass like an ox.16 Its strength is in its loins, and its power in the muscles of its belly.17 It makes its tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are knit together.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like bars of iron.19 “It is the first of the great acts of God— only its Maker can approach it with the sword.20 For the mountains yield food for it  where all the wild animals play.21 Under the lotus plants it lies, in the covert of the reeds and in the marsh.22 The lotus trees cover it for shade,  the willows of the wadi surround it.
23 Even if the river is turbulent, it is not frightened;   it is confident though Jordan rushes against its mouth.24 Can one take it with hooks  or pierce its nose with a snare?”

Sounds rather like a hippo or rhino.   Alas, Ray and conservative Christianity fail again.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation: Ray Comfort thinks he’s being clever again “Is God a Cruel Tyrant?”

Ray Comfort thinks he’s being clever again. He has an attempt to claim his god isn’t a “cruel tyrant”.

My father used to hit me. He would daily leave my mother to raise us kids, and I once saw him kill a helpless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could understandably come to the conclusion that my father was a tyrant.

And of course, there is indeed information missing to explain what Ray is trying to claim.

But listen to some missing information. If I ever lied or stole, my dad cared enough to correct me on the seat of my learning, and for that I greatly respected him and stayed on the straight and narrow. The reason he left my mom each day was to work hard as a carpenter and provide food for our table. And that animal he killed…it was a large bird that had been struck by a car and had been left to die on the side of the road. He put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so.

One has to wonder how many times Ray lied or stole from someone, being a raised as a Christian and all. Must have been often and he still does it. A pity his father isn’t still around. One also has to wonder exactly how Ray’s dad killed an injured bird with his “bare hands”. My father had to kill a hawk that I found; it had been shot and left to die, filled with maggots. He shot it and it died quickly and cleanly.

With that knowledge you can now see that my dad wasn’t a tyrant. He was a loving and kind father.

Yep, we can see that this human wasn’t a tyrant, if somewhat questionable.

Richard Dawkins believes that God is more than just a tyrant. He said:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

But there’s some missing information he’s not giving you that changes everything…for those who will listen.

Dawkins is right, this god is all that he mentions and more (I can give verses if you’d like). We have a god that either intentionally allows the “serpent” in the garden or was too stupid to keep it out. Then this god punishes humans for listening to and believing the second most powerful being in the universe, if we are to believe the bible. We continue on with this god wandering off and when it comes back, it is upset no one is worshipping it anymore, deeming that to be “evil” and then killing everyone on earth (minus 8 including a drunkard), including children, plus animals and plants that had nothing to do with this.

We then head to Exodus, where this god forgets that its people are suffering, and when it does remember, proceeds to mind control people so it can show off. This showing off kills many. Farther along, we have this god killing a child for its parents actions, being afraid of a tall building, and repeatedly screwing up in choosing kings for its supposed “chosen” people.

Then, finally, this god, having repeatedly trying and failing to get its people to do what it wants, decides it needs a blood sacrifice of itself to apologize for it allowing the serpent in.

This is what Ray claims:

This same morally perfect and holy Creator (whose seeming harsh judgments were always “righteous and true altogether”) became a morally perfect human being. He did this to save us from the same just wrath that spilled upon the wicked nations of the Old Testament. Most of us know that Jesus of Nazareth gave His life as a sacrifice for the sin of the world. What they don’t know is that we violated God’s Law (the Ten Commandments) and justly deserve the wrath of the moral Law, but Jesus paid our fine in full. That means that God can legally dismiss our case. He can commute our death sentence and let us live forever, because our fine was paid by Another who then rose from the dead.

“Morally perfect”? Where? Only if one assumes that anything that this god does is “morally perfect” just because it is this god e.g. a morality based on might equals right.  And wrath on the nations in the ancient Middle East?  Where?  No one noticed.

The verse that Ray is quoting from is this, Psalm 19: The law of the Lord is perfect,  reviving the soul; the decrees of the Lord are sure, making wise the simple;  the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eyes; 9 the fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”

Now we have a problem here for Christians since none of them follow these commandments and laws of this god. Not even every Jew follows them these “perfect laws” or even tries.  We also have this psalm that as a great example of the ignorance of bible characters about the universe, assuming that the sun has a tent that this god puts it in.  This is also supposedly David singing, to a creature that killed his child.  It takes a lot of fear and stupidity to laud a child-murderer (of course many Christians will say it’s not “murder” since this god has the right to do whatever it wants with humans).

You know, like a tyrant.

No, “most of us” don’t know or believe that this magical man gave his life for anything. We have a story, that has this magical man really not wanting to do this, and being forced by this god to be a human sacrifice for something it caused to happen. (the gospel of John of course contradicts this). And Ray, sorry to tell you but there are quite a few more commandments from your supposed god than just 10. Ray also argues that we don’t need those commandments in public buildings since “Jesus paid our fine in full.”

One has to wonder what legality that this god is beholden to, if it can “legally dismiss our case”.   That would be something beyond this god.

The same holy God who considers lust to be adultery and hatred to be murder, made provision for His great love and mercy to be extended towards those who repent and trust in the Savior. For the Christian, the cross of Jesus Christ shows that God isn’t the wicked tyrant that foolish and ignorant men make Him out to be. It is the missing information that changes everything.

So, if this god considers even a thought as bad as the act, one has to wonder why this god constantly allows these people to commit their acts, rather than smiting them like he supposedly used to do. He could stop raping priests and pastors, because he let them have their free will in their minds. But this god does nothing at all, not even what a parent would do to correct a child. There is no “love and mercy” toward those who this god intentionally allows harm to come to. Such an incompetent tyrant Ray has as a god.

I’m quite pleased to provide that missing information that Ray chose not to present.

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – when Christians lie about mental illness

Often a theist, usually a Christian, will claim that since they do no harm, why do I attack their claims.  Well, this is why, when a Christian lies about mental health and mental illness.  When their claims will harm someone.  Ray Comfort and his cult now try to make claims about depression, something that many struggle with and that many lose their struggle and commit suicide.   Now, let’s look at the pamphlet that they’ve created.  This is what makes this atheist angry.

IF YOU HAVE EVER had suicidal thoughts, you’re not alone. It’s very common. And if you suffer from depression, you don’t have a mental disease. You are sane and you’re normal, because life is depressing. It’s filled with pain and suffering. As you go through life, your beloved dog dies. So does your sweet grandma. Then you realize that no one survives. We are all going to die and it seems that there’s nothing we can do about it. That’s very depressing. 

TWO QUESTIONS
What is the world’s best-selling book of all time? It’s the Bible. Are you familiar with its story of the rich young ruler who ran to Jesus, knelt down and asked, “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” How would you answer that question? Before you answer, let me give you a quick scenario: Imagine you feel a painful lump under your arm. So you go to the doctor. He examines it, looks concerned, does some tests, and comes back with a grim expression and says, “I’m so sorry to tell you this, but you have lymph node cancer. It has metastasized. You have about two weeks to live. I will give you some medication to help ease the pain. I’m so sorry.” 

The first page mentions the story of the rich young man.  That story, if you are not familiar with it, is where JC says that to follow him one must give up everything, family, worldly goods, etc.   The second has that we are to image we are dying of cancer and some how the first thought should be “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?”   That’s not the first thing on my mind, that would be about my family, not my greed to live forever.   This argument from Ray et all is the “no atheist in foxholes” bit of nonsense.  Alas, for them, there are plenty of atheists in foxholes, and not one Christian who can heal someone like the bible promises.

You go home and lie on your bed. You’re too sick to see anyone or go anywhere. All you can think about is that one question: “What should I do to inherit eternal life?” This isn’t a far-fetched scenario. More than 600,000 Americans will die of cancer in the next twelve months, and over 8.2 million will die of the disease worldwide. Put yourself into that frightening scenario and ask yourself, “What should I do to inherit eternal life?” Do you know the answer? 

Yep, we are all going to die.   Here is where fear is used to try to make people believe in Ray et al’s version of the Christian god.

Each religion claims that they have the “right” answer, and each Christian is sure that their version is the right answer.  They of course don’t agree.   Then we have an argument from popularity to try to convince the reader that the bible has to be right since a lot of people buy it.   Yep, a lot of people do.  My church had many many copies in the pews that were never opened.  We have many moldering away in hotels where they are never opened.   And when Islam becomes the biggest religion, then the Qu’ran will be the biggest selling book, and what *will* Christians do with their failed arguments?

THE CAUSE OF DEPRESSION
According to the world’s best-selling Book, every human being is held in bondage to a haunting fear of death. The Bible says that what Jesus accomplished on the cross was so that . . . [He] might free all those who through [the haunting] fear of death were held in slavery throughout their lives. (Hebrews 2:15, Amplified Bible)

As for what the bible says about the fear of death being the cause of depression, nope.  It’s chemistry.   That’s why chemistry can help control it.  I’m not inclined to believe a book that says that bird blood is a cure for leprosy when it comes to mental health diagnoses.

FEAR’S ANTIDOTE
If you were standing on the edge of a plane 10,000 feet up, thinking about how you are going to jump and hit the ground face-first at 120 mph, you would understandably be terrified. But if I gave you a parachute, the minute you put it on, you will be able to control your fears. If you completely trust that parachute, you will now know that you will land gently at 8 mph, on your feet. Your fear will be in direct proportion to your faith. If you have total faith in the parachute, you will have no fear. Your faith will rid you of fear. 

There’s plenty of reason to trust a parachute, thanks to physics.  Not so much reason to trust a god that does nothing.

Let’s now apply that analogy to faith in Jesus. When He was asked, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He replied: “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ” (Mark 10:18,19) 

Jesus told him that only God is good; only He is morally perfect. Then He gave the man five of the Ten Commandments. This is because we may think that we are good, but the Ten Commandments show us that we’re not. For example, how many lies have you told in your life? Have you ever stolen something (irrespective of its value)? Have you taken God’s name in vain (including “OMG”)? Jesus said that if we look with lust, we commit adultery in the heart (see Matthew 5:27,28). Have you ever looked with lust? 

Here we go with Christians citing the commandments, in the confusion that there are only ten of them.  Indeed, how many Christians have stolen something, have taken their gods name in vain?  How many have allows people to work on a sabbath without murdering them?  How many have them eaten shrimp and worn poly/cotton shirts?

If you answered “Yes” to these questions, you’ve admitted that you are a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart. So if God judged you by the Ten Commandments on Judgment Day (we’ve looked at four of them), would you be innocent or guilty? No doubt you (like the rest of us) will be guilty. If you’re guilty on Judgment Day, will you go to Heaven or Hell? If any of us were judged by the Ten Commandments, we would justly end up in Hell. What then should you do to be saved from death and Hell? 

And here we go with Ray et al insisting that everyone is a horrible person, again to scare people.  And of course these same people support a unrepentant lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer with no problem as long as they get power.  Such good Trumpies they are.

Fortunately, there is an answer to the question, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Just over 2,000 years ago, God became a perfect, sinless human being in Jesus of Nazareth. The Bible says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh . . . (1 Timothy 3:16) And the reason He became a human being was to suffer and die on the cross. When Jesus was on the cross He took the punishment for the sin of the world. We broke God’s Law (the Ten Commandments are called “the moral Law”) and Jesus paid the fine. That’s what happened on the cross. That’s why He cried out, “It is finished!” just before He died. In other words, the debt has been paid. 

If you’re in court and someone pays your fine, the judge can legally let you go even though you’re guilty. God can dismiss our case, and legally let us live forever, because Jesus paid our fine on the cross: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). Then Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death. Today, if you repent and trust in Jesus, God promises to give you eternal life as a free gift. 

Ah, no, that’s not what happened on the cross.  That is a story.  This god decided, after failing multiple times, that it needed a human sacrifice to make itself happy.  What a silly story.

Do you know what “death” is? It’s our wages. The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). We earn the sentence of death by our sin. It’s like a judge saying to a mass murderer, “You have earned the death penalty.” Death is evidence that God is serious about sin. In His morally perfect eyes, our sin is deadly serious. Today, right now, please confess and forsake your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ (like you’d trust a parachute). Do that, and God will not only save you from death, but He will save you from the fear of death. Remember the analogy of how fearful it would be to jump 10,000 feet without a parachute? And how, if you were given a parachute, you could control your fears? Put on the Lord Jesus Christ and trust in Him with all of your heart, and you will rid yourself of that haunting fear that causes depression. 

So, God is “serious”.  Hmmm, God sounds like a mafia don.  God also has a man’s family murdered to show off its power.  Hmmm, maybe it *is* a mafia don?

Millions of human beings suffer from depression because they live without faith in Jesus. They have no hope in their death. But in Christ, you now have a living hope, both in this life and in your death. You need never fear as long as you trust in Jesus. Look at the promises of Scripture: What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31–39) 

To grow in your faith, make a habit of reading your Bible daily. Without fail. And make sure that you obey what you read. God will never let you down. Visit Living Waters.com where you will find many helpful resources, as well as our advertising-free YouTube channel (which is seen by millions): YouTube.com/LivingWaters. Condensed from The Final Curtain by Ray Comfort (available at Amazon.com or LivingWaters.com). 

So we end up with the usual lies from Christians that as long as you believe, then this god won’t give you more than you can handle.  We know that is a lie since there are more than a few Christians who commit suicide.  All these claims end up blaming the victim when this god does nothing.    Ray et al claim that they didn’t believe “enough”, they didn’t pray in the “right” way, and as a final lie, that their god wanted it this way.

An imaginary being doesn’t help depression.   Therapy and drugs can, not always but we are always perfecting them.  Don’t be lied to by people who only want your validation for their beliefs, and they don’t care if you die to get them.

 

 

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – us atheists haven’t heard a “clear logical defense of Christianity”??

Heinlein was a little too wanting women barefoot and pregnant, but he did get it right about religion.

As my title says us atheists haven’t heard a “clear logical defense of Christianity”.  At least that’s what good ol’ Ray Comfort says.  He wants Christians, and atheists, to come to his failing Ark and listen to what he claims to be this unicorn, since, no, there isn’t any such thing as a “clear logical defense of Christianity”.  Even Christians can’t convince each other that they have the “right” answer and the “right” Christianity.

Now, this supposedly will be a 5 day conference over Easter weekend “This five-day conference also features a Good Friday service with our President, Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne, and a free Easter sunrise service on Sunday morning, which you can attend even if you can’t make the conference!”  and will have the Answers In Genesis people there too.  I wonder, can we have a fight between old earth Christians and young earth ones?  For this being a “five day conference” you get a total of 14 hours of rehashed stuff, maybe seen Ken Ham for two hours (or pay an extra fee as is likely) and the rest is movies and preaching, or expecting you to get your own food since that’s not covered either.

Now this “priceless” bit of nonsense is:  $500 for a family (only families that are approved of AIG, of course, and only one child gets to eat free per adult who buys food at the museum), or $250 for a couple or $199 for a single person.  This is of course not including lodging, and gee, you get tickets to see something you’ve probably seen before, the failed Ark. Of course, there is an upcharge for “certain events” not defined.  Oh and we mustn’t forget the 20% off of the crap in the souvenir shop.

One of the speakers is Jason Lisle, who actually has a PhD in astrophysics, and not so strangely has not published one paper on how that idiocy happened, but plenty on how the sun actually works. So much for that long promised “evidence” for creation that AIG, and other peddlers of lie claim to have “real soon now”.  They also have one other scientist, Georgia Purdom, who sadly has a PhD in molecular genetics, but has chosen to study “She seeks to understand the original, created, “very good” roles of bacteria in the pre-Fall world and genetic mechanisms that have led to their adaptations and pathogenicity in a post-Fall world.”  It appears she is studying evolution, but well, don’t all it that, and well, hers has to be by magic.  It is no surprise at all that neither publish in peer reviewed journals anymore.  They know that their creationist nonsense won’t pass muster, so they hide in creationist magazines.

So, we have Living Waters charging more money for what they’ve said before, and what has failed before.  I’d be happy to give an education on creationist claims to any one who wants it entirely for free.  For you see, Ray won’t be saying anything new; Ray has published the same stuff for decades, and the last time he wanted to educate atheists, he tried to put a certificate for a Subway sub in his book just to get people to take it, wasn’t allowed and failed miserably (he did give the certificates to the homeless after being shamed into it).  They just want your money for their “megaconference”.  I have run conferences.  If you need more than 15 minutes between topics, then you are just padding things to charge more.

Nothing like TrueChristians(tm) cheating each other.

 

 

Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – and now for more questionable Christian nonsense

and this is the fellow that some atheists claim is a nice guy
and this is the fellow that some atheists claim is a nice guy

During the run up to the Reason Rally, Ray Comfort was touting his new movie The Atheist Delusion. This was going to be *the* answer to non-Christians, and it was going to be such a surprise. He was also going to give out $25,000 in Subway gift cards to anyone who would take his book.

Well, the reviews are out and thanks to his fellow Christians, we know that yet again Ray has nothing new and charges $19.95 for the pleasure of discovering this. (it’ll be free in a couple weeks on youtube)  The supposed surprise in TAD is the same argument he’s used before, that DNA needs a creator and that creator has to be his version of the Christian god. No evidence for this claim, and a lot of edited interviews that purport to have atheists agreeing with him.

Christians, you have a choice: give Ray more money for a repeat performance in order for him to make more retreads, or perhaps give $20 to an organization that actually does something for someone. Your local food pantry can use that $20, your local animal shelter or human shelter, Oxfam, Doctors without Borders, Smile Train, etc.

Now, what is more beneficial: giving money in an a desperate attempt to shore up ones faith, a faith that supposedly doesn’t need evidence, or giving money to help people who need it?   There are piles of evidence that DNA is less than perfect, which makes the Christian god look a little odd for making something not completely efficient and that won’t cause horrible maladies in the creatures that bear it.  We also have evidence that DNA and therefore genes have evolved, something that many Christians claim isn’t true.  The most recent bit of evidence is the genetic portrait being researched for the last common universal ancestor aka LUCA.  What causes problems for theist claims is that they want to benefit from the same science that shows that their myths are wrong.   The same science that supports the LUCA is the same science that allows them to have modern foodstuffs, modern medicine, GPS, computers, etc.

Update: now two months and still no sign of the charitable donation of the $25K in Subway gift cards that Comfort said he was going to make since he chose not to give them out at the Reason Rally.