Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – it’s great fun when a Catholic lies

Well, let’s see what false things a Christian has come up with now.  There is a rather nasty Catholic, Trent, who is on Youtube, who has no problem lying and failing in this video “5 Atheist Double Standards“. Again, this is pretty much a typing exercise for me, to waste some time at work since we’ve had a small covid outbreak here in the leadership, nothing to do (and my throat is feeling funny…..arrgh.)

First we have the false claim that Trent says he doesn’t bring this up to “pick on atheists”.  He does do that, this being an attempt to cast himself as the innocent.  He isn’t.  he claims that atheists use “double standards” and “logical fallacies”.   That some atheists think they need to apologize for more aggressive ones doesn’t mean that the aggressive ones are wrong. 

There is nothing false about how Chrsitians worship a magical being that the bible claims to live in the sky aka “magical sky daddy”.   It demands that humans call it father, too.  Ridiculing false claims made by people who want to control others by what they claim this being says is deserved. 

Trent uses bad arguments too, though he would like everyone to think his are not. 

The first supposed double standard is what Trent calls the “ancient document” double standard, which is a common Christian claim that their bible should be considered an ancient document and treated like other ancient documents.   Alas, for Trent, all ancient documents are considered “guilty” aka suspect, unless there is evidence to support the claims in those documents.   If the claim is that someone was a general, or lost  battle, we know that there are generals and battles so there is less reason to consider a document about them to be suspect.  If the claims are about magic and gods, they are suspect since we have no evidence for such things.    

The bible is under intense scrutiny since it has no evidence to support its essential claims, which include that magic happens, gods exist and one should live according to what ones finds in the bible.   It is also under scrutiny since the authors are unknown in most cases, so the author’s intent, cultural background, etc are not known.  There is also the problem of it having events that no one could have witnessed but we strangely have records of discussions, events, etc presented as truth.

One cannot use a claim to prove that claim.  The bible is only a set of claims and those can’t be used to prove the bible’s claims are true.  It’s rathe like saying the qu’ran is true because the qu’ran says it is true.  A Christian wouldn’t accept that so there is no reason to accept their claim that the bible can be used as evidence for itself.  There is no evidence the bible isn’t a human document. 

One cannot use the bible to “prove mundane historical facts” since it is the only source of the claim that Jesus’ existence is a historical fact.  Again, it is only the claim, not evidence for the claim.  We have no evidence of either magic Jesus or delusional Jew Jesus.  There is no evidence that the apostles existed or were martyrs.  There is no evidence that anyone noticed Jesus at all as a faith healer, or as a fellow followed around by a literal Roman legion’s worth of men in Roman-occupied Palestine.  There is no evidence of a cruxifiction, or of a day that there was a major earthquake, the sky darkening and Jewish dead wandering around Roman-occupied Jerusalem on a Passover. You’d think that maybe Caiaphas would have noticed that. 

Yep, people claimed to see Jesus.  People also claimed to have seen Elvis when he died too.  Baseless claims are wortheless.  Trent also has the problem that JC’s own people didn’t even recognize him, so claims of seeing Jesus are highly suspect. 

Trent doesn’t want to have to show that Jesus rose without the bible since he can’t.  All he has are baseless claims.  Trent can use the bible as a starting point, as any historical scholar would, and then support the document with evidence.  This is how any historical scholar goes about showing that Julius Caesar existed, that Alexander the Great existed, etc.  Until the various books of theh bible are supported by evidence they are not historical documents, except for being a recording on what a certain group believed at a certain time, not that what they believed is true.  The bible has no basic facts, they are, again, baseless claims, until evidence supports them. 

So, atheists treat the bible as any other historical document and Trent has made a false accusation.  We have given it a chance and it has been two thousand years of desperate looking by Christians that has failed to produce evidence to support their claims.  Tacitus, Josephus, etc all present claims by believers which is no evidence that what they believed is true.  If this is the case, then Trent must accept that any other writings about what believers of other gods believed makes those gods just as real as his.  Of course, he won’t.  He is as much of a liar about the actions of non Chrsitains as old Pope Leo.  Other sources do mention miracles and neither historical scholars, or Christians like Trent, accept those claims as true.  Tacitus claimed that a roman emperor did miracles just like jesus.  I’m sure Trent doesn’t accept that as true and neither do historians.  His bible is hearsay, nothing more.  And people die for many stupid things, but Trent has the problem that there is no evidence that the apostles were martyrs, and anyone after then would have been believing nonsense, like any Muslim who blows themselves up. 

trent has no “basic facts” more than there are in a spider-man comic book.   Which leads into Trent’s next failure, his “spider-man objection”.   Unfortunately, all Trent has is that it’s no problem that his bible contradicts itself, makes observable false claims, etc.  He and only he knows what the “good” parts are.  He doesn’t and again, has no evidence for his claims.  He is simply one more Christian who picks and chooses his way though the bible, making what he wants up in his own image. 

The writer of Acts, unknown, does get some places right.  So?  That doesn’t mean the rest of the nonsense is true.  Trent uses the logical fallacy of composition here. Per Trent, the bible isn’t a human document, so why is it wrong in so many cases?  The bible, and Christians, can show it is true, with evidence.  If they can’t show any, then there is no reason to believe them or it.  They claim it is true:  it’s their burden of truth to demonstrate that, no one else’s. 

Trent also claims that Josephus and Tacitus “missed important events”, when he can’t show that these events happened at all.  He assumes the events happened when there is no evidence for them.  Again, if Claudius expelled the Jews, and it was claimed in a document, that document would have to be supported by evidence since it is just the claim.   It’s also hilarious to see Trent try to claim that since the authors of the bible said it was true, then it must be, showing he is right back to that circular argument he claimed failed earlier.  He then tries to claim that absence of evidence supports his claims, that there weren’t as many people writing.  No evidence of that.  Like many Christians, Trent can’t decide if he wants Jesus to be well-known, or to be not known at all, and his arguments are not consistent when he wants to claim that no one noticed Jesus but then turns around and tries to claim gee, they really did notice him.   He wasn’t just a “faith healer” as Trent tries to claim. 

Jesus turns water into wine at the wedding in Cana

Jesus heals an official’s son at Capernaum in Galilee

Jesus drives out an evil spirit from a man in Capernaum

Jesus heals Peter’s mother-in-law sick with fever

Jesus heals many sick and oppressed at evening

First miraculous catch of fish on the Lake of Gennesaret

Jesus cleanses a man with leprosy

Jesus heals a centurion’s paralyzed servant in Capernaum

Jesus heals a paralytic who was let down from the roof

Jesus heals a man’s withered hand on the Sabbath

Jesus raises a widow’s son from the dead in Nain

Jesus calms a storm on the sea

Jesus casts demons into a herd of pigs

Jesus heals a woman in the crowd with an issue of blood

Jesus raises Jairus’ daughter back to life

Jesus heals two blind men

Jesus heals a man who was unable to speak

Jesus heals an invalid at Bethesda

Jesus feeds 5,000 plus women and children

Jesus walks on water

Jesus heals many sick in Gennesaret as they touch his garment

Jesus heals a gentile woman’s demon-possessed daughter

Jesus heals a deaf and dumb man

Jesus feeds 4,000 plus women and children

Jesus heals a blind man at Bethsaida

Jesus heals a man born blind by spitting in his eyes

Jesus heals a boy with an unclean spirit

Miraculous temple tax in a fish’s mouth

Jesus heals a blind, mute demoniac

Jesus heals a woman who had been crippled for 18 years

Jesus heals a man with dropsy on the sabbath

Jesus cleanses ten lepers on the way to Jerusalem

Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead in Bethany

Jesus restores sight to Bartimaeus in Jericho

Jesus withers the fig tree on the road from Bethany

Jesus heals a servant’s severed ear while he is being arrested

The second miraculous catch of fish at the Sea of Tiberias

Part 2 – Paul can’t even get his origin story straight and is terribly ignorant about Jesus so there is no reason to think that Jesus appeared to him, or existed.   

Trent has number 3 as being that atheists claim that his god is evil but also claim evil doesn’t exist.   Hmm, I do wonder where an atheist has that evil doesn’t exist.   The silly satan doesn’t but I’m quite sure that evil exists, subjective as it may be.  Trent then quotes Dawkins.  Happily,atheists, at least me, don’t worship Dawkins.  I don’t care what he says.   In this case it is plausibly true that the Christian god is the most disgusting literary character ever.  It is demonstrably all of the things listed.  And Trent can’t show otherwise, unsurprisingly. The bible show quite a petty little god.  Then Trent quotes Dawkins again, which has Dawkins saying that there is no morality innate to the universe, which isn’t saying that there is no evil.  Evil is a human conception, what hurts us and others. 

Of course, Trent tries the argument from morality to defend his god.  Alas, not one Christian can show that this god exist or is moral.  They all make up what they want to think it considers moral and immoral, and surprise! don’t agree at all.  Morality is a human invention, likely starting from empathy, and ending up as laws in civilizations.  The less helpful ones discarded, the helpful ones kept.  I can happily judge Trent’s god as immoral since my morals indicate this and yep, they are subjective.  I can know that I don’t want to be killed by genocide and can imagine another human might want the same thing. 

Trent’s morality is also subjective, depending on who/what does an action, not that any action has an innate morality.  So he has no problem when his god commits genocide, kills a child for someone else’s action, and tells slaves to never seek their freedom.  There is no double standard, just a Christian who lies when he claims that his opinion is “objective morality”.  I do love Trent’s attempt to excuse his god’s evident allowing of suffering and his need to be a thought police type. There is no need of teleology, only human desires since the universe isn’t a thing that can care.   Happily, no one needs Trent or his god.  His worldview is consistent for any sycophant to a petty tyrant, and his morality is nothing more than might equals right: “life i’m not the author of life like god is but god created the whole universe he created everyone and he has the right to give us as long or as little life as he desires because he is the author of life.”

So far, Trent has made quite a lot of hay from his strawmen versions of atheists.  He also seems to think that all atheists must think the same.  We don’t.  Whatever Luke says isn’t necessarily what any other atheists believes.  And atheists must provide evidence, just like anyone else.  In my own experience, I’ve not run into any atheists who believe in moral objectivity.  I’m sure some do.  I don’t.

Number 3 supposed double standard is that how dare non-christians point out how many Christians are liars, failures, and generally nasty people and dare to think Christianity is harmful and false because of this.   Well, Trent, it’s because your god does nothing to stop this and “once upon a time” it supposedly killed those who didn’t do what it said.  It isn’t a comparison between good and bad Christian, it is an observation of your god’s impotence, thus demonstrating your religion and bible lie.  Atheists don’t claim to believe the same things; Christians do.   Atheists have one thing in common: a conclusion that there is not a god or gods.  Trent is an atheist too, btw.  Just not a pan-atheist like me.   We all have different morals and worldview, and yep, there are some asshole atheists.  Not because of atheism, because of them.

“i’ve never had to sign anything like [an anti-sexual harassment pledge} that at a christian conference”  That’s because your conservative Christianity doesn’t care if women are sexually harassed or not, dear.   Perhaps you shouldn’t have used that as an example. 

As I noted before, there is no one Christian morality since Christians don’t agree, and they are all hypocrites when it comes to each other’s “truth”.   His attempt to excuse his god’s failure by “there’s going to be bad people in every belief system” is just great since it shows that Christianity is nothing special, and just human invented like every other one. 

Amusingly, Trent tries to claim that atheists go around saying “look at this brilliant atheistic scientist or look at this really reasonable atheistic philanthropist aren’t they great aren’tthey such great examples of reason unchained from religion”  We don’t and this is why Trent has to claim that it’s “subtle” since he has no evidence for this at all.  There are no “virtues” of atheism.  Trent just made that up too in his attempt to pretend that everyone acts like ignorant Christians like himself.  Happily we don’t.

As for Martin Luther King, he did some good and he was evidently a cheat too.  Does Trent want to claim that for his Christianity?  He picked and chose through his religion just like Trent.  

Trent also tries to claim that if certain people had not become Christians their life would have been different, in evidently a bad way, which he has no evidence for either.  Yep, if Christianity were true, and if Christians could agree on what their truth was, we should be able to expect coherence and better behavior than we see.  WE don’t see this nor do we see any Christian able to do what Jesus promised, so no reason to believe this nonsense at all. It’s not a gotcha moment at all, just Christians having no evidence for their claims, and then whining when they are asked for some.  We can’t identify Christians by their “fruits” at all.  As for Trent’s promise of “other reasons”, funny how he doesn’t give them.

Number 4 is “ridiculing christian censorship but excommunicating atheistic heretics” sorry, Trent but we don’t’ have heretics and we don’t “excommunicate” them.   That’s a catholic thing.  Atheists have many worldviews, and not everyone agrees.  So we all go our separate ways and have no problem criticizing each other. Stephen Woodford can keep his beliefs, no one else has to appreciate them or not contest them.  He is responsible for his beliefs, no one else is nor does anyone have to respect them.  Again, atheists only have one thing common.  There is no atheist handbook.  And yep, every choice has a consequence. 

The point that Trent evidently is trying to make is that how dare atheists make fun of Christians who point fingers at each other and claim the Christians who don’t believe like they do are wrong.  He evidently thinks that we shouldn’t be making fun of Christians having contradictory “truths”.  Too bad, we will.   I do love that he thinks that sex offenders shouldn’t be considered pariahs by atheists, and the only reason he would say that is that the Catholic Church has quite a problem with those.  They didn’t consider sex offenders pariahs, so no one should? 

what Trent forgets is that his church killed people for not agreeing with them, not only exiling them.  We see that there is plenty of freedom of thought in Christianity, look at all of the sects that Trent thinks are wrong!  But each sect doesn’t want any freedom of thought, and pretends that only their version is the right one, even the RCC which says that everyone but them has only “part” of the right answer.

Hmm, I do wonder what Trent thinks is “secular liberal dogma”.  And where have atheists been “imposing” it?   By giving people who aren’t Christians the right not to obey them?  Hmm, the RCC and other Christian groups have spent millions in trying to get their imaginary nonsense into law so everyone must obey it. 

Then poor Trent plays his last card: a baseless claim that atheists don’t criticize Muslims like they do Christians.   He fails here too.   Happily, I and other atheists, are quite equal opportunity criticizers.   I have no problem telling Muslims they as ridiculous, violent and ignorant  as Christians.   The reason that Christians get criticized a lot is that they are constantly trying to force their lies on others here in the US.  Muslims, not so much.  From what Christians have done, we can see that yep, they do want to take over the US.   They want people to obey old testament laws (funny how they want the first ten commandments up in courthouses and schools).   In texas, we have idiots demanding that “In god we trust” be in every school.  Christians have shown they want to make women second class citizens, removing their rights.  No one needs an imagination, we see it right now.  Trent is quite stupid if he thinks he can lie about this.  He lies and claims that every Christian agrees with him and “just doesn’t want to be involved with evil”.   Poor dear, other Christians think that what he calls evil isn’t evil at all, and poor Trent can’t show that it is evil.  He only has a baseless opinion.  Making a cake for a wedding isn’t being involved in it, just like making a cake for a baseball game isn’t being involved in the game.  Only the doctor and woman are involved in an abortion, no Christians involved at all. 

Funny how Christians don’t want to left alone nor do they want to leave anyone else alone.  Currently there are Christians bothering people at the PP office just down the street.  So much for Trent’s lies. 

Where are the Muslims trying to impose their laws on people here in the US, dear Trent?  And then tell me where Christians have tried to keep them out too, since they have.  I have also ridiculed Muslims about how they treat people in their theocracies, theocracies that some Christians want too.  I would not stand for that here in the US, and advocate for Muslim countries to not be traded with because of their ignorance and violence. Yep, a Handmaiden’s Tale is what they have in those countries and is what Christiansn like Trent want here.   If a woman can’t make her own decisions, what does Trent think that is equal to?   

In “very christian subcultures” in the US, you *do* have women and girls not having the same education and opportunities as men, with the fundamentalist Mormons, the amish, etc.   In the US, Christianity is indeed the biggest threat to women, and other religions are in other countries with their ignorance and violence.  Trent’s whataboutism doesn’t make Christianity any better.  Christians and muslims have harmed non-christians and non-muslims purely because of their religion.  He lies when he has said that Christianity has promoted the “natural right to religious freedom”.  We got to see how that is a lie with how Catholics and other Christians tried to strip native peoples of their religion by the sword and by schools, and managed to kill lots, hiding the graves. 

All in all, we have lies from Trent. No surprise at all.  Good to know that Trent even acknowledges his god won’t protect him when he says he is afraid of criticizing Muslims.