Dr. Darren Slade over at the Global Center for Religious Research has written an excellent essay about the excuses that theists, especially conservative Christians, give when it comes to mass shootings. In case you might not know, “miso” means “hate” and yes, one can do that even for imaginary characters.
“God and Mass Shootings: A Case for Misotheism
Misotheists argue there exist certain situations that demand an intervention by any agent available because of a prerequisite belief in the sanctity and quality of life. Had it not been for GOD refusing to intervene, those little children could have lived a full and healthy quality of life. This prerequisite principle is the empirical basis for every ethical system today, concluding that the lives of children are inherently valuable and warrant protection as an end unto itself. Indeed, agents cannot act morally toward a dead person, making the intrinsic value of life a precondition for its own sake. Hence, ethical agents have a duty to preserve each other’s right to life.”
Read the rest here.
Oh and before any of my theist subscribers try to claim free will, the bible has many times when this god has interfered with human action.
28 thoughts on “Not So Polite Dinner Conversation – an excellent essay about morality, gods and mass shootings”
It would be more amusing if Misotheist meant people who worship Miso soup 🙂
Heh. It’d be as effective and more tasty
Unsurprisingly, SOM has tried to comment and make excuses for his god. What a twit.
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What was it Lex Luthor said in Batman vs Superman? ‘If God is all good, he cannot be all-powerful, and if he is all-powerful, he cannot be all good’, or words to that effect.
I think about that quote a lot.
““See, what we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Joe, ’cause God is tribal. God takes sides. No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy’s fist and abominations. I figured out way back if God is all-powerful, He cannot be all good. And if He is all good, then He cannot be all-powerful.”” – Lex Luthor
or the good ol’ Epicurus quote:
“If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?”
Christians try so very hard to avoid this problem and they always fail. It always comes down to the “mysterious ways” or the Christian claiming that this god is “teaching” us something by allowing evil, which makes this god an asshole since I don’t want anyone harmed to teach me anything at all.
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The article is VERY long … and my attention span gave up about half-way. However, I did skip down to the closing and found this closing comment to be spot-on:
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“The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
This simple – yet so complicated in the minds of atheists – philosophy continues to be understood by a grand total of 0 online atheists.
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Why thanks so much, polykarp! You’ve nicely demonstrated that the morality of Christianity is nothing more than might equals right.
Soooo… God’s morality of doing nothing to prevent the murder of children, does not bother you?
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Just because a philosophy is simple, polykarposlatinus, doesn’t mean that it’s true or has any value. I see no meaningful difference between random misfortune and divinely-ordained misfortune – at the end of the day all you have is a deity that can’t be arsed to use its divine powers to relieve human suffering.
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and unsurprisingly, it seems that poly did nothing more than play the seagull here.
I am, most likely to annoyance of most, going to cite free will here. It’s very true that multiple times in the Bible God intervened to stop a situation, Jesus’s sacrifice in fact is the best example of this. That being said, the Bible explicitly states that we will face trials and tribulation, so God never said everything would always be sunny and bright. God gives us free will, that means that some people are going to do the wrong things. God actually does intervene in this though, whether we see it or not. For starters, He told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple. When they did, He gave us, conscience, morality, and a list of rules and commandments with which we can shape our lives in the right direction, and then He sent His Son to die for us so that we might be forgiven when we go astray and have the ability to get to heaven. It’s not my choice whether or not the atheists here choose to believe this, but I wanted to point two things out here. Number one, a person who writes, according to Nan, a “VERY long” essay attempting to blame a being they, presumably, don’t believes exists, is most likely very bitter about something; I would also question this persons line of thought. Furthermore, it seems to me that such an endeavor as this essay is such a waste of time; if you don’t believe in God, fine, but at least devote your time to writing something useful. Finally, atheists have long proven that they believe they do not need God, therefore, I cannot understand why they are so upset when He doesn’t intervene; after all, why should an atheist expect God to intervene if they think he doesn’t exist? One final thought, God can intervene miraculously sometimes, but we also can’t foresee how certain acts or situations will effect the future. As terrible as a shooting is, perhaps God did not intervene because that shooting will profoundly change our world and help us make sure that shootings happen less; in other words, if God had prevented that shooting, maybe He also allowed many future shootings. The point is, we do not have the understanding of God, so why should we blame Him when something bad happens? Rather, we should use tragic events as a means to come together and find solutions to some of these problems, not tear each other down, as some people have tried to do here, and in many places elsewhere.
You will cite free will, and I, and most here will just sigh at your ignorance, Alex. There is no free will in your bible, and as soon as your god assigned the idiotic “original sin”, free will was done.
The bible also says this god will protect its followers from everything. So all your argument ends up being is a display on how the bible is incoherent.
Let me cite those verses for you.
“7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asked for bread, would give a stone? 10 Or if the child asked for a fish, would give a snake? 11 If you, then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” Matthew 7
“19 Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.”” Matthew 18
funny how no exceptions are mentioned here or in the following.
“22 Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and if you do not doubt in your heart but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.” Mark 11
“17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”” Mark 16
unsurprisingly, not a single Christian can do this. Did the bible lie or are you all simply not getting something right?
“12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me[f] for anything, I will do it.” John 14
“7 If you abide in me and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” John 15
“13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up, and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5
It is not until 1 John where the excuse that one has to pray for what is already this god’s will, which makes prayer useless and it is a lovely excuse for when the aforementioned promises fail.
In Eden, your god said that the entire garden was for humans in the first story, and in the second version it says don’t eat or you will die that day. So we have no mention of magic trees or we have a lie. You get to choose which one is the “real” story, Alex.
This god of yours didn’t want humans to know right and wrong, Alex. It only wanted obedience. The only reason we have a conscience, per your myths, is because Eve ate the apple. The god wanted us ignorant. Eve gave us morality. And then, rather than just resetting things with Adam and EVe, your god throws a tantrum, and blames everyone for what they did, destroying any concept of free will. If I am damned through no fault of my own, there is no free will. Then your god decides, after failing for supposed thousands of years, that it needs a death by torture to make it feel better. That’s simply disgusting.
Then, Alex, you try the usual whine of “oh dear, why do atheists point out how idiotic we are if they don’t believe in it?” It’s because your lies cause real harm, Alex. No one needs to be “bitter” to point out lies. Devoting one’s time to pointing out lies is useful, and happily, here in the US, Chrsitianity is losing followers. From a 90+% belief rate, we are down into the 70s. And in addition to that, Christians all contradict each other, so there aren’t even that many TrueChristians(tm) in existence; they all hate each other.
Your religion depends on victim blaming when its lies and false promises fail. You invent excuses, including that someone didn’t pray “correctly”, wasn’t a “real” Christian, to cling to this harmful nonsense.
You have no evidence that this god intervenes at all, “miraculously” or not. You try to offer the tedious Christian claim of “but but maybe god needs to kill a child for his “plan”” Hmm, if there is a plan, then there is no free will, ifthis god must take the life of someone, the ultimate ceasing of free will.
You are just one more selfish, ignorant Christian, Alex. There is no surprises here with your excuses. You try to claim “but but we can’t understand god” when you claim to constantly understand him when it comes to what morals this god wants, etc. it’s ever so convenient to claim “God’s mysterious ways”. You have no problem at all praising god when something good happens, stealing the honor and responsibility from humans as is the wont of selfish, greedy Christians.
I don’t need kids being literally ripped apart by bullets to “come together” or to “teach”. That you do shows exactly how Christianity is evil. And yes dear, I can say that with my happily subjective morality. I would not accept such atrocities by a human so I certainly wouldn’t from a god.
As for your rules, funny how you and other Christians don’t follow them when you don’t feel like it. You invent reasons why the inconvenient ones don’t apply to you.
I’m not here to argue with you Vel, though, I am a little annoyed that you demand Christians be so literal with the Bible all the while making assumptions and forming your own interpretations of what they’ve said, whether on purpose or by accident. You may call me greedy, selfish, willfully ignorant (I particularly like that one, I think I even wrote a poem about it), and all the rest, but I stand by what I say. Lies are, of course, harmful but you are *assuming* that Christians are lying, there is really nothing to prove that you are correct about that. Like I’ve said before you cannot prove God does not exist, therefore, logically, isn’t there a possibility that He does? I never said I needed children ripped apart by bullets to come together, I said we shouldn’t use tragedies as a way to tear people down but bring us together (big difference). I also never said that people didn’t pray “correctly.” Those are just interpretations or assumptions you made. As for the verses you mentioned, we must take those in conjunction with other verses in the Bible; at the end of the Lords Prayer it says “Your Kingdom come, Your will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven.” I’m not saying God wants anybody getting hurt, but we must except that He knows better than us when it comes to where and when He should intervene, and that His will is for the best and should Trump any desires we have. Like I said, I didn’t think you or anybody else really, would listen to me, but seriously, why do *you* waste your time doing this sort of thing? If you honestly wanted to make a difference in this world for the better, you’d stop calling people idiots, fools, and all the rest, those are not the traits of a person who wants to offer help or improve anything. I really wish you would just rethink the stuff you’re doing because it kind of makes me sad that you would think this sort of thing helps anybody, in my mind it just causes even more division. I mean, how will you ever make allies and friends if you consider yourself superior in knowledge to everyone else and can’t have a discussion without trying to demean somebody you don’t agree with?
So, Alex, you complain that I expect Christians to know what their bible says, and to agree on it. Christians can’t agree on how to interpret their bible, nor agree on what should be taken literally, metaphorically, etc. Not one of you can show that your version is any more right than the Christians you disagree with. Now, why is that, Alex?
You are indeed greedy, selfish and willfully ignorant. I’m glad you like that one, it describes Christianity to a “t”.
I am not assuming Christians are lying at all. I have demonstrated that fact. You have yet to support your claism that your version is true, Alex.
I can indeed show that this god does not exist. You have yet to present evidence it does. That is rather telling. We also have evidence that entirely different things happened at any time claimed for the essential events in the bible. Evidence of absence and absence of evidence are quite telling.
I do love that all you have is a “possiblity” that your version of your god exists. You don’t even have that though, since, again, you have not a shred of evidence for such a being existing. Hmmm, per your desperate claim, it is possible that Ra, Odin, Zeus, Vishnu, etc exist too. Now, do you think they exist, Alex?
Let’s see what you said about why this god allows such things as Uvalde, and tragedies, Alex.
“As terrible as a shooting is, perhaps God did not intervene because that shooting will profoundly change our world and help us make sure that shootings happen less; in other words, if God had prevented that shooting, maybe He also allowed many future shootings. The point is, we do not have the understanding of God, so why should we blame Him when something bad happens? Rather, we should use tragic events as a means to come together and find solutions to some of these problems, not tear each other down, as some people have tried to do here, and in many places elsewhere.”
So we have the claim that this god needs such things to happen, and that these tragic events should be used to come together. And now you say ” I said we shouldn’t use tragedies as a way to tear people down but bring us together (big difference).” Aka don’t use this tragedy to point out how your god fails and fails and fails. Do tell how murder should “Bring people together”, Alex. I’ll be happy to wait for you to come up with something for that one.
I haven’t made any interpretation or assumptions about you and your claims about people not doing what this god want, e.g. praying correctly. You have repeatedly invented excuses why this god doesn’t answer prayers, Alex. You do again right here, with your claim that prayers have to be “correct” aka being in accordance with this god’s “will”. Alas, your bible has directl contradictory quotes about how prayer is answered. Thanks for pointing out those contradictions yourself, Alex.
Your god is omnipotent, so it either wants people to be hurt or it can’t do anything about it (being imaginary and all). You then claim that this god “knows better than us” which means this god indeed *does* want people hurt.
There is no evidence for your god nor that its “will” is for the best. That is a typical excuse for any tyrant, Alex. Der Fuhrer knows better than us when it comes what he does. His will is for the best. We should not question. Sound familiar?
No one listens to you since you are lying, dear, trying so hard to spread your cult’s nonsense. It’s so cute that you ignore what I’ve said about why I point out your lies, Alex. To repeat, your lies cause real harm. I do love the desperate attempts to convince me to stop that, insisting that me showing your lies and showing that you don’t offer help at all. You lie that there is a sickness and that only you have the cure. My revealing that indeed helps and improves much about the human condition. Your hate and ignorance is shownfor what it is, just more cultist nonsense.
I know it makes you sad that someone can show your lies and you don’t get the external validation you crave. I don’t need people like you as allies or friends. And I have made quite a few doing what I do here. I do love the attempts to gin up fear to try to cow me, Alex. Oooh, I’ll die alone and unloved if I don’t agree with Alex.
Sorry, dear, that won’t happen. You and your harmful lies deserve to be revealed, ridiculed and demeaned.
I’m not asking you to agree with me nor did I ever say that *I* have a cure. God has the cure and there is indeed a sickness in this world that only He can cure. It does make me sad that you think I’m lying, but I’m more sad about the fact that someone would do what you and still believe that they are doing good. Even the name of your blog: schadenfreude. Do you know the actual definition of that word? It means, and I quote the oxford dictionary via the internet, “pleasure derived by someone from another person’s misfortune.” I don’t know if you have some other idea behind the naming, but if you don’t that makes me sad; you are professing that you are out to make other people feel hurt and derive pleasure from it and you are leading all the “friends” you have, to do the same. So, you are allowed to believe my God is a murderer or a liar or whatever, but how can you blame Him for hypocrisy when here you are claiming your so concerned about “harmful lies” yet you are just spreading hurt? I could try and tackle some of the claims you’ve made, but you have way to many, it would take way to long, and it would all be for nothing since you wouldn’t except anything I said. Additionally, even I don’t understand everything the Bible talks about, but I read one verse today that reinforces and validates what I was trying to say earlier Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
My understanding is flawed, your understanding is flawed, everyone’s understanding, however much they sharpen it, is ultimately flawed. But God’s understanding is perfect, and when I trust in Him, I don’t have to worry about every single word in the Bible making sense to me. You know, this just hit me now, isn’t it interesting how the most important messages in the Bible, things like God is love, and Jesus’s sacrifice brings forgiveness are the clearest most blaring messages in the Bible? God has given us enough to trust Him, and one day, when we get to heaven, it’ll all make sense. But until then, we just have to have faith. My message wasn’t about you dying alone or friendless, and it isn’t about you agreeing or even liking me. My point was, how are you ever going to make a good difference or bring good change to the world that will *actually* help people instead of bringing more division and hurt, if you always think you are better than anyone who doesn’t agree with you? To me you are not an atheist because you worship yourself. I hope that you will think about this, maybe even talk to God about this (who knows?), I just hope a change for the better is coming for you.
Alex, you do need to learn how to do paragraphs. You have claimed you have a cure since your god is nothing more than an invention in your image. No one needs you aka your god. There is no sickness, only your baseless opinion that we need to agree with your cherry picking of a book that was written by ignorant human beings quite a long time ago.
I’m sure you are indeed sad that I *know* you are lying. You are upset that I’m taking away the validation you so crave, Alex. I’m showing that Christianity doesn’t deserve its ill-earned reputation that it is some hallmark of “good”.
If you had read my introduction here, the section “The Boss’s Office”, you would see why I call my blog Club Schadenfreude. I’ll quote myself: “I also get a great amount of pleasure and satisfaction from those who suffer from their own willful ignorance, greed, bigotry, selfishness or arrogance. Hence, Schadenfreude. Unfortunately, they tend to make the rest of us suffer too. I do take great amusement in allowing people to post their hateful screeds here. Please understand, folks, that any blog owner can see the email address that comments come from. You aren’t anonymous as you think you are.”
Now, you claim that schadenfreude is supposedly “out to make other people feel hurt and derive pleasure from it”. By your own definition, that isn’t what schadenfreude is. If you feel hurt that I do not agree with you and can show that your religion is false, that is unfortunate, but reality can hurt sometimes.
I’m not “allowed” by you to do anything, Alex. You are as impotent as your god. I can demonstrate my points, and yet again, you have nothing. I do love your excuses for not doing so: “I could try and tackle some of the claims you’ve made, but you have way to many, it would take way to long, and it would all be for nothing since you wouldn’t except anything I said.” This is quite typical of Christians when they have nothing, trying to blame me for not blindly accepting their baseless nonsense.
I know that you have no idea what the bible is talking about, but you repeatedly claim you do, and only claim you do not when I point out some particularly vile bit of it. That verse from Proverbs 3 is nothing more than the words of any cult, “believe and don’t question”.
You then try to claim that since you are incompetent, that must mean everyone is. This is a typical attempt to excuse yourself and happily, that’s not how it works. All you have is a baseless set of claims: your god exists, it is perfect, and you are the only one who has the right version. You just shut off your brain when it comes to your religion, insisting that you don’t have to understand it, only obey what you want to pretend it says. Again, this is nothing new, only a typical cultist’s behavior.
There is no evidence your god is “love” and it rather hilariously fails to even come up to the half-decent description of love in the bible itself. Even in the story, there is no sacrifice. Sacrifice is permanent loss. As has been said before, at best, Jesus had a bad weekend. The most blaring message in the bible is blind obedience, nothing more.
You claim that this god of yours has given us “enough” to trust it. It has not, as witnessed by billions who don’t agree with you (most if not every theist makes the same baseless claim too). You keep insisting it will all make sense in heaven, which is nothing more than the baseless promise of someone who doesn’t want to be held accountable. Conveniently, all of your supposed evidence is after we are dead.
Your message was indeed a threat that if I don’t agree with you, I will suffer. Happily, I know better and I know all you have is fear and willful ignorance to keep your religion afloat. I have already made good differences and good changes to the world, Alex. They might be small but they are there. Your attempt to gaslight me doesn’t work.
I am indeed better than at least you, Alex. I don’t need to fantasize that people who disagree with me deserve death and worse. As for thinking about your claims, I have indeed and found your nonsense wanting. And talking to god? I have tried that, when I was a Christian. I was losing my faith and asked for help. Unsurprisingly, imaginary characters don’t help. I may as well talk to my cat. At least the kitty is real.
I don’t need a change for the “better”, aka for me to agree with your nonsense. I have quite a nice life. No god or Alex needed. Pray as hard as you want for me to agree with you, Alex. Your god does nothing at all.
BTW, I have been looking over the last time we interacted and funny how you repeatedly didn’t answer my questions, nor were able to rebut my points:
If anyone is interested, they can take a look in the posts and in the comments.
I do use paragraphs when I’m writing for school and I am quite good at it, at least, according to my professors. But I don’t see why it causes problems here.
Like I said, this time around, I’m not trying to argue with you. You are free to believe whatever you want. Like I said, no point in tackling your claims as you have already pointed out to me that it does not matter to you what other people say and it would be as much a waste of time as writing an essay on why God is responsible for shootings when you don’t believe in Him to begin with. I still don’t understand your point of view though. Proverbs 15:1 States: A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Now, you can choose to believe the Bible is fake all you want, but you must admit that is sound advice, so why is your tactic to try and hurt everyone who doesn’t agree with you? If you were honestly concerned with making a difference and the wellbeing of people, wouldn’t it be better to talk things out politely with people or at least explain your point of view without trying to make everyone seem like a fool or an idiot. Also, if you are so concerned about shootings, then why are you trying to hurt other people? I know you are not physically hurting people, but if you look at the Uvalde shootings, the person who committed that crime suffered rejection and bullying all his life; I’m not necessarily saying that *you* are the cause of a shooting, but I would think that, if you knew this, and if you actually cared, than you would watch what you say, since you never know the effect something might have.
If you cannot look at the Bible and see the same thing I do that is unfortunate, and I would hope that you will be able to change this in the future, as there is a lot of positive stuff in there that you tend to skim over. I like to take it like this, if I except the parts of the Bible that do make sense, then the parts that don’t make sense to me now must have an explanation somewhere in the Bible and therefore I except those as well. Then again, maybe this is not the case and God is just asking me to trust Him.
I don’t think that everyone who disagrees with me deserves hell, I believe that sinners deserve hell, and the only way to be saved is through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and I believe that as a Holy Perfect God, God has the right to punish those who disobey Him.
If you would like to believe you are better than me go ahead, it’s a free country, but I see little to no benefit to doing this; furthermore, you barely know me, so even if your world view is correct, how would you know you are better than me? that’s being judgemental, something I thought you didn’t like when Christians do it.
I’m glad you are looking back over our interactions. I know they weren’t the best, but I said some things in there that I really meant even if I don’t like the way I said them.
As for my anonymity, well I don’t really think I was anonymous to begin with, was I? If someone wants to email me, great! I don’t get enough emails from real people. But I would prefer if you visited my blog and dropped a comment, as I’m still unsure if that feature is available to outside users (of course if you can’t drop a comment I’ll never know LOL). Now, a couple final questions. Number one: What really did prompt you to leave Christianity, like, the exact event or moment. You mention unanswered prayers here but that’s a bit unspecific. If you wouldn’t like to share I understand. Second, why are you so certain that God does not exist? We talked a lot about this before, but I still don’t understand; What is your validation that He isn’t real. Number three: what are these differences you’ve made in the world, and how have they impacted a person, or people, in a positive way? And finally: Why do you do this? I scroll through your blog from time to time and mostly I find you just trying to dish the dirt on other people and raving about how everyone’s an idiot, I know if I tired doing that I would bored, disgusted, and tired, so why are you so committed to doing this?
Well, Alex, you have underlined why not to believe you with your questioning why paragraphs matter.
You are trying to claim you are right and I am wrong, which is indeed arguing with me. You again refuse to support your claims that I’m wrong. This is no surprise at all, and is just a continuation of your nonsense on my blog from before. I have not said at all that it doesn’t matter what other people say, and thank you for that lie to add to all of the other ones you’ve told. It does matter that what other people say is supported by evidence. Your claims are not.
That you don’t understand something is nothing new, Alex. That you think that since your bible occasionally repeats something already known as evidence for the bible being true is rather amusing. If this is the case, then most every “holy book” is as true as yours. I have no need to be gentle with a known liar. Oh darn, you are angry again. So what?
My “tactic” is to dismantle lies and harmful nonsense. I am definitely concerned with making a difference and increasing the well-being of people. I want them free of your cult and its false claims that some god disapproves of them and wants them to do exactly what Alex wants. I have no need to be “polite” to liars. I’m also not “polite” to other wannabee tyrants. I am quite happy to punch the nazi.
The murderer in Uvalde could have been bullied and rejected. Plenty of people are, including me, and have not murdered children. You are definitely trying to claim that if I dare tell you that your claims are false, I am the “cause” of the shooting. Sigh, how pathetic, Alex.
Billions look at the bible and don’t see the same thing you do, including your fellow Christians. I know you are praying that I’ll agree with you. I won’t. There are no positive things in the bible that can’t be found elsewhere without the genocide, child-killing and slavery. Your excuse for accepting things blindly is just another cultist bit of nonsense. There is no reason to trust your god at all, it doing nothing and having no evidence for its existence.
Oh this is a good one. “I don’t think that everyone who disagrees with me deserves hell, I believe that sinners deserve hell, and the only way to be saved is through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and I believe that as a Holy Perfect God, God has the right to punish those who disobey Him.”
Yep, a classic “I was just following orders” response. You do think that everyone who disagrees withyou is a ”sinner” and you do believe they deserve hell. Thanks for also underlining that your morality is nothing more than might equals right. Still no evidence for a holy or perfect god.
There is plenty of benefit knowing that I am better than someone who has sadistic fantasies that everyone who disagrees with him deserves eternal torture. I know you quite well from your very own writings, Alex. I am indeed judging you and your behavior on the harm you cause. There is nothing wrong with that at all. There is a problem when someone claims that some magical perfect being is doing the judging when it’s just the human doing it.
I know you said things you “really meant” in past interactions. It’s still all nonsense and you failed in your claims.
No one needs to email you or see your blog. It’s nothing different than the false claims you’ve made here.
It’s great that you repeatedly ask the same questions, as if you’ll get a different answer. You can read my origin story that you can find here in The Boss’s Office.
No evidence for this god, including for the supposed events it caused, so no belief that it is real. Do you believe in other gods, Alex? Why or why not? Would it be that there is no evidence for them?
I’ve spoken out against theists and theism, and I have had people tell me they are glad to hear someone speak out when they were afraid to do so.
And one more time: “your lies cause real harm.” For the reason why I speak out against religion. It’s hilarious that you have chosen to continue with lies like “mostly I find you just trying to dish the dirt on other people and raving about how everyone’s an idiot,” Oh do show where this is on my blog. I’ll be waiting for you to support your claims…. Again.
Okay, I agree, that me trying to sway you to my point of view is, technically, an argument. But what I mean is I am not here to fight with you. I understand that harm can be caused by religion but if you believe that then you must surely believe also that the things you say can harm someone. As, I’ve said before, you are free to believe whatever you want, even if it is untrue. For instance, that you know who I am based solely off a few things I’ve written on your blog. Not denying that I am a Christian who subscribes to the faith I promote, but how often do you look at my blog and all the things I’ve written here, if you haven’t than how can you know who I am? You are making a judgement based off of beliefs I have which you find to be stupid or, for some reason, offensive. Do I believe in other gods? Well I actually do enjoy mythology and like entertaining the idea that other gods were aliens or something, but it isn’t so much about believing in other gods as it is worshipping other gods. Bible says that God wants me to have no other God but Him, if you disagree that’s fine, but that is what I believe and I stand by it.
If you would like to look at a couple of things you have written which I feel support my claim that you are just writing about how bad everyone is, I linked a few below. All of the following contain in some shape or fashion insulting remarks or statements that were unnecessary or could’ve been dealt with differently.
There, evidence, if you choose to take it as such. I really hope you do rethink your entire operation, there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone; as a Christian I disagree with most people. Interestingly my religion has aided me here, because I believe everyone is a sinner and everyone is made in the image of God, so I’m able to see that even if I disagree with someone I’m no better than them and God can still use them if He pleases, so I still think people who disagree with me are important. I’m going to be perfectly honest your posts hurt me and I’m sure they hurt some other Christians or people who disagree with you. I understand that you don’t really think that’s important but I can’t see why anyone would think it’s okay. I know some people are going to get offended for no reason sometimes, but at the same time you have a lot of areas where you could improve or be more polite or sensitive. One more time: You can claim that religion causes real harm, and honestly, if used incorrectly, it can cause harm, but we have to separate what Christianity is from what Christianity isn’t. Christianity isn’t a title, it’s a way of life, so even people who say they are Christians aren’t really if they aren’t living it out. So, if you are truly, truly concerned about harm, then I would hope you would stop writing these things that demean people and hurt them. -AP
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ROFL. Yes, dear, you are here to argue with me. You have tried so very hard to claim I’m wrong. And you’ve failed with your false and baseless claims.
“I understand that harm can be caused by religion but if you believe that then you must surely believe also that the things you say can harm someone.” You again try to claim I’m harming someone. You by showing that your claims are false? Showing that you aren’t the one and only TrueChristian™? Too bad.
I am not free to believe whatever I would like to pretend is true. I am stuck with reality. And so are you. No evidence for your version of some silly god. No evidence for gods at all.
I do know quite a bit about you, and not from a “few things” written here. You’ve wrote quite a bit on this post, and in the ones in the past. You are just one more Christian who has invented his god in his image and thinks that only his version is right, just like the billions of others. I base my judgement off your actions here.
I do love your continued “oh why oh why do you think my religion to be disgusting”, when I have repeatedly shown why it is disgusting and offensive. Your religion, your holy book, has no problem with genocide, child killing, slavery, etc. That you *don’t* find these things offensive tells me a lot about you, Alex.
you don’t believe in other gods. If you call it mythology, that means you see them as make believe, just fairy tales. I call your nonsense mythology for the same reason. No evidence for gods, no belief from either of us. You believe in a lot of disgusting things and stand by them. Big whoop.
You then give a list of links to my own stuff. Yep, I am writing about how bad you and other Christians are. And no, there is no reason to have written them in any other way. Your religion is a lie, and Christians are liars, dependent on fear and willful ignorance to support their nonsense. You of course, won’t show how these things “could have been dealt with differently”, nor even mention a single instance. You just throw shit on the wall and hope it sticks. You’ve offered no evidence at all.
Again, you beg me to not show you as what you are and your religion as what it is. Not going to happen.
I know that you disagree with most people since you think that you and only you are “right”. You insist that everyone is a “sinner” because they disagree with you, and you pretend that this offends some imaginary being that agrees with you and only you. As for being made in the image of this god, Christians can’t even agree on what that means. You are indeed no better than anyone and worse than most.
I do enjoy when you say your god can use people. Oh dear, poof goes free will. Happily, your god doesn’t exist and uses no one.
You are upset that someone dares to disagree with your religion that is built on fear and hate. Oh darn, I’m as concerned as if a white supremacist whined that I hurt their fee-fees by stomping on their lies.
I don’t care what a liar like you thinks I could “improve”. I don’t need to be polite or sensitive to liars who try to gin up fear and increase ignorance so they can continue to feel special.
Religion causes harm, and not one of you can show you use it “correctly”. You again insist that only you have the TrueChristianty™, and no one else does. I’m still not impressed by a fraud. I am indeed “truly truly concerned about harm”, and this is why I’m still here.
Chrisitanity is a cult built on a collection of books that were written at different times, places and for different audiences. It is a mess of contradictory claims, and “context” can’t be used for the “whole bible” since none of these books were written to have been read together. If someone had only one gospel, they would come up with a different Christianity than the next person who has another. It is a set of nonsense that reflect the ignorance and tribalism from a couple of thousand years ago; the delusion that some god favors only certain people.
Christians have invented dozens, if not far more, versions of this religion since the supposed “word of god” is so incoherent. It deserves to be revealed, reviled and ridiculed. The very *very* few humane parts of it can be found elsewhere so the lunacy of genocide, child-killing, and telling slaves to never seek their freedom can be dumped on the trash pile of history.
Well, you know what they say, at least I tried 😉
And BTW, Captain America is a Christian.
No, you failed, Alex. Still no evidence for your nonsense, and no evidence for your lies about me.
Cap is an imaginary character. He is depicted as Christian since historically, he would have a very high probability of being so in early 1900s US. He is also a good man despite the claims in the bible to not raise a hand to one’s enemies. Cap ignores your bible nonsense. One would also have to wonder what Cap thinks about Christianity now that he’s met gods, and seen that no god stopped Thanos.
“38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you: Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also, 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, give your coat as well, 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.” Matthew 5
You fail again, Alex.
Well, you know what they say, at least I tried.
And BTW, Captain America is a Christian.
Oh look, Alex chose to repeat the same fail an hour and 20 minutes after the first.
I actually think that is some sort of error. I know I sent the first message but when I checked later it told me I hadn’t, so I sent it again; I think there must be something going on with the comments because on my end, I sometimes can’t see comments I published on until hours later.
that may be. You will now be experiencing delays since your comments are in automatic moderation. They will be released as I review them.
The very fact that Alexander believes that anyone at all “deserves” hell tells me everything I need to know about him. He’s just Religious Torture-Pr0n Junkie #15,234. (heavy sigh)
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agreed. a cult that is all about this torture nonsense is rather pathetic.